Looming north korean threat

[Pale Rider]

"Trump will be ‘deposed immediately’ if he blocks trade with China over N. Korea – Assange"
That's just a stupid statement from Assange. There is no mechanism in place to immediately depose a U.S. President. Impeachment takes a while, and is not likely to happen, anyway.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

North Korea planning ANOTHER nuke test and ballistic missile launch towards the Pacific as Kim Jong-un vows to 'reduce South Korea to ashes' over Seoul's missile drills

I kind of hope I'm wrong about NK and they are stupid enough to do what I am sure they aren't: launch a missile toward Guam. They could even launch one over SK just for grins, or one over Japan (except make it tokyo). At that point the fireworks begin.

This is a country working aggressively toward nukes, testing them, and threatening to annihilate multiple countries. I can't believe we let this spoiled child get to this stage.

Wow. He just keeps doubling down at the table.

I'm with you and I seriously hope he keeps going. I think its the only way to force us to stop him.

Fat man is out of his mind. This is what happens when a spoiled brat who thinks he's a living God, who has never been told "no" , and now has the power of nuclear weapons at his finger tips. He needs to stop being alive already.

 

[holdover]

This guy is terribly miscalculating the resolve of the US. China is the only country that can slow them down. China certainly doesn't want a war with the US , that's like killing your employer. They have to stop him or a lot of people are going to die.

Diplomacy failed, bribery failed, sanctions failed ,warnings failed. The US is out of options , and now their credibility is on the line.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Has me wondering (as futile as that is), if this goes hot this week, how it will go down. Will we be hit immediately with an EMP? Will it be localized to the region? I just wonder because I'm going camping this weekend and I don't want to get stuck away from my gear and family.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Has me wondering (as futile as that is), if this goes hot this week, how it will go down. Will we be hit immediately with an EMP? Will it be localized to the region? I just wonder because I'm going camping this weekend and I don't want to get stuck away from my gear and family.

this is just my opinion on reading the situation, but I heard someone here refer to a great term (sorry forgot who said it), but if Kim knows he's going down he will freak out with the ultimate rage quit. He will lash out at anyone he can with everything he can and damn the consequences.

A rage quit is a video game term for someone who is losing and gets pissed off yells and turns off the game killing the lobby off for the other players so they have to start a new match.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

This is a fairly quick video that is worth a listen to

 

[ArmedCorgi]

This is what Kim wants. He is going to get what he wants.

 

[holdover]

Has me wondering (as futile as that is), if this goes hot this week, how it will go down. Will we be hit immediately with an EMP? Will it be localized to the region? I just wonder because I'm going camping this weekend and I don't want to get stuck away from my gear and family.

I highly doubt You have anything to worry about. Most of his bombs are atomic that we know, of 35-40 % failure rate. None of them are extreme range ICBMS , A lot of that is media fear porn. He may have a handful of older soviet Hydrogen bombs ""lost" during the collapse of the soviet union that can reach the west coast. An EMP would be localized with the smaller bombs to one or two county's if that. These arnt the big boys like SU has. and even those would take multiple strikes across the country to really do some damage. A first strike against NK using tactical nukes should get most of them at least 60 to 75 %,a US emp attack across the country should get even more , , 35% of those will fail on launch , an unknown amount will fail due to electronic counter measures and fly blind , Thadd missiles in SK might get a few more , Thadd missiles deployed across the pacific will get a few more . Last ditch anti missiles here at home might get a few ,airborne lasers over the target may get a few, a few might get through to the west coast or even the Midwest .and the accuracy of his missiles is in question, I doubt his submarine force lasts more than 24-48 hours if that, as they are being tracked right now. South Korea and Japan will suffer greatly , The 30,000 US forces on the border will be vaporized , Seoul will most likely be gone.

The question is how many does he have? a few dozen wouldn't cut it. a hundred or more is do-able, more than that and we could have problems , There is only so many missiles and so many misses before you start to run low on ammo. a preemptive strike along with with emps should get most of them on the ground some will fail, and some have to run a gauntlet of defenses . A few might get through . Highly doubt enough to destroy the country .

