NY State Police say they recovered illegally possessed PSAK-47 during traffic stop......

[libertysnake]

I only posted the law that I believe he was charged with. As usual, there is not enough information to know for sure.

He was indeed and in fact charged. This is the charge that I think they used against him.

Maybe he didn't have his receipts / transfer docs so they're trying to charge him with possessing it recently -- but they'll have to prove that in court.

If he bought it before that time, then it's legal to own it without registering or getting purchasing permission.

To be honest, all gun restrictions are illegal. So we should be saying "prohibited" or "non-prohibited" and not "legal" or "illegal."

 

[Saltwater60]

I think the mag is removable, it does not look like there is any kind of "pinning". That said, I agree with "illegally possessed" he might not be allowed any firearms. Who knows. I find it odd the article stressses PSA although their PSAK is a nice rifle. Too bad it is not in the Rosewood or Nuteg, instead it is scarey awful black. Altough who knows, maybe that is not the actual rifle the guy had.....

Even if the mag is removable what’s illegal about it? To me it’s featureless. What banned feature does it have?

 

[CaliberPlus]

Bayonet lug is a feature.

 

[libertysnake]

Bayonet lug is a feature.

It doesn’t look like it has lugs. See my above posts on where they’re located and how they’re removed during a build

 

[CaliberPlus]

Well we have sold a few of those and I would say they are. It is hard to tell from the picture for sure.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar15-a2-front-sight-gas-block-w-bayonet-lug.html

If the "lugs" are smooth it might be dabateable. The thing with the Safe Act is there is so much room for debate.

 

[FP1201]

New York Penal Law 265.01-b(1). Possession of an unlicensed or unregistered firearm. This is only a guess. We was only issued an appearance ticket, so I am assuming this is what he was arrested for.

The definition of "Firearm" does not apply to this Rifle.

 

[libertysnake]

Well we have sold a few of those and I would say they are. It is hard to tell from the picture for sure.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar15-a2-front-sight-gas-block-w-bayonet-lug.html

If the "lugs" are smooth it might be dabateable. The thing with the Safe Act is there is so much room for debate.

the lugs aren’t there on the AK. They’re on the gas block on the portion that holds the cleaning rod. They are little notches on the side of the part I highlighted that extends downward. If those are shaved down, a bayonet will not lock and hold on. You can slide the bayonet over the barrel but there is nothing to lock onto for an AK other than those notches for the 47.

the 74 is a different setup for the locking location (front sights I believe?).

I looked again at the picture, and the front sight block doesn't even have little notches that are sometimes present in Bulgarian AKs that would even remotely be mistaken for lugs:



So I see nothing to be interpreted as a lug here assuming the cleaning rod points of the gas block have no notches on the sides.

 

[GOPerfect]

The definition of "Firearm" does not apply to this Rifle.

How so? Or, how not?

 

[Saltwater60]

How so? Or, how not?

265 only applies to pistols, Sbr’s, or guns under 26” total length.

 

[GOPerfect]

265 only applies to pistols, Sbr’s, or guns under 26” total length.

How long is this rifle? How long is the barrel? Is this considered an Assault Weapon in NY State?

3. "Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having
one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or (c) a rifle
having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length; or (d)
any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration,
modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or
otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches; or (e)
an assault weapon; or (f) any other weapon that is not otherwise defined
in this section containing any component that provides housing or a
structure designed to hold or integrate any fire control component that
is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by
action of explosive. For the purpose of this subdivision the length of
the barrel on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the
distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or
breechlock when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked; the
overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance
between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to
the center line of the bore. Firearm does not include an antique
firearm.

 

[GOPerfect]

How long is this rifle? How long is the barrel? Is this considered an Assault Weapon in NY State?

3. "Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having
one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or (c) a rifle
having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length; or (d)
any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration,
modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or
otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches; or (e)
an assault weapon; or (f) any other weapon that is not otherwise defined
in this section containing any component that provides housing or a
structure designed to hold or integrate any fire control component that
is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by
action of explosive. For the purpose of this subdivision the length of
the barrel on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the
distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or
breechlock when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked; the
overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance
between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to
the center line of the bore. Firearm does not include an antique
firearm.

22. “Assault weapon” means


(a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least one of the following characteristics:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) a thumbhole stock;

(iv) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;

(v) a bayonet mount;

(vi) a flash suppressor, muzzle break, muzzle compensator, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor, muzzle break, or muzzle compensator;

(vii) a grenade launcher;  or

(b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least one of the following characteristics:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a thumbhole stock; .....

 

[thughes]

Meanwhile in free America.....PSAK-47's are running amuck! Oh noes! Don't tell the FUNYSP.

