Second Amendment Town Hall on Strategy

[Saltwater60]

I figure the thruway are clear. I’m going.

 

[MothMan]

Thruway from Syracuse here was fine.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Hopefully I’ll be the guy driving down with a kayak in the truck bed and returning without one and $300 richer.

Looks like a no sale as I still saw it in your Chevy. Anyhow, on to the real matter.

I've never been to something like this before. Decided to listen and not speak. Here was my observations:
1. Organizers are aware of the lefts tactics and goals.
2. There was one thing missing from the room that the left seems to have an abundance of: Youth.
I don't remember seeing one face under 40 and the majority seemed to be 50+ years old. You have a HUGE generation gap here.

Old school parents and others old enough to be their children. This generation has solid moral values and doesn't want to know anything about Twitter or Assbook, and frankly neither do I.

It's also obvious our side of the coin is aware of the financial disadvantage it has, and I think that needs to be focused on acutely. Understand this fact and learn a way around it.

I don't have all the answers but I know TV ads, billboards, and bellyaching isn't going to get the job done. Voting is important, and EVERYONE who isn't happy with the status quo needs to vote, and honestly speak to others who need to get off the couch and vote as well.

I don't think the minds of our "youth" (and I'm talking University age here) can be led to the water. There's too many brainwashers out there and they don't have enough life experience to know any better yet. I believe this has to be won in the courts with the hopes that those in the system have even one shred of pride and decency left to do the right thing.

Talk to today's middle and high school kids. As Jim mentioned, get American history BACK into the curriculum and listen to (and ask) what teachers are saying and pay attention. Go out of your way to introduce younger kids to learn about gun safety, target shooting, hunting, etc so that everyone they see a gun they don't run screaming down the street in terror. Somewhere the tradition and passed knowledge and ideals have been lost. Until they come back, it's going to be a steep hill.

 

[Deplorable Me]

I concur. Son 26 was sitting next to me. I was back row center. Jim was dead on about left intent and tactics . We all have to unite and make it a one issue objective. My 26 year old has like minded friends, same age, veteran voters, newer gun owners.

 

[Saltwater60]

Looks like a no sale as I still saw it in your Chevy. Anyhow, on to the real matter.

I've never been to something like this before. Decided to listen and not speak. Here was my observations:
1. Organizers are aware of the lefts tactics and goals.
2. There was one thing missing from the room that the left seems to have an abundance of: Youth.
I don't remember seeing one face under 40 and the majority seemed to be 50+ years old. You have a HUGE generation gap here.

Old school parents and others old enough to be their children. This generation has solid moral values and doesn't want to know anything about Twitter or Assbook, and frankly neither do I.

It's also obvious our side of the coin is aware of the financial disadvantage it has, and I think that needs to be focused on acutely. Understand this fact and learn a way around it.

I don't have all the answers but I know TV ads, billboards, and bellyaching isn't going to get the job done. Voting is important, and EVERYONE who isn't happy with the status quo needs to vote, and honestly speak to others who need to get off the couch and vote as well.

I don't think the minds of our "youth" (and I'm talking University age here) can be led to the water. There's too many brainwashers out there and they don't have enough life experience to know any better yet. I believe this has to be won in the courts with the hopes that those in the system have even one shred of pride and decency left to do the right thing.

Talk to today's middle and high school kids. As Jim mentioned, get American history BACK into the curriculum and listen to (and ask) what teachers are saying and pay attention. Go out of your way to introduce younger kids to learn about gun safety, target shooting, hunting, etc so that everyone they see a gun they don't run screaming down the street in terror. Somewhere the tradition and passed knowledge and ideals have been lost. Until they come back, it's going to be a steep hill.

The good news is I did sell it. I met him in the parking lot at 4:15. Didn’t even try to low ball me or haggle. Paid full price. He knew it was a nice kayak in good shape. You should have come over and said hi.

Also for the town hall it was not what I expected either. I did notice most were older. I’m 37 though so I know there were a few under 40.

I think our major issues are we are being out spent and out advertised. I think there are way more progun folks than we are lead to believe and the media leads us to believe. I start talking guns and I’m astonished by how many people are gun owners and like minded. Even younger folks.

I also think the facts are on our side and many people just pay attention to headline that are misleading and the news. Ask anyone how many people are killed yearly with riffles. I’ll bet they say 4-10 times the amount. I told my dad who is a cop only 300 are killed with all riffles and shotguns and he replied what crazy website did you read that on. I said if I show you the fbi stays on murder will you believe me then? He almost shit a brick when I showed him.