Theres also a chance that we have a few classified space based systems that we don't know about.

 

[holdover]

I think the seal may be mistaken , I think the US will go with tac nukes from the get go , it would be stupid and dangerous to allow him a chance to strike back. Guess what hes gonna do? you know it, I know it . Hes going to launch any missiles he has left , what do you gain? All risk with a small chance of success .Not worth the chance, go big or go home.

 

[holdover]

U.S. United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley is escalating the rhetoric from Trump's "we'll see" comment and aggressive tweets as she tells an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council, that "enough is enough" and that North Korea's leader, Kim Jong Un, is "begging for war" with his "abusive use of missiles."

“The time for half measures in the security council is over. The time has come to exhaust all of our diplomatic means before it is too late.

We must now adopt the strongest possible measures. Kim Jong Un’s action cannot be seen as defensive.”

"We have taken an incremental approach, and despite the best intentions, it hasn't worked."

"War is never something the United States wants, we don't want it now, but our people's patience is not unlimited."

"We have kicked the can down the road long enough. There is no road left."

North Korea Is "Begging For War": Haley Tells UN "The Time For Half-Measures Is Over" | Zero Hedge

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

U.S. United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley is escalating the rhetoric from Trump's "we'll see" comment and aggressive tweets as she tells an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council, that "enough is enough" and that North Korea's leader, Kim Jong Un, is "begging for war" with his "abusive use of missiles."

“The time for half measures in the security council is over. The time has come to exhaust all of our diplomatic means before it is too late.

We must now adopt the strongest possible measures. Kim Jong Un’s action cannot be seen as defensive.”

"We have taken an incremental approach, and despite the best intentions, it hasn't worked."

"War is never something the United States wants, we don't want it now, but our people's patience is not unlimited."

"We have kicked the can down the road long enough. There is no road left."

North Korea Is "Begging For War": Haley Tells UN "The Time For Half-Measures Is Over" | Zero Hedge

Not much left to "say" after that anymore.

Us nygunforum members might as well be strategic consultants. We should go start a crowd funded think tank and sell our services and analysis for mucho bucks to the Washington types. We consistently are ahead of the curve

 

[holdover]

CNN
· [URL='https://www.facebook.com/cnn/posts/10151529921521509']March 11, 2013 ·


BREAKING NEWS: North Korea army has declared invalid the armistice agreement that ended the Korean War in 1953, an official North Korean newspaper reports.
http://on.cnn.com/QZYZDc
[/URL]

 

[Blimey]

Has me wondering (as futile as that is), if this goes hot this week, how it will go down. Will we be hit immediately with an EMP? Will it be localized to the region? I just wonder because I'm going camping this weekend and I don't want to get stuck away from my gear and family.

I still don't think NK can do anything to CONUS. I know there is a thread about a NK EMP but I am not buying it. At this moment they can't do anything. That could change soon at the rate they are going. They are on the home leg of this journey of theirs.

he's going down he will freak out with the ultimate rage quit.

I think it was me Rage-quit is absolutely an awesome term for what Kim would do if he truly believed it was over for him. Insane leaders do have a history of being killed by those around them, though. The generals around him cannot all be ignorant about how things are going to go down.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

CNN
· March 11, 2013 ·


BREAKING NEWS: North Korea army has declared invalid the armistice agreement that ended the Korean War in 1953, an official North Korean newspaper reports.
http://on.cnn.com/QZYZDc

What's this then? It says it's from 2013.

 

[holdover]

Good catch I didn't check that , I looked up breaking news , and I got fake news from our friends at CIA I mean CNN

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

This a very obscure news agency I've never heard of, so good chance this is fake news

But if nothing else it's quite an interesting take on this crisis

If North Korea Has Nuclear ICBM, China WILL Invade by 9/11

 

[cgrutt]

This a very obscure news agency I've never heard of, so blood chance this is fake news

But if nothing else it's quite an interesting take on this crisis

If North Korea Has Nuclear ICBM, China WILL Invade by 9/11

Nope, can't be fake news. says right on home screen Tru News, LOL...

