Serializing Frames (NYS Law)

pshift

pshift

.338 Win Mag
Messages
9,091
Reaction score
26,827
Location
Stalag 13
Unless I read this incorrectly, there may be a way to 'properly register' your out-of-state unserialized handgun to make it legal in NYS (why would anyone want to do that anyways). It also appears that this does not apply to regular folk who are not gunsmiths, etc. Thoughts and apologies if this has been addressed in previous threads.


Penal Law Section 265.07
Registration and serialization of firearms, rifles, shotguns, finished frames or receivers, and unfinished frames or receivers​

(1)​

For the purposes of this section, “unfinished frame or receiver” means any unserialized material that does not constitute the frame or receiver of a firearm, rifle or shotgun but that has been shaped or formed in any way for the purpose of becoming the frame or receiver of a firearm, rifle or shotgun, and which may readily be made into a functional frame or receiver through milling, drilling or other means.

(2)​

On or before the effective date of this section, and promptly upon taking possession thereof at any time thereafter, any person licensed as a gunsmith, or required to be, or a dealer in firearms pursuant to section 400.00 of this chapter, who is in possession of an unserialized firearm, rifle, shotgun, finished frame or receiver, or unfinished frame or receiver shall:

(a)​

engrave, cast, stamp or otherwise conspicuously place both a unique serial number and his or her name (or recognized abbreviation) on such firearm, rifle, shotgun, finished frame or receiver, or unfinished frame or receiver, in a manner that satisfies or exceeds the requirements imposed on licensed importers and manufacturers pursuant to section (i) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto at the time of such assembly; and

(b)​

register with the division of criminal justice services in accordance with regulations promulgated by such division any such firearm, rifle or shotgun, finished frame or receiver, or unfinished frame or receiver. Any person licensed as a gunsmith, or required to be, or a dealer in firearms pursuant to section 400.00 of this chapter who fails to comply with the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a class E felony.
 
Cavalry

Cavalry

.338 Win Mag
Messages
5,167
Reaction score
9,043
Location
Behind Enemy Lines
Yes there is a legal path, but its not very viable IMO. NY states a gunsmith or dealer can do it, but the reality is Federally only a manufacturer (07FFL) can manufacture. The more important thing is would a 07FFL even engrave his information and put it on his books for a frame that will not be completed in their shop? Reputation wise that is a terrible idea let alone from a liability standpoint. Even if one could convince a shop to put it on the books I do not believe they can, only firearms can be transferred and Federally its not.
 
Last edited:
kev74

kev74

20×102mm Vulcan
Messages
49,982
Reaction score
158,149
Location
Orange Co.
My reading of the law...

If someone bought a 80% rifle lower in a free state, and stamped a serial number on it - 001 for example - it would no longer be unserialized, and could be lawfully brought into and possessed in NYS. Since it already had a serial number, it wouldn't have to comply with federal marking requirements or be registered with the division of criminal justice services.

How they would determine where and when the serial number was applied, I don't know.

A pistol would have to be brought in through an FFL.
 
Cavalry

Cavalry

.338 Win Mag
Messages
5,167
Reaction score
9,043
Location
Behind Enemy Lines
kev74 said:
My reading of the law...

If someone bought a 80% rifle lower in a free state, and stamped a serial number on it - 001 for example - it would no longer be unserialized, and could be lawfully brought into and possessed in NYS. Since it already had a serial number, it wouldn't have to comply with federal marking requirements or be registered with the division of criminal justice services. How they would determine where and when the serial number was applied, I don't know.
Click to expand...

Laser engravers are pretty reasonable these days...Just saying HH.jpg
 
kev74

kev74

20×102mm Vulcan
Messages
49,982
Reaction score
158,149
Location
Orange Co.
Funny part about this law - if you have some expensive, rare, collectable firearm without a serial number, and you were to bring it to a gunsmith for maintenance, they can't give it back to you without defacing it with their harbor freight number punch kit. Honk honk!!
 