I think this townhall was a big plug for the libertarian party and to get votes for them. That’s not why I went there.

I also disagree that teaching a second amendment ciriculum in school will accomplish anything. I feel this way because the liberals want to overturn or rewrite the second. I also see the news and social media where people know what the second means and say we’re not the militia so it doesn’t apply to us, people think the government will protect and provide for them, and people will still say we don’t need AR-15’s. Also many feel we can not defend against the current military anyway so that makes the second null and void.

I do agree we need to win over youngsters, but that starts with the media. Telling a kid for 30 minutes in school anything will not make up for the constant negative barrage they get on social media and the news daily.

This is the plan folks tell people enough guns are bad and give them no exposure to guns and they will believe they are bad. Just ask anyone form the uk and France they think guns just kill people. I took French people shooting and they could not believe it could be done safely. They enjoyed it and were surprised how safe it was.

I whole heartedly agree with introducing youngsters to guns safely.
The far left you will never convince, but I think 80% if given a positive experience with guns and the facts o think would be mostly progun. Maybe I’m optimistic, but I think only 10-20% are far left progressives even on guns. The media portrays it as the other way around, but I don’t believe it. My kids are very progun and all these shooting and killing games are extremely popular. Give a kid the chance to shoot some tannerite and they’d be thrilled.

 

[freddy]

The good news is I did sell it. I met him in the parking lot at 4:15. Didn’t even try to low ball me or haggle. Paid full price. He knew it was a nice kayak in good shape. You should have come over and said hi.

Also for the town hall it was not what I expected either. I did notice most were older. I’m 37 though so I know there were a few under 40.

I think our major issues are we are being out spent and out advertised. I think there are way more progun folks than we are lead to believe and the media leads us to believe. I start talking guns and I’m astonished by how many people are gun owners and like minded. Even younger folks.

I also think the facts are on our side and many people just pay attention to headline that are misleading and the news. Ask anyone how many people are killed yearly with riffles. I’ll bet they say 4-10 times the amount. I told my dad who is a cop only 300 are killed with all riffles and shotguns and he replied what crazy website did you read that on. I said if I show you the fbi stays on murder will you believe me then? He almost shit a brick when I showed him.

I think this townhall was a big plug for the libertarian party and to get votes for them. That’s not why I went there.

I also disagree that teaching a second amendment ciriculum in school will accomplish anything. I feel this way because the liberals want to overturn or rewrite the second. I also see the news and social media where people know what the second means and say we’re not the militia so it doesn’t apply to us, people think the government will protect and provide for them, and people will still say we don’t need AR-15’s. Also many feel we can not defend against the current military anyway so that makes the second null and void.

I do agree we need to win over youngsters, but that starts with the media. Telling a kid for 30 minutes in school anything will not make up for the constant negative barrage they get on social media and the news daily.

This is the plan folks tell people enough guns are bad and give them no exposure to guns and they will believe they are bad. Just ask anyone form the uk and France they think guns just kill people. I took French people shooting and they could not believe it could be done safely. They enjoyed it and were surprised how safe it was.

I whole heartedly agree with introducing youngsters to guns safely.
The far left you will never convince, but I think 80% if given a positive experience with guns and the facts o think would be mostly progun. Maybe I’m optimistic, but I think only 10-20% are far left progressives even on guns. The media portrays it as the other way around, but I don’t believe it. My kids are very progun and all these shooting and killing games are extremely popular. Give a kid the chance to shoot some tannerite and they’d be thrilled.

Would you explain more about the 'one issue objective'?

 

[Saltwater60]

Would you explain more about the 'one issue objective'?

Sorry what do you mean by one issue objective?

 

[ManrisFrack]

I also disagree that teaching a second amendment ciriculum in school will accomplish anything. I feel this way because the liberals want to overturn or rewrite the second. I also see the news and social media where people know what the second means and say we’re not the militia so it doesn’t apply to us, people think the government will protect and provide for them, and people will still say we don’t need AR-15’s. Also many feel we can not defend against the current military anyway so that makes the second null and void.

I do agree we need to win over youngsters, but that starts with the media. Telling a kid for 30 minutes in school anything will not make up for the constant negative barrage they get on social media and the news daily.

I hear what you're saying but 30 minutes is better than the zero minutes that they currently get. If we could manage to get an Eddie Eagle presentation that's as universal as the fire drill presentations, we'd have a good start. You'd think that kind of thing would be a no-brainer because it's 100% about safety and preventing accidents. End it with, "I know some of you will be curious about guns but using them safely is an enormous responsibility. When your parents say you're old enough, bring your Mom or Dad to [local range] and we'll be happy to give all of you an introduction to safely using guns." Or plug the shooting team (maybe even as just spectators), or a club that lets kids participate.

