NY veteran facing 21 years for having standard Glock magazines

[Day444]

The Wheels (mesg. 360):
Yes, this case will be important one way or the other. Hopefully in his and our favor.
True, it may or may not go to a higher court. I kinda hope it does, at least to the State Supreme Court. On a local level I don't feel it will pull much weight, state level is a different story, IMO.
You have to start some where, something/someone has to be the First. These type of cases start stacking up and it will make a difference. Maybe tie up the courts and bring some much needed positive attention to getting rid of the SAFE Act.

 

[Marine Cpl]

That all depends on the questions you are ask during selection!

The law says anything over a 10 rd mag is illegal, they enter three 17 round mags into evidence. The defendant admitted to them being his! How can you vote innocent?

Believe me I would not be on this jury!

They aren't going to ask you if you'd convict, present evidence, and if you say no, pick someone else who will say he'd convict no matter what. It doesn't work that way.

All they do is tell you whether the case is civil or criminal. Then they say what the charges are. Then they ask you if you can be impartial.

You either answer yes or no.

 

[nortatoga]

They aren't going to ask you if you'd convict, present evidence, and if you say no, pick someone else who will say he'd convict no matter what. It doesn't work that way.

All they do is tell you whether the case is civil or criminal. Then they say what the charges are. Then they ask you if you can be impartial.

You either answer yes or no.

And the charges are a Safe Act violation for high capacity magazines. You can answer that you could be impartial?

 

[Marine Cpl]

And the charges are a Safe Act violation for high capacity magazines. You can answer that you could be impartial?

They don't say that. They say the defendant is charged with Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the 4th Degree. Details are left out.

 

[spat]

yeah SCOPE has been SO successful ! Any gun owner who is not an NRA member is a FOOL !

There is NO defense for any alternative position.

If you are NOT with us, you are, by default, against us.

I doubt any of you NRA haters know the Sullivan law was passed by IRISH cops and politicians with the primary purpose of keeping the newly freed blacks from arming themselves to protect against racist cops and other NY officials.

In most cases it has nothing to do with the NRA actions, you're just too cheap to sign up.

I *am* an NRA member, they are a valuable firearms safety and proficiency organization here. On the national level they are a mediocre RKBA organization, but in NY the only thing they do for RKBA is separate donors from money that would be better spent elsewhere, THEY ARE VERY GOOD AT THAT.

I just think a post suggesting they have or are doing *anything* for NYers rights is ridiculous.

We bring them more members and money than Texas, yet they did nothing to fight SAFE, nothings to fight Sullivan, nothing at all for RKBA in NY.

NYers have donated tens of millions to them for this, and we have seen nothing in return.

 

[spat]

Say the jury doesn't convict. Will this change the SAFE Act? It could but it's going to have to go to a higher court. One case might not make much of a difference. Yet, it shows an act of defiance by a citizen who other wise is of good moral caricature. IF he did what he's accused of with knowledge that he was breaking the law. If he just got jammed up and didn't know he was in the wrong, then he really is not a victim of these f'd up laws.

Even if all it does is avoid this one travesty of justice, that is enough.

If I defend a little old lady from a mugger, I do not do so because I think it will eliminate all crime in that neighborhood, but because that one little old lady needed help. Jury nullification is like that.

 

[spat]

They don't say that. They say the defendant is charged with Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the 4th Degree. Details are left out.

I'd tell the prosecutor flat out, "If you can prove he comitted a crime, I'll vote to convict."

If the prosecution can find something in the NY statute that this guy did, that isn't protected by the 2A, I will.

 

[masterswimmer]

It is not only [the juror's] right, but his duty...to find the verdict according to his own best understanding, judgment, and conscience, though in direct opposition to the direction of the court.

John Adams, 1771

Must be very careful about this quote. Just substitute an anti 2A juror for the pro 2A juror and the exact same quote holds true for them. Both jurors would sleep well that night with the verdict they render.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Must be very careful about this quote. Just substitute an anti 2A juror for the pro 2A juror and the exact same quote holds true for them. Both jurors would sleep well that night with the verdict they render.

True. But a juror that is not a gun owner is no peer of mine.

 

[@thewheels]

True. But a juror that is not a gun owner is no peer of mine.

Even more so anyone anti 2a.

 

[masterswimmer]

True. But a juror that is not a gun owner is no peer of mine.

Not talking about friends or acquaintances, strangers that can be on any one of our jury's......ie: SteyrAug

 

[Marine Cpl]

Not talking about friends or acquaintances, strangers that can be on any one of our jury's......ie: SteyrAug

That's the way a cookie crumbles.

