nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Defense Dynamics LLC still has 1 ticket available for the June class as of this posting ( Reg on there website )
Saratoga unrestricted Lic class
- Thread starter nortatoga
- Start date
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Now Sold Out!
Shadow2
6.5 Creedmoor
Saratoga, Required course from approved list of people. It's seems like a nice little racket.
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
As is the basic Pistol Safety Course! By approved NRA instructors as are most Counties.
Shadow2
6.5 Creedmoor
Yes but to my knowledge Saratoga Springs required the use of specific NRA instructors or at least that was what was implied to th individual who took the course. They had no other option but to use this person recommended by the clerk.
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nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
There were 4 now 5 classes a month! By 5 different instructor groups for a limit of 60 a month. This so that it does not have to much effect on the process time of new pistol applicants!
Shadow2
6.5 Creedmoor
Based on your answer then what i heard is true ... you are restricted to specific instructors and are subject to thier fees.. Smells like a racket to me.
="nortatoga, post: 151266, member: 18"]There were 4 now 5 classes a month! By 5 different instructor groups for a limit of 60 a month. This so that it does not have to much effect on the process time of new pistol applicants![/QUOTE]
="nortatoga, post: 151266, member: 18"]There were 4 now 5 classes a month! By 5 different instructor groups for a limit of 60 a month. This so that it does not have to much effect on the process time of new pistol applicants![/QUOTE]
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
You are from Westchester County correct? A lot of the Counties north of you only recognize Pistol Safety Classes from approved instructors ( weather Basic or Advanced ) so that all the classes are the same.
Different Drummer
.44 mag
nortatoga,
Your organization is one of the venues for the course I believe. And from your posts it would seem that you assist in teaching some courses at your organization.
Please tell us how much money goes into the coffers of your organization each time a course is given. Additionally, how much per student goes to the instructor?
It is no secret ( evidenced by some of my previous posts ) that I have issue with the Saratoga County's get free of arbitrary and subjective administrative restrictions procedure. As I have said in the past this is mainly due to the fact that for Years permits without administrative restrictions were universally denied stating "proper cause'. I cannot see how the expense and time of the "remove restrictions course" addresses the Proper cause issue.
On principle alone it produces a sour taste in the mouths of some. Myself included.
I also understand that there are many who are just so happy to now have an avenue to get their administrative restrictions removed that they are willing to spend the money and do what is required to get a NYS pistol Lic. that is not defaced by administrative restrictions. We all have different opinions and values. Should any organization or individuals of that organization be getting benefits from being one of the chosen instructional venues I suppose it would put some sugar on the same pill that some others find so difficult to swallow. Thus they have a vested interest in supporting the policy.
And remember, unless there has been a change in policy there is at least one of the organizations teaching the course that will take it's members before all others. That has been put forth in writing. And that organization is quite large so I imagine that it will be one heck of a long time before anyone from outside that group gets to take the course there.
So, please tell us the benefits that go to the organization hosting the class and / or what benefits go to those select few who are allowed to teach the class.
Your organization is one of the venues for the course I believe. And from your posts it would seem that you assist in teaching some courses at your organization.
Please tell us how much money goes into the coffers of your organization each time a course is given. Additionally, how much per student goes to the instructor?
It is no secret ( evidenced by some of my previous posts ) that I have issue with the Saratoga County's get free of arbitrary and subjective administrative restrictions procedure. As I have said in the past this is mainly due to the fact that for Years permits without administrative restrictions were universally denied stating "proper cause'. I cannot see how the expense and time of the "remove restrictions course" addresses the Proper cause issue.
On principle alone it produces a sour taste in the mouths of some. Myself included.
I also understand that there are many who are just so happy to now have an avenue to get their administrative restrictions removed that they are willing to spend the money and do what is required to get a NYS pistol Lic. that is not defaced by administrative restrictions. We all have different opinions and values. Should any organization or individuals of that organization be getting benefits from being one of the chosen instructional venues I suppose it would put some sugar on the same pill that some others find so difficult to swallow. Thus they have a vested interest in supporting the policy.
And remember, unless there has been a change in policy there is at least one of the organizations teaching the course that will take it's members before all others. That has been put forth in writing. And that organization is quite large so I imagine that it will be one heck of a long time before anyone from outside that group gets to take the course there.
So, please tell us the benefits that go to the organization hosting the class and / or what benefits go to those select few who are allowed to teach the class.