 

[Bozo]

Rifle appears to be a PSAK-47 GF3 "California" model. Cali does not list the bayonet mount as one of their evil features.

GF3 Gas block/cleaning rod holder/bayo lugs



PSAK-47 GF3 "California"

 

[Saltwater60]

How long is this rifle? How long is the barrel? Is this considered an Assault Weapon in NY State?

3. "Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having
one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or (c) a rifle
having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length; or (d)
any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration,
modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or
otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches; or (e)
an assault weapon; or (f) any other weapon that is not otherwise defined
in this section containing any component that provides housing or a
structure designed to hold or integrate any fire control component that
is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by
action of explosive. For the purpose of this subdivision the length of
the barrel on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the
distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or
breechlock when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked; the
overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance
between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to
the center line of the bore. Firearm does not include an antique
firearm.

That’s what we’re trying to figure out if it’s an assault rifle some way. The below posted may have it correct and it may after all be a bayonet lug. It’s hard to say.
As for the barrel length and overall length I’d have to assume it’s a 16” barrel and the rifle is over 26”. Who knows though.

 

[libertysnake]

Rifle appears to be a PSAK-47 GF3 "California" model. Cali does not list the bayonet mount as one of their evil features.

GF3 Gas block/cleaning rod holder/bayo lugs
View attachment 180155


PSAK-47 GF3 "California"

Where did you find this information that it's a California model? I don't see it mentioned at all.

It doesn't appear to be that either since the California model has a compensator.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Where did you find this information that it's a California model? I don't see it mentioned at all.

It doesn't appear to be that either since the California model has a compensator.

This is tough to be sure. The AK in the video could have simply had the threads removed and re-blued. But it's also missing the PSA stamping. It's possible that it may just not have the stamping since not all PSA receivers have it. Lastly the grip is different. Of course that can also be switched out. If it's not a PSA though, again I ask why are they going after PSA? I would suspect because they sell massive volume with relatively low prices.

 

[libertysnake]

This is tough to be sure. The AK in the video could have simply had the threads removed and re-blued. But it's also missing the PSA stamping. It's possible that it may just not have the stamping since not all PSA receivers have it. Lastly the grip is different. Of course that can also be switched out. If it's not a PSA though, again I ask why are they going after PSA? I would suspect because they sell massive volume with relatively low prices.

View attachment 180162

View attachment 180161

Whatever the case is, if the threads were removed by the manufacturer during the creation process in a free state, then I don't see what the issue was with this gun coming into NY with that configuration. If the manufacturer did it before import it's a non issue, is it not (threads wise)?

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Whatever the case is, if the threads were removed by the manufacturer during the creation process in a free state, then I don't see what the issue was with this gun coming into NY with that configuration. If the manufacturer did it before import it's a non issue, is it not (threads wise)?

I meant the guy that got caught with it could have removed them or had someone remove them. One way to have a better idea is if they would have showed the bolt carrier. But again that could be switched out from a different gun. I don't think a fin flies in NY either. Who knows. Not that it matters anyway because NY will do whatever it wants and even go opposite what their own laws say in black and white. I'm just glad I don't have to keep up with that garbage anymore.

 

[libertysnake]

I meant the guy that got caught with it could have removed them or had someone remove them. One way to have a better idea is if they would have showed the bolt carrier. But again that could be switched out from a different gun. I don't think a fin flies in NY either. Who knows. Not that it matters anyway because NY will do whatever it wants and even go opposite what their own laws say in black and white. I'm just glad I don't have to keep up with that garbage anymore.

View attachment 180163

The only way to know that is if the manufacturer produced it with threads and sold it that way. If they didn't, and they were removed while building it, he's off the hook as it was manufactured to not have threads.

NY still has to prove that it was built non-compliant. More reason to have a receipt that claims so to CYA against NYS.

 

[Bozo]

Hey, they don't call me Bozo for nothing! Missed the lack of a slant brake. Could be a welded thread-protector, but who can tell from the crappy NYSP photo. It looks pretty close to the PSA "compliant" model, but as @gun_slinger_boy pointed out, not close enough.

 

[FRANKIE]

Looks like a PSA has the in house GF3 forged trunnion. But I don’t understand what I think I see the Cugir Romanian arsenal triangle on the trunnion?

 

[thughes]

Looks like a PSA has the in house GF3 forged trunnion. But I don’t understand what I think I see the Cugir Romanian arsenal triangle on the trunnion?

PSA Arsenal Triangle.

 

[FRANKIE]

PSA Arsenal Triangle.


View attachment 180190

Roger that.

