Looming north korean threat

[Mosinitis]

Our resident, self proclaimed expert has spoken!

The information is out there for those who are uninformed. Intestinal worms are repulsive, but in overwhelming majority of cases they are not dangerous and very common in large part of the world. On the other hand we are fed pesticides, hormones, chemical fertilizers and what not. I can guarantee you incidents of cancer of digestional tract in NK is only a fraction of what it is here.
Is this the best they could find for our propaganda to hit NK with? It only makes us look like ignorant idiots grasping at straws.

 

[Mosinitis]

Turn on your TV and look at what is being said about Trump and his mental state. Unlike foreign leaders, Trump can get in his side of the story, there is a debate and a process to seek the truth. When it comes to coverage of foreign leaders, it's 100% propaganda with no opportunity to hear the other side and come to an informed conclusion.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

He didn't attack or invaded anyone, you listen to propaganda and think you are informed.

Well we can agree to disagree.


I think He's a full out psycopath.

He willfully starved his own people, has forced space labor concentration camps, executes people in extremely gruesome ways including anti aircraft guns, fed to starving dogs and used freaking VX nerve agent. He regularly threatened to nuke America or American territory.

He cannot have nukes.

 

[Blimey]

A blockade is an act of war. I wonder how one would be received by China and Russia?

What is shooting an ICBM over another country?

There are lots of acts of wars. They are almost like "acts of terror". So encompassing to not really mean much.

 

[Blimey]

Every foreign leader we have a dispute with is a madman, evil dictator and murderer of his people.

In this case the last two bits really are true. He's not mad, but he is evil, and he is a murderer (mass) of his people. The entire world knows this. It's a settled matter. To the best of my knowledge none of the many thousands of north koreans who have risked their lives to escape have ever escaped and painted a positive picture of the country. They are all escaping at risk of death or imprisonment for a reason and they all have lots of awful things to say.

Everyone who lived on the farm there has worms. It's pretty common, but our propaganda reports it's a sign of poor diet. Where the fuck did they get this from? This is just one small example of how we are propagandized.

Here's a good start. Are North Koreans really three inches shorter than South Koreans?

 

[ArmedCorgi]

What is shooting an ICBM over another country?

There are lots of acts of wars. They are almost like "acts of terror". So encompassing to not really mean much.

It seemed to mean something in 62. So much so they renamed it, sold it as a quarentine.

Agreed, firing missiles over another country should not be tolerated. It makes me question whether or not we'd actually do anything if they launched over or near Guam.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Just remember NK and Iran share technology and development. whatever one has the other already does or will have shortly. not to mention they would both be willing to sell this technology to others who would love to use it against us.

 

[Mosinitis]

North Koreans shown by our media are healthy looking and fit, on the other hand half of the women (and men) in the the middle America don't even have a figure. Lets have a debate on which is better; eating food filled with growth hormones or food grown with natural fertilizers, but just because that's how they do it doesn't make their leader evil. The world doesn't live by our standards. Our rockets and satellites routinely fly over other countries, country's air space is not without outer limits.

 

[Mosinitis]

Just remember NK and Iran share technology and development. whatever one has the other already does or will have shortly. not to mention they would both be willing to sell this technology to others who would love to use it against us.

Who did Iran or NK sold their nuclear technology to? This bullshit is repeated over and over without a shred of evidence, just like the domino theory from the past. We are leading the world in whipping up idiotic hysterias and when we are proven wrong and thousands of dead and maimed later (ours and theirs), no one even has the decency to admit we were wrong, much less hold anyone accountable.

 

[livingston]

ENOUGH: Trump, Xi Hold Emergency Talks After Kim’s ICBM Launch
President Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping held emergency talks Tuesday evening following North Korea’s successful launch of an ICBM; with both leaders vowing even harsher sanctions against the rogue regime as Kim continues to advance his nuclear weapons program.
The White House released a statement regarding the two leaders’ conversation hours after Kim sent a long-range, ballistic missile into earth’s orbit, saying “President Trump underscored the determination of the United States to defend itself.”


"President Trump underscored the determination of the United States to defend ourselves and our allies from the growing threat posed by the North Korean regime," said the statement. "President Trump emphasized the need for China to use all available levers to convince North Korea to end its provocations and return to the path of denuclearization."

more at ...
ENOUGH: Trump, Xi Hold Emergency Talks After Kim’s ICBM Launch | The Sean Hannity Show

 

[holdover]

What is shooting an ICBM over another country?

There are lots of acts of wars. They are almost like "acts of terror". So encompassing to not really mean much.

These two are not even remotely connected. One was a missile test, which is an antagonizing or provocative event, Unlawful and wrong .the other seeks to destroy the economy and bring down the government of that nation by force. Which means turning away trade vessels at gunpoint cutting off its supplies .

the Mexican army fireing one artillery shell over the border is not justification to go to war.