 

[livingston]

Condoleezza Rice Backs Trump's 'Bleak Picture' Strategy on NKorea
Former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Saturday that she backed the Trump White House in "painting a very bleak picture for the Chinese" about North Korea as tensions increase over its nuclear ambitions.

"I don't think any American president can tolerate that leader with the capacity to reach the United States," said Rice, referring to dictator Kim Jong Un, The Hill reports.

Rice, 62, who served in the George W. Bush administration, made her comments at the Library of Congress' Book Festival in Washington.

"What the administration is trying to do — and I support what they're trying to do — is they're painting a very bleak picture for the Chinese," she said. "That's the only country with any real leverage on the North Koreans."


Rice explained that Beijing remains reluctant to intervene out of fears North Korea could collapse and create a refugee crisis on their border, the Hill reports.

Her comments came before the state-run KCNA news agency reported that Pyongyang had developed a more advanced nuclear weapon and that Kim had inspected a hydrogen bomb that could be loaded onto a new intercontinental ballistic missile.


Rice also referenced Kim's threats last month to fire missiles off Guam, which brought a strong response from President Donald Trump .
"At some point the American president — and I'm not inside, so don't know what he's being told about how long he has — but at some point if you're threatening Guam and already firing missiles over Japan, we're getting pretty close to a denouement," she said.

"We're getting pretty close to a president having to make a decision."
Condoleezza Rice Backs Trump's 'Bleak Picture' Strategy on NKorea

 

[Robin]

Something will be done. What it is(?), dunno. We, the United States, have too many cards on the table to back down now.
Robin

 

[Frankly]

It's pretty funny that people who have posted hundreds of memes over fake news and how the media outright lies and invents stories about Trump and the Right... will automatically assume everything they read about North Korea is true.

How do we know anything?

It's not even apparent that anyone understands how much or how little influence China has over North Korea. We certainly don't know what clandestine operations have been going on. Or whether two of the most technologically advanced countries (S Korea and Japan) have their own nuclear deterrents that aren't public. We don't really know how China will respond and we don't know much about North Korea at all. Then we have NeoCon Cucks like McCain calling for war, Defense Contractors raking in the bucks, and sailors unable to steer battleships.... Then armchair strategists chime in and try to explain how having US troops in South Korea act as a deterrent to China and Russia, keeping shipping lanes open to increase our trade deficit and other illogical counteractions that make no sense other than that they exist.

In other words Trump, as commander in chief probably doesn't have a handle on the situation (I'm guessing) and whatever filters through our corrupt media is totally biased towards whomever is profiting or conniving.

If you look at it from the North Korean perspective they're completely surrounded by hostile nations who have been playing war games and maneuvering for invasion right outside their borders. If you were them you'd want a nuclear deterrent too.

Realistically this is probably much a do about nothing, mutually assured destruction is a great motivator for peace. Kim probably is not crazy, he simply wants to hold onto power.

When you experts figure this out please tell us who to fight for and against in the Middle East, I'm sure the internet provides truthful insightful material f0r you to base your assumptions on ;-p

 

[holdover]

Are you saying?
They didnt explode nukes?
They didn't launch missiles?
They didn't take our money in 98 to not build nukes?
They didn't fly a missile over Japan?
They didn't Threaten to hit Guam?
They didn't tear up the truce agreement?
They are not allies with China since the Korean war ? and China spilled their blood on their soil to help save them?
China and North Korea are not communists?
China and North Korea are not Allies?
China and North Korea are not tradeing partners?

what are you saying specifically?