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
@Different Drummer you forgot to ask how much an hour the Lawyer gets on a Sat. morning to do the Article 35 portion of the class!!
Different Drummer
.44 mag
Actually that would be something that I would in fact be curious about.
You may think that I am being argumentative. I will say sincerely that I am not. If we were discussing this in person you would surely realize that.
There are often things lost in printed communication. More dangerous is what may be gained that is not meant to be gained. Honestly, I have no desire to enter into the urinary olympics with anyone on the issue. I do have some strong personal feelings on the matter and am not afraid to express them. For years and years firearms owners in Saratoga County were denied a pistol Lic. void of administrative restrictions.. Every single denial used Proper cause for the reason. The course now required does not alter in any way anything to do with proper cause. So, what this tells me is that the present judge and at least the two proceeding him shoveled crap down our throats in a subjective and arbitrary way because they could.
Wonder what would happen if someone sent a letter directly to the judge requesting that their administrative restrictions be removed without taking the course?
Certainly he would not be able to cite proper cause as he did in the past, as he is now removing administrative restrictions based on something that has absolutely nothing to do with proper cause.
I suspect that I actually do know how he would respond. I am not 100% up on the procedure so I could be off a bit. However, I believe that the judge no longer even accepts a request letter from individuals to remove administrative restrictions. Was there not a specific Administrative removal procedure established that must be followed? And does this procedure require completion of the administrative restrictions removal course?
So, if someone sent a request letter directly to the judge I imagine he would send it back with instructions to follow the established procedure. Which will no longer says anything about proper cause but most likely will require completion of the course.
I mean really, what suddenly happened after all these years that made the judge decide proper cause is not a factor. I think I know the answer to that. Proper cause never was a factor. It was just a convenient way for years to shovel that crap down peoples throats.
As I said before, when someone is gleaning benefits from the arrangement it sweetens the pill that others may find too bitter to swallow.
When you post up those benefits received by the hosting organizations and the people doing the instruction feel free to include the lawyers benefits you brought up as well.
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Sorry @Different Drummer the only info I have the right to pass along would be what I am paid when working a class, And that is between me and Defense Dynamics and the IRS!
Shadow2
6.5 Creedmoor
I could have used a Certified instructor from Kansas is my point, I just needs proof i took the course. Hell if i took the course in another state i could have supplied a live fire too. Why would the course NOT be the same its an NRA Safety course. Not a NY safety Course, is there a special NRA Saritoga Safety course? Is not the course taught from videos? I'm pointing out the burocracy, where somone decided on a "select group" of instructors. And what of the lawyer? what does that have to do with safety? So yet an addition to the expense and burocracy to the 2nd amendment right.
Im not blaming you but it's clear somone is makeing money and they are ok with it.
I know somone who had to take the course i'm not sure with whom. The fee was not terrible. but the fact the individual could have gotten the instruction free elsewhere but was not permitted needs to be pointed out. I know of instructors who do not charge, they do it as a public service. My Instructor Certifications cost me the price of materials and that was It. I plan to pass that forward.
Im not blaming you but it's clear somone is makeing money and they are ok with it.
I know somone who had to take the course i'm not sure with whom. The fee was not terrible. but the fact the individual could have gotten the instruction free elsewhere but was not permitted needs to be pointed out. I know of instructors who do not charge, they do it as a public service. My Instructor Certifications cost me the price of materials and that was It. I plan to pass that forward.
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nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
The class is not a NRA class first off! It is a class that is given by NRA certified instructors ( read what the Penal Law considers instructors ) So yes this is a Saratoga Advanced class! That is Limited to 60 a month from the first 4 instructor groups to now 5 . So the first 4 groups each gave up 3 spots, from 15 to 12 once a month!
The Lawyer is a requirement from the Judge to cover Article 35
If you go to the Sheriffs web-site you can see the requirements and the course of fire.
I know there are some who don't like it, I wish I didn't have to spend the money for it ( Yes I had to take and pay for class too ) But it was this or nothing!! IT was the only way the New Judge was going to issue Unrestricted License's
I almost regret starting this post too try and help someone on the forum get in to the class when there was a glitch and a ticket hung up and was available! Class usually sells out in minutes!
Shadow2
6.5 Creedmoor
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nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
You want to call it a Racket go right ahead!! I'll bet a lot of folks in your County would welcome a Racket ( as you call it, not me ) be allowed down there!!