A blockade will eventually provoke the north Koreans to attack, they will have no other choice. And if they try to break the blockade , and sink an American carrier with a nuke, kill 5000 sailors, the people in this country will go freaking berserk , jumping up and down demanding that the entire peninsula be burned to a crisp. The US has given North korea no options , comply or die. That's about it in a nutshell. 25 years of failed talks and bribes didn't work . A blockade is the use of force , and the US has thrown the first punch .

Kim has all the justification in the world under international law to attack US forces blockading their country. If Russia and China began an oil blockade of the US by use of force , the US would respond in a devastating way.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

These two are not even remotely connected. One was a missile test, which is an antagonizing or provocative event, Unlawful and wrong .the other seeks to destroy the economy and bring down the government of that nation by force. Which means turning away trade vessels at gunpoint cutting off its supplies .

the Mexican army fireing one artillery shell over the border is not justification to go to war.

A blockade will eventually provoke the north Koreans to attack, they will have no other choice. And if they try to break the blockade , and sink an American carrier with a nuke, kill 5000 sailors, the people in this country will go freaking berserk , jumping up and down demanding that the entire peninsula be burned to a crisp. The US has given North korea no options , comply or die. That's about it in a nutshell. 25 years of failed talks and bribes didn't work . A blockade is the use of force , and the US has thrown the first punch .

Kim has all the justification in the world under international law to attack US forces blockading their country. If Russia and China began an oil blockade of the US by use of force , the US would respond in a devastating way.

I agree with your assessment. When I read the story regarding the upcoming naval blocade, my first reaction was, well...one way or another this issue will be forced to run its course. It's no longer status quo. We will force NKs hand one way or the other.

The way I see it is they have 3 options

Option 1 they will either comply, back down, stop their testing and denuclearize. (preferred outcome, also the least likely)
Option 2a. they will try to go thru the blockade daring us to sink their ships to give themselves the perceived moral high ground before they retaliate
Option 2b. they will pre emptively launch the first strike a la Japan in 1941


The Days of kicking the can down the road for future generations to deal with must be over. Clinton, W and Obama all failed us. We have been let down and now we have to pay up ten fold for the previous presidents ignoring, condoning and placating the North koreabs, now the stakes are exponentially higher.



My fist thought of this embargo/blockade wasn't of the cuban missile crisis but more of Japan in 1940. Japan was backed into a corner and felt they had to strike us first for their long term survival. We know how that turned out.
ABCD line - Wikipedia

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Might be nothing.... But could mean something. Might be a piece of the puzzle.

Does Russia know there is an imminent war about to break out?

Interesting document to leak out...

Russia is telling Siberian schools to prep for work in times of war

 

[Mosinitis]

Russia has its tragic history of being unprepared for war. They are determined to never let that happen again. This is just another program towards that end, I don't think this is due to a current situation. That being said our military build up on their former territory and creation of hostile states on their boarders don't go unnoticed.

 

[GOPerfect]

The ignorance is strong with some in this thread!!!

 

[Mosinitis]

Got to love the video at that link. We hold military exercises in the Baltics, which was a part of the Soviet Union, pre-Soviet Russia and that's ok. It's not even in our hemisphere. Russians hold military exercises inside their boarders and it is depicted as aggressive and provocative. How dare Russians place their country in between our military bases.

 

[Blimey]

North Koreans shown by our media are healthy looking and fit, on the other hand half of the women (and men) in the the middle America don't even have a figure. Lets have a debate on which is better; eating food filled with growth hormones or food grown with natural fertilizers, but just because that's how they do it doesn't make their leader evil. The world doesn't live by our standards. Our rockets and satellites routinely fly over other countries, country's air space is not without outer limits.

I want to be clear about the intent of your post: are you saying the nutrition of people in North Korea is at least as good, and perhaps even better, than that of people in America?

 

[Blimey]

The Days of kicking the can down the road for future generations to deal with must be over. Clinton, W and Obama all failed us. We have been let down and now we have to pay up ten fold for the previous presidents ignoring, condoning and placating the North koreabs, now the stakes are exponentially higher.

Yep, but we are doing nothing different now. Trump is coming up on a year in office and NK's nuclear program has never been better. He's made some ground with sanctions, but those are clearly not doing anything.

I maintain my belief that the US will eventually give up on this and accept a nuclear north korea. Oh, it may resist diplomatic relationships for years, if not decades (like it has done with Cuba), but North Korea will have a passable nuclear fleet in the next few years and we are not going to do what needs to be done to stop it. If we were going to we would have a long time ago. It's not going to happen. Would have been easier 2 years ago, even more so 5, or 10. Nobody did it. Their missiles work okay now, so next step they may need to test a complete missile:

1) Launch (already no problem for them)
2) Reentry (who knows)
3) Detonation (probably no issue at this point)

Once NK shoots a missile up high like they did this week and brings it down and detonates it successfully, they can then immediately announce that they have another half dozen missiles that can do the same thing, so nobody better touch them. At that point it's check mate. Nobody will do anything, no chance of it.

So here's the deal. When this happens: What happens if North Korea tests a hydrogen bomb over the Pacific? - CNN They've won.