We've got a LOT of ground to retake. What state is this discussion in on a national level? Is this a topic at NRA board meetings? Are there panels on the subject at the annual meeting? 'Cause there damn well should be.

 

[Saltwater60]

I hear what you're saying but 30 minutes is better than the zero minutes that they currently get. If we could manage to get an Eddie Eagle presentation that's as universal as the fire drill presentations, we'd have a good start. You'd think that kind of thing would be a no-brainer because it's 100% about safety and preventing accidents. End it with, "I know some of you will be curious about guns but using them safely is an enormous responsibility. When your parents say you're old enough, bring your Mom or Dad to [local range] and we'll be happy to give all of you an introduction to safely using guns." Or plug the shooting team (maybe even as just spectators), or a club that lets kids participate.

We've got a LOT of ground to retake. What state is this discussion in on a national level? Is this a topic at NRA board meetings? Are there panels on the subject at the annual meeting? 'Cause there damn well should be.

I agree with you. I don’t think it’s enough though.

 

[holdover]

Sorry I didn't make it, But if I wanted to sway the most people to my side as effectively and cheaply as a I could, I would use social media. This is where the kids are, this is where a lot of people spend their time. Social media is the beer halls of yesterday, Where people voice their opinions and arguments on everything, this is where they can be heard . This is where the battleground is. Trump exploited this in his campaign with devastating results . What we need , for lack of a better word, is propaganda the medium is there to exploit , and the left has exploited it with no resistance from the right. If you want to change someone's opinion, then you have to get in their head. Information is vital. You give them the information and they will take it back into the classroom and online with them and argue it out. We are a silent minority. We have almost no political platforms . The way the left views us , is sick gun loving idiots . That's their view us. They don't see us as patriots , they have no understanding of why the second amendment exists or The principles that made us such a great country .The battle for their minds is going to be fought online. I would confer with people who know more about the internet and marketing or advertising for advice . I would try videos with chicks in micro bikinis talking about the things that made us great ( Just an Idea)


“Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

 

[Saltwater60]

Sorry I didn't make it, But if I wanted to sway the most people to my side as effectively and cheaply as a I could, I would use social media. This is where the kids are, this is where a lot of people spend their time. Social media is the beer halls of yesterday, Where people voice their opinions and arguments on everything, this is where they can be heard . This is where the battleground is. Trump exploited this in his campaign with devastating results . What we need , for lack of a better word, is propaganda the medium is there to exploit , and the left has exploited it with no resistance from the right. If you want to change someone's opinion, then you have to get in their head. Information is vital. You give them the information and they will take it back into the classroom and online with them and argue it out. We are a silent minority. We have almost no political platforms . The way the left views us , is sick gun loving idiots . That's their view us. They don't see us as patriots , they have no understanding of why the second amendment exists or The principles that made us such a great country .The battle for their minds is going to be fought online. I would confer with people who know more about the internet and marketing or advertising for advice . I would try videos with chicks in micro bikinis talking about the things that made us great ( Just an Idea)


“Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Agreed. I use twitter and most liberals I tell facts to do not respond because they know they are wrong. They also sometime respond with I didn’t know that please post whatever to back that up. I do and they are surprised.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Sorry I didn't make it, But if I wanted to sway the most people to my side as effectively and cheaply as a I could, I would use social media. This is where the kids are, this is where a lot of people spend their time. Social media is the beer halls of yesterday, Where people voice their opinions and arguments on everything, this is where they can be heard . This is where the battleground is. Trump exploited this in his campaign with devastating results . What we need , for lack of a better word, is propaganda the medium is there to exploit , and the left has exploited it with no resistance from the right. If you want to change someone's opinion, then you have to get in their head. Information is vital. You give them the information and they will take it back into the classroom and online with them and argue it out. We are a silent minority. We have almost no political platforms . The way the left views us , is sick gun loving idiots . That's their view us. They don't see us as patriots , they have no understanding of why the second amendment exists or The principles that made us such a great country .The battle for their minds is going to be fought online. I would confer with people who know more about the internet and marketing or advertising for advice . I would try videos with chicks in micro bikinis talking about the things that made us great ( Just an Idea)


“Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

I have no doubt that social media is where the game is at, I just absofuckinlutely hate the thought of getting any closer to those assholes with their AssBook and Twiddler BS. I swore I didn't need it and would never be a part of it. After all, I feel like social media and oversaturation of technology is what brought our kids to where we are right now. Is it really worth swallowing my pride, breaking down, and signing up for the greater good?