Ive been bitching about fake news since Desert storm , I know for a fact that the government lies to us . But a lot of what is happening is based on factual events Such as the Chinese Assault on US troops in the Korean war in 52 . If your saying that the reasons may be deeper than we are allowed to know, I'll give you some merit for that , that's very possible. If your saying that China will throw them under the bus for American dollars, I say maybe, maybe not, we shall see. the Asian sense of honor goes beyond their own personal well being.

The only thing we are doing here is discussing current events and the possible outcomes , the pros and cons of the possible responses . I don't think any of us are calling ourselves ""experts"" and if you think something is wrong or inaccurate you should respond as such .

""Realistically this is probably much a do about nothing, mutually assured destruction is a great motivator for peace""

I don't think you seem to grasp the situation from North Koreas perspective. They have seen the US lose in Vietnam they have seen the US still fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan after 17 years, they see the US pull out of Somalia , they see the US hiring mercenaries in Syria, They perceive the US as a weak nation , not capable of beating goat herders in the mountains, not excepting massive casualties, or avoiding civilian deaths . they see low public support tired of fighting wars. they saw how China pushed back the UN forces in Korea past the 38th Parallel , they see the US as avoiding any confrontation with Russia or China as weak,

They perceive that the US will never Start a war with China and since they are allies with China, they see any US threat and bogus bullshit from a weak nation. Even now, the US is pressuring China to turn the screws on them . All these actions vindicate their beliefs that the US is weak and wont fight. As a result , they are thumbing their noses at the US with 100% confidence that the US will not attack them .

That's where NK is getting its balls from . Personally I think its a massive miscalculation on their part, I wont know until its over. But feel free to jump in and give a counter point. just scolding people for discussing current events doesn't help anything.

 

[masterswimmer]

Are you saying?
They didnt explode nukes?
They didn't launch missiles?
They didn't take our money in 98 to not build nukes?
They didn't fly a missile over Japan?
They didn't Threaten to hit Guam?
They didn't tear up the truce agreement?
They are not allies with China since the Korean war ? and China spilled their blood on their soil to help save them?
China and North Korea are not communists?
China and North Korea are not Allies?
China and North Korea are not tradeing partners?

what are you saying specifically?



Ive been bitching about fake news since Desert storm , I know for a fact that the government lies to us . But a lot of what is happening is based on factual events Such as the Chinese Assault on US troops in the Korean war in 52 . If your saying that the reasons may be deeper than we are allowed to know, I'll give you some merit for that , that's very possible. If your saying that China will throw them under the bus for American dollars, I say maybe, maybe not, we shall see. the Asian sense of honor goes beyond their own personal well being.

The only thing we are doing here is discussing current events and the possible outcomes , the pros and cons of the possible responses . I don't think any of us are calling ourselves ""experts"" and if you think something is wrong or inaccurate you should respond as such .

""Realistically this is probably much a do about nothing, mutually assured destruction is a great motivator for peace""

I don't think you seem to grasp the situation from North Koreas perspective. They have seen the US lose in Vietnam they have seen the US still fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan after 17 years, they see the US pull out of Somalia , they see the US hiring mercenaries in Syria, They perceive the US as a weak nation , not capable of beating goat herders in the mountains, not excepting massive casualties, or avoiding civilian deaths . they see low public support tired of fighting wars. they saw how China pushed back the UN forces in Korea past the 38th Parallel , they see the US as avoiding any confrontation with Russia or China as weak,

They perceive that the US will never Start a war with China and since they are allies with China, they see any US threat and bogus bullshit from a weak nation. Even now, the US is pressuring China to turn the screws on them . All these actions vindicate their beliefs that the US is weak and wont fight. As a result , they are thumbing their noses at the US with 100% confidence that the US will not attack them .

That's where NK is getting its balls from . Personally I think its a massive miscalculation on their part, I wont know until its over. But feel free to jump in and give a counter point. just scolding people for discussing current events doesn't help anything.