 

[nortatoga]

That's the way a cookie crumbles.

Exactly!! So how do you like those %'s

 

[Marine Cpl]

Exactly!! So how do you like those %'s

It only takes one pro 2A guy to hang a jury.

What is your point anyway?

 

[nortatoga]

It only takes one pro 2A guy to hang a jury.

What is your point anyway?

A hung jury only makes for a new trial, So more money for the defendant to have to spend!

 

[Marine Cpl]

A hung jury only makes for a new trial, So more money for the defendant to have to spend!

And if the next one is hung. And the one after. And the one after. That's my point.

I don't know what your point is other than you voting guilty in direct contrast to the 2A.

 

[nortatoga]

And if the next one is hung. And the one after. And the one after. That's my point.

I don't know what your point is other than you voting guilty in direct contrast to the 2A.

I would not be on the jury!

DA to me Sir the charge is criminal possession of a firearm.

Me, I am a County pistol license safety instructor

DA have a nice day sir you are excused!

 

[Marine Cpl]

I would not be on the jury!

DA to me Sir the charge is criminal possession of a firearm.

Me, I am a County pistol license safety instructor

DA have a nice day sir you are excused!

Why would you say that if they didn't ask you? You just decreased this guy's chances by doing that.

 

[nortatoga]

Why would you say that if they didn't ask you? You just decreased this guy's chances by doing that.

To avoid me causing a mistrial!

 

[Marine Cpl]

To avoid me causing a mistrial!

Why wouldn't you want the guy to get a mistrial? You want him to get convicted? I don't understand your logic.

If I get arrested, I want a mistrial or a not guilty.

 

[nortatoga]

Why wouldn't you want the guy to get a mistrial? You want him to get convicted? I don't understand your logic.

If I get arrested, I want a mistrial or a not guilty.

Because I could be charged with contempt of court? Lose my ability to give the pistol classes that what this guy was charge with we tell new people not to do!

 

[Marine Cpl]

Because I could be charged with contempt of court? Lose my ability to give the pistol classes that what this guy was charge with we tell new people not to do!

What? You need help man. No offense.

 

[nortatoga]

Let me just say this, there was more to this bust then is known!

 

[Marine Cpl]

Let me just say this, there was more to this bust then is known!

Well if other crimes were committed, than he should pay for them. But I don't see what you being a firearms instructor has to do with contempt of court. That's ridiculous.

 

[Day444]

Let me just say this, there was more to this bust then is known!

I wouldn't be surprised if someone had it out for him.

 

[nortatoga]

Well if other crimes were committed, than he should pay for them. But I don't see what you being a firearms instructor has to do with contempt of court. That's ridiculous.

Not being forthright when asked if there is any reason you may not be acceptable for this case! Which I was asked at another time in a jury pool for another offence years ago long before I was in to shooting!

 

[Marine Cpl]

Not being forthright when asked if there is any reason you may not be acceptable for this case! Which I was asked at another time in a jury pool for another offence years ago long before I was in to shooting!

And what exactly would you not be forthright about?

 

[nortatoga]

Would you see a insurance broker on the jury for some charged with insurance fraud, a Doctor on a malpractice case? They don't want people to smart or not so smart!

 

[Marine Cpl]

Would you see a insurance broker on the jury for some charged with insurance fraud, a Doctor on a malpractice case? They don't want people to smart or not so smart!

Dude. If they ask you what your occupation is, you answer truthfully. If they ask you if you can be impartial, you also answer truthfully. The defense picks half the jurors and the prosecution picks the other half.

I can be impartial and convict if they prove to me that someone committed a crime. If they cannot, then I don't vote to convict. They'd have to prove to me that the crime he committed was indeed a crime and that he committed it.

If it was determined that he committed Larceny and Criminal Possession of a Weapon, I'd find the guy guilty of Larceny and not guilty of Criminal Possession of a Weapon.

If the sole crime was possession, I'd still be impartial and find him not guilty because they would have to prove to me that he committed a crime. He did not as per the 2A.

 

[holdover]

Millions of now banned weapons were sold to New Yorkers since the 1970s.apporoximately 40,000 weapons were registered. Most of whom were probably dealers with large investmentS. Most of the people in NY said fuck you and chose to become a criminal before becoming a slave. Most cops will turn a blind eye to safeact violations because they won't follow an illegal order, law, fuck nys fuck Andy coumo fuck the safe act and fuck you.