Wrong or right? Not to mention they seem to have all the right and ability to control what they want broadcast on THEIR platform. Youtube has already changed their policies on what they will allow to be broadcast, why not the other two?

Supposing you are even able to get them to listen to your facts or information. What's going to cause them to reject what some halfcocked, uninformed, ignorant snowflake fed them that already has them raging mad against guns, gun owners, ANYTHING gun related, and any mention of protecting the 2A? I'm not trying to be a pessimist, or fight amongst ourselves, but I haven't found the "right" answer just yet.

 

[holdover]

Im with you Carlos, I don't use it . Although I do watch you tube videos and read the comments , Read various news papers that's about it for me.

But if you want to hit the most people as possible as cheaply as possible You cant beat it ,

 

[Saltwater60]

I have no doubt that social media is where the game is at, I just absofuckinlutely hate the thought of getting any closer to those assholes with their AssBook and Twiddler BS. I swore I didn't need it and would never be a part of it. After all, I feel like social media and oversaturation of technology is what brought our kids to where we are right now. Is it really worth swallowing my pride, breaking down, and signing up for the greater good?

Wrong or right? Not to mention they seem to have all the right and ability to control what they want broadcast on THEIR platform. Youtube has already changed their policies on what they will allow to be broadcast, why not the other two?

Supposing you are even able to get them to listen to your facts or information. What's going to cause them to reject what some halfcocked, uninformed, ignorant snowflake fed them that already has them raging mad against guns, gun owners, ANYTHING gun related, and any mention of protecting the 2A? I'm not trying to be a pessimist, or fight amongst ourselves, but I haven't found the "right" answer just yet.

I find posting reliable links makes the think. Those raging mad liberals you won’t change their mind. There are many posts on this site and others where people have rational conversations with liberals about guns and thier minds get changed. There’s one on here now.

 

[FrankenCub]

Is it really worth swallowing my pride, breaking down, and signing up for the greater good?

Yes, it is. I am friends with a guy originally from Australia, now in the UK. He was very opposed to any type of firearm, and being a Buddhist made things a bit harder as his train of thought towards any type of violence is different than anyone else. I've known him for probably 10 years through another website that we were both Admins of. A mutual friend, also a former Admin on the same site, but very pro-gun, have been working on our anti-gun friend for at least 4 years. Every time he would post a comment on a post one of us pro-gun guys made, we would counter him with facts and links so he could verify for himself, and not take it as someone's own opinion. He is coming around nicely, finally realizing no matter the object used in the crime, it's still a human behind it that would just as easily use something else when certain weapons of choice aren't available. The crazy increase in stabbings in the UK help our side tremendously. Up until recently he wouldn't even consider an AR should be available to citizens. He's even coming around on that now that my other friend and I have repeatedly pointed out the lies being spread on all of the media about them. He's to the point now that if he were closer to one of us, he'd go to a range with us for some safety and trigger time.
He is the kind of liberal I like. One with an opening mind.

 

[Saltwater60]

Yes, it is. I am friends with a guy originally from Australia, now in the UK. He was very opposed to any type of firearm, and being a Buddhist made things a bit harder as his train of thought towards any type of violence is different than anyone else. I've known him for probably 10 years through another website that we were both Admins of. A mutual friend, also a former Admin on the same site, but very pro-gun, have been working on our anti-gun friend for at least 4 years. Every time he would post a comment on a post one of us pro-gun guys made, we would counter him with facts and links so he could verify for himself, and not take it as someone's own opinion. He is coming around nicely, finally realizing no matter the object used in the crime, it's still a human behind it that would just as easily use something else when certain weapons of choice aren't available. The crazy increase in stabbings in the UK help our side tremendously. Up until recently he wouldn't even consider an AR should be available to citizens. He's even coming around on that now that my other friend and I have repeatedly pointed out the lies being spread on all of the media about them. He's to the point now that if he were closer to one of us, he'd go to a range with us for some safety and trigger time.
He is the kind of liberal I like. One with an opening mind.

I think most liberals are like this. Think about it if you don’t have anyone to tell you the truth about guns all you hear or see is the media. The media clearly is anti gun and/or posts all negative content about guns. Also if your afraid of guns because of the negative press why would you go shoot one?

I’ve experienced this scenario many times. It works. You have to be polite and patient though.

 

[freddy]

Would you explain more about the 'one issue objective'?

