holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Things are getting tight out there. lots of presses have sold out , powders primers are thin ,
School me on dies
- Thread starter holdover
- Start date
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Yup, I order my Dillon as soon as I heard about the stimulus check, then picked up powder and primers each week.
1075tech
.338 Win Mag
My first adventure with reloading started almost 40 years ago using a Lee loader. Neck sizes only. But for a bolt gun, it got me started.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Im behind the power curve,priced in a Trump win . Now theres a lawsuit on Cabelas thats going forward concerning ammunition sales , I forsee it being difficult to procure ammo in the future , along with weapons and parts. I didnt think it would come to this ,this soon. a lot of places selling 223 for a buck a round . If Biden gets in Ill be casting my own bullets by summer.
The forester co ax is sold out , 2- 3 week waiting period to get one. most of the other top ones are scarce too. the Lee , Hornady, rscb, progressives are gone too. Higher end ones still in stock .
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
collet crimp die. Is this something Ill need right away or add on later?
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You don't need a crimp die for rifle rounds. The bullet is held in place by the neck tension.
1075tech
.338 Win Mag
Not normally necessary. Some who load for maximum accuracy will use a light crimp to provide for consistent neck tension. But those are generally the ones either shooting for competition or just bragging rights about tiny groups.
100% false. Those who shoot for maximum accuracy don't crimp. In fact, crimping is an extra variable which can negatively impact accuracy. It's one more thing that one needs to keep consistent, but it's totally unnecessary. The "light crimp" BS comes from Dillon to justify the need for another station in the press.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Crimp dies work best for accuracy when you trim case length on the batch you are working up.
Robin
Robin
That's true, but the bigger point they are not needed. I shoot with National Champions. Trust me, no one with any competitive experience is doing that.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
I read in Lees book that neck tension can improve accuracy, that he made a special die for a friend who went on to set the world record 1000 yard shot.
Neck tension is done when you are sizing cases in a sizing die. This is the right way to do it. The entire neck of the case is holding the bullet. To measure neck tension, subtract outside diameter of the neck before the bullet is seated from the diameter after the bullet is seated. It's normally close to 0.002"
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Lee can tell anecdotal stories in his book, who cares. Look at all high end rifle die sets, they come without crimp die.
Military specs require crimping, but that's for a different reason, they also crimp primers and put sealant.
Military specs require crimping, but that's for a different reason, they also crimp primers and put sealant.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Mebby, mebby not.
Robin
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Might try it both ways
If only comparing was that simple. Operator error will be a bigger factor hiding all else.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Pistol: taper crimp for autloaders and tube fed and whatever crimp or not for revolver.
Rifle: it depends on the rifle and actual round.
For regular bolt action rounds consistent neck tension is enough and key to accuracy.
For autoloaders might be wise to out a crimp i the canelure if you have one and the rounds are to be used in a number of gas guns some that might be very aggressive on feeding angle and force. It also depends on the round and how much bullet is exposed and natural neck tension available.
Like the whisper with almost 1/2 of the round coal being the bullet out of the case and the small neck it is prone to bullet offset and even separation due to the torque between bullet and case imposed by the design.
In this case a smaller size button when needed and additional collet crimp with or w/o canelure can save some headaches.
Same with ammo created with military bullets for long term storage and later use one might as well put a crimp in the canelure and wax the mouth and primer join to prevent water and moisture. In other words try to recreate service like ammo.
Most times a rifle crimp is not necessary as soon as one has decent neck tension and traditional bottleneck cartriges. This is also key to accuracy as it contributes to the consistent starting pressure that is key in achieving consistent speed spreads.
In my case sometimes I use a crimp for two additional purposes:
A) hunting ammo is prepared in quality cases with premium bullets, always full sized and I put a slight crimp whether I have cannelure or not. i also wax them and make them as waterproof as they can be and test for cycling in the intended hunting rifle with a blocked hammer or removed firing pin for safety. Anything to minimize the chances of a rifle or ammo failure during the hunt (had one round fail on me once)
B) sometimes I put a small collet crimp in bullets even when the bullet does not have a cannelure This has to be done so slightly as to just press a bit but w/o so much tension that will deform the bullet. i seggregate the brass by brand, batch/year and weight and could have turned the necks but it has been my experience that a very slight crimp helps create that desired consistent start pressure and get very good spreads w/o doing the turning.
Like for example a 69gr smk in 5.56 using lake city nato stamped brass well sorted, powder measured and slight crimp prints 1/3 to 1 moa consistently using a 20" lothar walter from an AR.
With lapua brass I would not be putting the crimp but neck tension on that brass is so consistent from factory.
In the process of reloading you will see different methods and approaches and you just have to try and see what works for you.
It is not rocket science one just has to get started.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Dont go anywhere, I have no way of knowing just by reading, unless I compare the 2 myself. I appreciate the insights.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I just made up a batch myself, ten crippled and ten uncrimped, with a balance of fifty awaiting the results. I just need to do my part as the shooter to assure the test is fair.
Robin
Robin
What I posted comes from the vast practical experience, mine and others. I am not saying crimping, if done right WILL be detrimental to accuracy. Definitely not to the point where you will see it on paper by firing side by side. Human factor will play much bigger role in the size of your groups, even with very experienced good shooters.
My point is: crimping is an unnecessary step that you have to keep consistent. There is no possible gain from it, only a possible loss.
Regular sizing dies are designed to give you correct neck tension. It's plenty of neck tension to withstand semi-auto feeding. To demonstrate this to yourself use kinetic bullet puller to dislodge the bullet from the assembled round. You will see how much impact it will take just for the bullet to start moving.
There is also such thing as soft-seating, where the neck tension is made to be very light and the bullet is seated longer then the chamber will allow. It is seated the rest of the way when the round is chambered. This is only for single loading, for some very specific bullets, rarely used anymore. To do this neck sizing dies are used, where you dial neck tension by selecting a wider neck bushing. You don't need to get into that at this point or ever.
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Unless your hold (even from the bench) is tighter then any possible difference, this test will not show anything. There is a reason special rifle rests are made for this purpose.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
I ordered a foster co-ax, unfortunately, it wont be here for 2-3 months. I was thinking about picking it up at a later date but I went to thier website and they are now 550 ! I got mine for 350 . I picked up Vitori N133-135 powder too. Now Im going to pick up a peice or two a week for the next two months , no rush now.
I paid something between 200 and 250 about a decade ago. Good reloading tools you can use for years and sell for more than what you paid.
Last big panic was in 2008, Obama election. Reloading components and AR parts were effected, but reloading presses and tools were plenty of.
This panic is all bullshit, no one will ban ammo.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
If something ever happens, its a come as you are party. Im not saying anything is going to happen , but just in case.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Had to cancel the Forster co ax, to long to wait . I ordered the Redding t7 and some redding 223 dies . I got the press the other day, but some of my things are still in back order . Wont be up and running for a week or 2. reading some books and watching some videos
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Nice!!!!!!
Robin
Robin