 

[Hervie]

I believe once the magazine is removable on a AK47 in the state of New York it becomes illegal another factor is the size of the magazine if it's a 30 round or more it also becomes illegal and finally if your not coming or going from your home to the shooting range it becomes illegal just hope that the rounds weren't in the magazine that would also be a problem and it's illegal. People learn your state laws and alway have your safety trigger lock on your weapon and carry all paper works that would pertains to that weapon.

 

[thughes]

 

[Hervie]

Even if the mag is removable what’s illegal about it? To me it’s featureless. What banned feature does it have?

I believe once the magazine is removable on a AK47 in the state of New York it becomes illegal another factor is the size of the magazine if it's a 30 round or more it also becomes illegal and finally if your not coming or going from your home to the shooting range it becomes illegal just hope that the rounds weren't in the magazine that would also be a problem and it's illegal. People learn your state laws and alway have your safety trigger lock on your weapon and carry all paper works that would pertains to that weapon

 

[FP1201]

How long is this rifle? How long is the barrel? Is this considered an Assault Weapon in NY State?

3. "Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having
one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or (c) a rifle
having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length; or (d)
any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration,
modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or
otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches; or (e)
an assault weapon; or (f) any other weapon that is not otherwise defined
in this section containing any component that provides housing or a
structure designed to hold or integrate any fire control component that
is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by
action of explosive. For the purpose of this subdivision the length of
the barrel on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the
distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or
breechlock when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked; the
overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance
between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to
the center line of the bore. Firearm does not include an antique
firearm.

The answer lies within PL you cited: NY's definition of "Firearm" does not fall within what we commonly refer to as a firearm.
The Rifle mentioned is not a pistol or revolver, it does not have barrel(s) shorter than 16" for Rifle (18" for shotgun) it's not made from...altered,... have an overall length less than 26 inches, etc. therefor IT IS NOT a "Firearm" it is a gun, specifically a Rifle, and the issue seems to be the accusation that it's an "Assault Rifle" but the definitions and application to this gun aren't clear. I highly doubt the pictured Rifle has a barrel less than 16 inches or an overall of less than 26 inches, but I don't have possession to check myself or a Lab report with their findings.

 

[libertysnake]

I believe once the magazine is removable on a AK47 in the state of New York it becomes illegal another factor is the size of the magazine if it's a 30 round or more it also becomes illegal and finally if your not coming or going from your home to the shooting range it becomes illegal just hope that the rounds weren't in the magazine that would also be a problem and it's illegal. People learn your state laws and alway have your safety trigger lock on your weapon and carry all paper works that would pertains to that weapon

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that a removeable magazine on an AK makes it automatically an assault weapon.

The same rules that apply to an AR would apply to an AK. Namely, as long as it has an overall length greater than 26 inches, and a barrel over 16 inches, and it has: a fixed stock, a grip that doesn't allow a pistol style grasp on the rifle (IE, spur, fin, or a few others that seem to be kosher), no lugs on the bottom of the gas block where the cleaning rod passes through, no threads on the barrel, or a forward grip -- as long as it lacks those, then it can have a detachable magazine that does not exceed 10 rounds in total capacity.

So an AK should be perfectly kosher so long as it meets those requirements. It isn't automatically illegal, and there are many compliant AKs sold in NYS.

 

[Hervie]

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that a removeable magazine on an AK makes it automatically an assault weapon.

The same rules that apply to an AR would apply to an AK. Namely, as long as it has an overall length greater than 26 inches, and a barrel over 16 inches, and it has: a fixed stock, a grip that doesn't allow a pistol style grasp on the rifle (IE, spur, fin, or a few others that seem to be kosher), no lugs on the bottom of the gas block where the cleaning rod passes through, no threads on the barrel, or a forward grip -- as long as it lacks those, then it can have a detachable magazine that does not exceed 10 rounds in total capacity.

So an AK should be perfectly kosher so long as it meets those requirements. It isn't automatically illegal, and there are many compliant AKs sold in NYS.

Where are you reading that it's stated that a removable magazine becomes an automatic assault rifle ?
I was just pointing out the possibility of why maybe this young men got in trouble with the law over his ak47 in the town of Fishkill.

 

[libertysnake]

Where are you reading that it's stated that a removable magazine becomes an automatic assault rifle ?
I was just pointing out the possibility of why maybe this young men got in trouble with the law over his ak47 in the town of Fishkill.

I'm confused. I thought you meant that since the magazine is removeable it's a problem for the AK.

I think we're on the same page here. Bottom line is either we need to file a FOIA request, or wait till this is posted in a new article with an update.

I'm considering filing a FOIA request so we can get closure.