 

[Frankly]

Are you saying?
They didnt explode nukes?
They didn't launch missiles?
They didn't take our money in 98 to not build nukes?
They didn't fly a missile over Japan?
They didn't Threaten to hit Guam?
They didn't tear up the truce agreement?
They are not allies with China since the Korean war ? and China spilled their blood on their soil to help save them?
China and North Korea are not communists?
China and North Korea are not Allies?
China and North Korea are not tradeing partners?

what are you saying specifically?



Ive been bitching about fake news since Desert storm , I know for a fact that the government lies to us . But a lot of what is happening is based on factual events Such as the Chinese Assault on US troops in the Korean war in 52 . If your saying that the reasons may be deeper than we are allowed to know, I'll give you some merit for that , that's very possible. If your saying that China will throw them under the bus for American dollars, I say maybe, maybe not, we shall see. the Asian sense of honor goes beyond their own personal well being.

The only thing we are doing here is discussing current events and the possible outcomes , the pros and cons of the possible responses . I don't think any of us are calling ourselves ""experts"" and if you think something is wrong or inaccurate you should respond as such .

""Realistically this is probably much a do about nothing, mutually assured destruction is a great motivator for peace""

I don't think you seem to grasp the situation from North Koreas perspective. They have seen the US lose in Vietnam they have seen the US still fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan after 17 years, they see the US pull out of Somalia , they see the US hiring mercenaries in Syria, They perceive the US as a weak nation , not capable of beating goat herders in the mountains, not excepting massive casualties, or avoiding civilian deaths . they see low public support tired of fighting wars. they saw how China pushed back the UN forces in Korea past the 38th Parallel , they see the US as avoiding any confrontation with Russia or China as weak,

They perceive that the US will never Start a war with China and since they are allies with China, they see any US threat and bogus bullshit from a weak nation. Even now, the US is pressuring China to turn the screws on them . All these actions vindicate their beliefs that the US is weak and wont fight. As a result , they are thumbing their noses at the US with 100% confidence that the US will not attack them .

That's where NK is getting its balls from . Personally I think its a massive miscalculation on their part, I wont know until its over. But feel free to jump in and give a counter point. just scolding people for discussing current events doesn't help anything.

I bet nobody does anything... and we are weak, we have no solution for NK.

If I was Kim and saw the US military conducting provacative war games just over my border I'd launch demonstration missiles too.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Nothing we don't already know, but its in the news again. Millions of American lives could be at stake as North Korea threatens to attack power grid

 

[tirwin1]

Here is a depressing read - an interview with someone that used to teach in North Korea.

Undercover in North Korea: “All Paths Lead to Catastrophe”

I firmly believe that north korea will never give up its quest to become a nuclear power. It is all a matter of regime survival. The fat boy saw what happened to saddam hussein and khadafi in Libya and is determined not to be next.

There are those that say a nuclear north korea poses little threat and the doctrine of mutual assured destruction will keep north korea from ever using their nukes except if they are invaded. I am not entirely convinced of that. North korea may be working on its own plan for re-unification that involves the use of lethal and non-lethal biological weapons and a rapid invasion. Their nuclear weapons would be used as a deterrent against any expansion of the conflict by the united states. It doesn't matter if we think that scenario is unlikely. What matters is if the north koreans actually believe it. That is a significant problem, because no one really knows what goes on in the ruling circle of north korea.

I am not in favor of going to war to stop north korea, but I concede there are sufficient risks with that country obtaining nuclear weapons that others may disagree.

 

[holdover]

I bet nobody does anything... and we are weak, we have no solution for NK.

If I was Kim and saw the US military conducting provacative war games just over my border I'd launch demonstration missiles too.

Well that's a legitimate point of view that which does not require Being an expert.

To some extent your right. our peace time military does not have the man power to fight a large scale conventional war and maintain all of its forces over sea, we simply do not have the available trained troops at this time. Our missile defenses are not up to speed , something like 50 60% kill ratio.

On the other hand , We have phenomenal air power, in large numbers, thousands of cruise missiles , a dozen aircraft carriers , tactical nukes and the South Korean army and air force.