Sorry. Meant this for @Deplorable Me

 

[Saltwater60]

Sorry. Meant this for @Deplorable Me

No worries I was just confused. Thanks for confirming I’m not crazy.

 

[Justincase]

You know, I've been wondering lately, why it is that nearly ALL teenagers and maybe even younger, and MOST twenty somethings play video games that involve shooting. I don't think I have one male student who doesn't play Fortnight. Even many of the girls play it. They're always talking about the FN Scar and other guns you can get, but almost none of them develop any interest in eventually shooting the real things. Why is that? Are they so averse to actual outdoor or physical stuff, or do they really think that all these things are good for is shooting up people? If I knew that I didn't have any babies who would go home and cry to mom and dad about a particular topic I brought up, I would ask them if they have any interest in shooting the real thing for fun. I really am curious as to why they're totally into guns in video games, but when it comes to real life, they have no interest.

 

[Dinkus the Stinkus]

You know, I've been wondering lately, why it is that nearly ALL teenagers and maybe even younger, and MOST twenty somethings play video games that involve shooting. I don't think I have one male student who doesn't play Fortnight. Even many of the girls play it. They're always talking about the FN Scar and other guns you can get, but almost none of them develop any interest in eventually shooting the real things. Why is that? Are they so averse to actual outdoor or physical stuff, or do they really think that all these things are good for is shooting up people? If I knew that I didn't have any babies who would go home and cry to mom and dad about a particular topic I brought up, I would ask them if they have any interest in shooting the real thing for fun. I really am curious as to why they're totally into guns in video games, but when it comes to real life, they have no interest.

As someone who grew up playing tons of video games with guns and still does play them I can say this. I always had interest in shooting the real things but wasn't offered the opportunity easily because of being in a very anti gun household. Even airsoft was a tough sell on my parents while we were children.

I agree though it would be interesting to see how many are like me and how many just like the games and don't care for guns irl.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Sorry. Meant this for @Deplorable Me

One issue. Vote 2A only and put other issues aside. No fighting over say pro hemp vs anti hemp. Be a 2A supporter say over Catholic ideals. Many Libertarian ideals clash with Conservative ideals. Be a union person but vote 2A first. For some it will be tough.

 

[ManrisFrack]

And now there's a bill in the NYS Senate to ban marksmanship and shooting programs in public schools!

NY State Assembly Bill A10428

 

[Justincase]

You know, I've been wondering lately, why it is that nearly ALL teenagers and maybe even younger, and MOST twenty somethings play video games that involve shooting. I don't think I have one male student who doesn't play Fortnight. Even many of the girls play it. They're always talking about the FN Scar and other guns you can get, but almost none of them develop any interest in eventually shooting the real things. Why is that? Are they so averse to actual outdoor or physical stuff, or do they really think that all these things are good for is shooting up people? If I knew that I didn't have any babies who would go home and cry to mom and dad about a particular topic I brought up, I would ask them if they have any interest in shooting the real thing for fun. I really am curious as to why they're totally into guns in video games, but when it comes to real life, they have no interest.

So, I had the opportunity to bring it up without it being completely out of the blue and I did ask all the kids who play shooting games to raise their hands. I asked all those with their hands up to keep them up of they think guns in any form should be banned, or if they thought guns were bad and you know what? Not one of them kept their hands up. It wasn't even like a couple trickled down and the other kids saw it and lowered theirs too, it was an instantaneous, synchronized drop. These kids are not anti gun like we are made to believe. We need somehow, to turn these games into actually getting kids into the shooting sports. Maybe get first person shooter game manufacturers to try to rid themselves of the notion that these games lead to shootings and advocate for and/or offer sponsorship of various youth marksmanship/hunting programs to teach kids to respect firearms and learn the proper and common usage of them. I know they will likely not want to touch this with a ten foot pole, but the time will come when the game makers are found to be culpable not only in public opinion, but also in a court of law after a shooting. Perhaps they can preempt this by educating their customers and turning them into responsible citizens instead of vilified youth. Just a thought.

 

[Jim Ostrowski]

Our brief on appeal in LP v. Cuomo, a case challenging the Sullivan Act, has been filed. See below.

The case will be argued in the Second Circuit in Manhattan at a date to be announced. Many activities will be planned for that day, including a rally outside the courthouse and a press conference after.

This case is being done a shoestring by grassroots activists. If you like the aggressive style of the brief, please feel free to make a small donation. Thanks.

Our ultimate goal is to get to the Supreme Court.

Click here to support N.Y. Unlawful Gun Law, Challenge organized by David Mongielo