Seriously, Why do people think socialism is a good idea ?

[meketrefe]

It's a good point. I think you also need a mostly homogeneous population with many shared goals and beliefs.

None of those things exist in the US.

Yes that is key. The humans are hardwired to work in neural tribes that is why we have such problems is large cities and countries with so much diversity of ideas and corrupted oficials on top.
If you guys have netflix watch a documentsry called "the pursuit" ... not s great program but decent. I enjoyed it the other day. It debunks socialism unless certain conditions are met.
In the US will not work. We have too many corrupt leaders and officials and the lack of accountbility is our mantra.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Again, I ask- what is socialism? How are these people defining it? How are you defining it?

I know "what" it is, classically, but what we fighting here is rhetoric, not policy, and it seems not much in the way of the classic definition anyway (the means of production - of everything- are owned by the state, among other things).

 

[Catskillkid]

@Tisto No offense taken at all. For the record, this isn't what I think now (once upon a time I may have to a degree) but it's what a lot of my peers in my age cohort believe. The thing of it is, that many of my peers have grown up with the belief that was passed down by school officials and maybe parents that everyone is going to make something of themselves no matter what. They also were given the idea that things are "fair" when we know in reality they are not. The problem arises that now when you try to tell them this it's casting their entire belief systems into chaos and they won't believe you. In fact they will fight and challenge you on it (probably call you a racist and a fascist too while they're at it). Think of it like this, when Nazism or Soviet Communism fell, many didn't want to believe it. They were told their whole lives that THEIR system of government was the best and would always work...until it didn't. It's hard for someone to change their mind. Most people don't once it's made up, regardless of facts presented to them. That's where most of my age cohort is right now. Not saying it's right, just saying it's the reality. They'll follow the Hillary's and Bernie's into oblivion before they change their mind they've been so brainwashed.

@livingston Same as above. My age cohort will not believe any reliable facts/figures if it goes against their world view of "orange man bad." Again, it's sad, but it's a result of the brainwashing from the educational institutions and media elites. I will also add, that not all the jobs that are being created are "good" jobs in the sense that a solid middle class income can be earned by them. A lot of them area relatively low wage so the benefits really aren't there. College educated folks are frustrated that they have to work in food service of retail. Again, maybe they should have thought before they got that gender studies degree, but the fact remains they have it and were taught that they would become successful with it regardless of reality. There's nothing you or I can do to change their mind otherwise.

 

[livingston]

 

[meketrefe]

Again, I ask- what is socialism? How are these people defining it? How are you defining it?

I know "what" it is, classically, but what we fighting here is rhetoric, not policy, and it seems not much in the way of the classic definition anyway (the means of production - of everything- are owned by the state, among other things).

Democratic socialism is a democratic system of goverment, free markets and economy, very high taxes, all sort if social benefits and very good management for it to work, that rarely happens.
Another component that is very important and that other socialists do not mention when they refer to socialist systems thst work like Denmark is thst they are a lot smaller and they hate diversity. So think of them like a very large old village bonded by the same code of ethics and values. That is the key and why our demorats ideas will not work here.

 

[fresch]

Denmark.
Sales tax 5.5%
Income tax 55.8%

Sweden Personal Income Tax Rate | 2019 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast
Scroll down shows world by country rates. US 39/40%

 

[Marine Cpl]

If there is ever a SHTF total collapse where 3/4’s of the population dies, we will start out and rebuild as socialists. A former vet or nurse or podiatrist would be an all purpose doctor. A former IT guy would have to become a laborer or security soldier or help out someone who knows how to farm. At the end of the day, everyone would get equal portions to eat despite of how much easier or harder their new job actually is.

 

[fresch]

Depending on what resources, equipment was left.
On the farm you are everything already now.

 

[meketrefe]

If there is ever a SHTF total collapse where 3/4’s of the population dies, we will start out and rebuild as socialists. A former vet or nurse or podiatrist would be an all purpose doctor. A former IT guy would have to become a laborer or security soldier or help out someone who knows how to farm. At the end of the day, everyone would get equal portions to eat despite of how much easier or harder their new job actually is.

Not necessarily is all 100% equal although it is a matter of sharing responsibilities and benefits.
As tribes and villages through human history we have evolved in such way so individuals who risk the most might
have some preferential treatment.
We might let them choose the prime cut of meat and make them happy and comfortable around the fire.
But in the time of need or danger they are the ones taking the lead or defending.

The problem with current society, huge cities, globalization, etc.. is that as human species we are not psychologically and genetically ready to digest these complex large social systems and huge governments very well. We want the same things we always wanted but it is easy to function at a smaller scale as our brain and genetic code is hardwired to work in those small groups and tribes very well and why modern society is the source of so many problems. This is a subject of study in anthropology.

Simon Sinek explains very well here why we are how we are and how that translates to modern life, leadership at work and other things...