 

[Mosinitis]

I want to be clear about the intent of your post: are you saying the nutrition of people in North Korea is at least as good, and perhaps even better, than that of people in America?

My point was well made and I am going to leave it at that.

 

[Automan21]

There should be a poll thread. Who says level NK? I bet more than 70% here say do it. I’m one of them.

 

[holdover]

I don't think the US is going to do it either. You have to do an assessment the way you do it for business, what are the costs and how long will it take to recoop our investments? Is it worth it?

North and south Korea will be decimated. a 50 50 chance of losing an American city or more. probably in the area of 1 million or more Korean dead , the possibility of trapping the Chinese into a nuclear war. probably around 30,000 or more US servicemen dead and the expense for the war , vs what do we get in return? A unified North Korea with a guerrilla war launched from the safe havens of China and Russia? some peace of mind knowing they cant launch an attack?

Im not a pacifist, but I don't see any real gain that's worth the cost.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

HR McMaster claims nuclear war increases with possibility | Daily Mail Online

I go back and forth trying to figure out if we will use the military options to stop NK, or if it's all a bluff and were just awaiting the inevitable of accepting NK as a fully fleged nuclear power.

 

[holdover]

Is the US willing to fight a nuclear war to prevent a nuclear war? I don't know, but that's the kind of situation were in.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Is the US willing to fight a nuclear war to prevent a nuclear war? I don't know, but that's the kind of situation were in.

I think it more likely we will fight a conventional/asymmetrical war trying to prevent nuclear war but it will end up causing a nuclear war. We would be dumb to go in using nukes right off the bat.

 

[Robin]

I don't know about that. Properly planned and executed this regime could be taken down with no nukes fired from our side and no nukes allowed lift off from their side. We would have to be willing to let on to the rest of the world weapons heretofore un acknowledged, but the diciest part would be keeping everything secret til we were ready to act, with all the deep state politicized government agencies, including the military, that would be a huge problem.
Robin

 

[holdover]

Seriously? You think Kim is going to just sit there and get his ass kicked? He's going full nuclear as soon as realizes we are attacking. Now, if you are pretty certain he will respond with nukes as Im sure he will, It would be rather foolish NOT to use Nukes first . I would guess that the standing orders for the NK army are in the event that Kim is killed by an airstrike or if the US attacks, to launch everything they have.

I would be pretty certain we would not use the giant city killers, but the small tactical nukes .

 

[ArmedCorgi]

I would think that Kim's best play would be the EMP route.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Seriously? You think Kim is going to just sit there and get his ass kicked? He's going full nuclear as soon as realizes we are attacking. Now, if you are pretty certain he will respond with nukes as Im sure he will, It would be rather foolish NOT to use Nukes first . I would guess that the standing orders for the NK army are in the event that Kim is killed by an airstrike or if the US attacks, to launch everything they have.

I would be pretty certain we would not use the giant city killers, but the small tactical nukes .

Kim would use ANY weapon available to save his sorry ass.

I'm not a tactics guru but realistically we only have 20 B2s in our entire inventory. These would be the ideal first strike weapon. Of those 20, probably on a best day only 13-15 (some are in testing squadrons at nellis, probably some in maintenance) so only 13 to 15 would actually be available for missions. They have a considerable amount of conventional or nuclear payload capability, but you would ABSOLUTELY need to be certain they can wipe out all nuclear capabilities with conventional munitions before the unrelenting swarms of cruise missiles, B1s, ah64s, other fighters and aircraft etc get picked up on radar. As soon as he knows we are coming for him he will go weapons free releasing anything he can to save his sorry ass in the world's greatest rage quit.

I know we must have some cool toys in our back pocket that could be unleashed as well. (stealth drones, helicopters etc)


If you can't be certain you can anhilate his nuclear capability before he can launch it then I think you have to use tactical nukes or there is considerable risk that nukes are hitting SK, japan, hawaii, alaska, conus etc.. In addition to conventional nukes you have to take the threat of EMP seriously (Kim even specifically mentioned it in his media release a few months ago) and that some of his rockets will be armed with chemical, biological, nerve agents.

EMPs over SK, Japan, hawaii, western US, along with a few random nuke strikes and chemical/biological/nerve attacks would be horrific...... The real winner would be china if they came out unscathed.

So, I tend to lean to the side of you have to use tactical nukes pre emptively if you are serious about stopping them.



Too bad the "rods from God" program was cancelled. This would be an ideal application.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Keep in mind their newest, longest range missile they just tested is fully road mobile.

Then read this entire story that just came out today
Expert on North Korea's New Hwasong-15 ICBM: "You Cannot Stop This Thing"


It confirms my thinking in my earlier posting that if you pre emptively attack NK you absolutely have to make sure you get them all and immediately. If you can't do it conventionally, you would have to use the nuclear option.

So you either have to be willing to likely use nukes on them first or go into cold war 2.0 with an unstable dictator

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Is NK preparing another major provocation for their upcoming major holiday of Dec 17? (this sunday)

North Korea missile launch this WEEKEND: Experts claim Kim plotting strike on Sunday