Cavalry

Cavalry

.338 Win Mag
Messages
5,167
Reaction score
9,043
Location
Behind Enemy Lines
kev74 said:
Funny part about this law - if you have some expensive, rare, collectable firearm without a serial number, and you were to bring it to a gunsmith for maintenance, they can't give it back to you without defacing it with their harbor freight number punch kit. Honk honk!!
Click to expand...
If only there was a legal avenue for such services. .003" which is the minimum is not very deep, essentially just enough for ones fingernail to catch. It could be laser engraved and then a similar file laser engraved over the top to disrupt the original pattern. It would need to be refinished as original and unless very exotic it would never be noticed.
Gomer beating the piss out of something with his horrible freight letter set is another story all together, I cant fix that easily.
 
kev74

kev74

20×102mm Vulcan
Messages
49,982
Reaction score
158,149
Location
Orange Co.
Cavalry said:
If only there was a legal avenue for such services. .003" which is the minimum is not very deep, essentially just enough for ones fingernail to catch. It could be laser engraved and then a similar file laser engraved over the top to disrupt the original pattern. It would need to be refinished as original and unless very exotic it would never be noticed.
Gomer beating the piss out of something with his horrible freight letter set is another story all together, I cant fix that easily.
Click to expand...
The legal avenue would be not to use a NY gunsmith for an old, collectable gun without a serial number.
 
R

Rocpo

.44 mag
Messages
962
Reaction score
2,199
Location
Column 5
It says "licensed as a gunsmith". I wasn't aware of a licensing process for a gunsmith.
I may take a Glock Armorer's class later this year. Would that qualify me as a "licensed gunsmith" if Glock certifies me?
 
dsdmmat

dsdmmat

Donut Master
Moderator
Messages
11,457
Reaction score
25,996
Location
Alpha Quadrant, Sector 001
Rocpo said:
It says "licensed as a gunsmith". I wasn't aware of a licensing process for a gunsmith.
I may take a Glock Armorer's class later this year. Would that qualify me as a "licensed gunsmith" if Glock certifies me?
Click to expand...
No you have to apply to the ATF for a gunsmith license. Once you pay the fee and they approve it, you are a licensed gunsmith. The class might actually make you know what you are doing.
So many bubba gunsmiths out there with a FFL and a dremel tool.

Gunsmiths | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Answers to some common questions on the definitions of a gunsmith, licensing and recordkeeping requirements.
www.atf.gov www.atf.gov
 
Last edited:
Cavalry

Cavalry

.338 Win Mag
Messages
5,167
Reaction score
9,043
Location
Behind Enemy Lines
dsdmmat said:
No you have to apply to the ATF for a gunsmith license. Once you pay the fee and they approve it, you are a licensed gunsmith. The class might actually make you know what you are doing.
So many bubba gunsmiths out there with a FFL and a dremel tool.

Gunsmiths | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Answers to some common questions on the definitions of a gunsmith, licensing and recordkeeping requirements.
www.atf.gov www.atf.gov
Click to expand...
There is not a separate federal "gunsmith license". They would need to have a 01,02 or 07 FFL. Most smiths are working for a retail location or also selling so its not really a problem, they already have it.
NY has a separate license for dealers and gunsmiths, but that has nothing to do with the federal license other than they need permission twice to make a living.
 
dsdmmat

dsdmmat

Donut Master
Moderator
Messages
11,457
Reaction score
25,996
Location
Alpha Quadrant, Sector 001
Cavalry said:
There is not a separate federal "gunsmith license". They would need to have a 01,02 or 07 FFL. Most smiths are working for a retail location or also selling so its not really a problem, they already have it.
NY has a separate license for dealers and gunsmiths, but that has nothing to do with the federal license other than they need permission twice to make a living.
Click to expand...
Yep.
Federally: A licensed Gunsmith is someone with an FFL who works on guns. That is why I mentioned “bubba with a Dremel and an FFL,” at the end of my post.

State laws vary like politicians.
in NC you have to have an FFL.
In NY you have to obtain a NY Dealer-gunsmith license as well as the FFL.
 
Cavalry

Cavalry

.338 Win Mag
Messages
5,167
Reaction score
9,043
Location
Behind Enemy Lines
dsdmmat said:
Yep.
Federally: A licensed Gunsmith is someone with an FFL who works on guns. That is why I mentioned “bubba with a Dremel and an FFL,” at the end of my post.

State laws vary like politicians.
in NC you have to have an FFL.
In NY you have to obtain a NY Dealer-gunsmith license as well as the FFL.
Click to expand...
Ahhh...I read your statement differently, as the fed was issuing a special license to gunsmiths, akin to a licensed electrician, not a FFL holder than happens to work on guns.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top