Were facing a large highly motivated enemy which is under equipped with older aircraft which cannot compete using older soviet armor .

My "non expert ""opinion is that your probably right as far attacking North Korea. EXCEPT if they start launching over Guam or Japan . Nobody is going to tolerate that kind of irresponsible behavior .That is unacceptable by anybody standards I believe that the US threat is very real and I wouldn't take it lightly . They would be hit with several hundred tactical nukes ,EMP attacks, cyber attacks ,.thier power grids would be attacked their command and control would be attacked their Head quarters would be attacked , fuel and ammo dumps airfields would be attacked , their communication systems would be attacked , on the first night . they would be hit with thousands of standard cruise missiles, In less than 24 hours, North Korea would be crippled , and probably not be able to carry out effective offensive operations in the south.

If China jumps in it would eventually end up being a full blown nuclear war. which is another reason NK believes the US wont attack.

 

[Robin]

Well Frankly, if he wasn't threatening other countries with destruction on a weekly basis maybe he wouldn't have war games being played out in his AO. To try to equate him to some kind of rational leader is madness itself.
robin

 

[Frankly]

Please remember I'm not sticking up for the guy. But imagine it from his perspective... you're born into this family, you need to take power and kill your adversaries (even family members) lest you be killed yourself (as the British royal family did not long ago). Then you're in charge of a poor country with starving people, limited infrastructure and a feudal economy... surrounded by hostile high tech neighbors who hate you. Even China hates the Kims, NK is a boil on their arse.

Given reality he's behaved rationally. What would you do in his situation?

If he shows weakness he's toast. If he pushes too far then it's lights out. So far he's brilliant for staying alive and keeping the gigantic house of cards upright.

It's in everyone's interest to maintain the status quo. South Korea and China don't want to deal with millions of useless North Korean refugees. We don't have a military response that doesn't create a worse humanitarian crisis.

The threat of having nukes or other weapons of mass destruction maintains the peace. Japan and South Korea already have them or could build them in short order. The only real issue is keeping nukes out of terrorist hands... which is a moot point. There are several other places for terrorists to buy weapons, it is only our threat of retaliation against Pakistan, Iran, etc. that keeps them from being used. Negotiations or worse blowing up nuclear facilities does little to nothing to keep us safe because there are multiple nodes... we can't kill every rogue physicist or hide the knowledge forever.

Knock on wood all a terrorist has to do is dump some medical nuclear waste in the street, kill a dozen people and it'll cost us trillions in response. You don't need an ICBM or centrifuges.

All this is posturing so everyone's military gets more funding. All the generals and contractors win. You get the privilege to pay for it. If we really cared about peace and safety we'd come home and build the wall and a 200 miles offshore border, deport everyone possible, and enforce real security measures starting with closing colleges and killing our domestic Commies.

 

[Robin]

I think your whole premise is a gross mischaracterization of the way thing truly are.
Robin

 

[wizrd]

There are different types of 'news' -- regarding the Korean thing, - and you can be sure we are unaware of the truth of what is happening. There's misleading news, fake news, filtered news, partial news, published news, no news that the 'spin doctors' haven't thoroughly re-worked. -- ....and you think you're fully informed. Do you remember the several dump-truck loads of cyanide that were intercepted in a secret tunnel through the mountains, destined for South Korea's water supply at the Korean DMZ zone just before the start of their 1988 Olympics? -- Do you remember the pictures of piles of bodies of North Korean military that were killed trying to overun the DMZ zone just before the 1988 Olympics start?, ( we are talking piles of bodies the size of a modern raised ranch home, and there were actually dozens and dozens of piles.) Try to google those pictures - to see if they're 'REAL' -- you won't find them - never reported, never published, only our military knows the truth. I've seen the pictures - they are real - and shown to me by military men who were there - "and have seen the elephant!" .....just saying. We, as a country - don't really know what the hell is really happening.