Shooting at Uvalde Texas elementary school

[Blimey]

No one is saying these mass shooters should have guns. They are clearly all mentally ill and every single time after the fact you always hear "the warning signs were there"

The buffalo one was psych evaluated. He still managed to buy a gun. How did that happen? The system failed.



Again, I'm willing to listen to raising the age to buy guns to 21. That's pretty much it.

They need to enforce the laws that currently exist, fix the system where it's broken.


There is no single one thing to fix this. It's a major problem and it may take many steps to correct. Our society is F'd.

We need to keep guns out of the hands of crazies
We need to understand how they got to this point
We need to prevent future kids from turning into evil monsters. This is going to make us have difficult discussions on what went wrong and how to fix it.

We need to compel people who perhaps have knowledge that these people are plotting an attack to report it. I know it won't stop a determined lone wolf who keeps his mouth shut but it may stop. Some.

We need to harden schools. We need to install resistant doors on all classrooms to lock them down. We need to limit access to schools. that 80 billion for Ukrainian would have been great for school hardening etc..

We need to allow those school employees who are willing to be trained and certified the ability to defend themselves and their students. I'm very much against "arming the teachers" but I'm very much in support of letting any school employees who are comfortable and willing to carry guns to be allowed to do so. It would be like an air marshal. Who knows maybe 3-5 employees at the school already have their pistol license and would now take additional training and be given certification to carry on school property.

I dunno maybe even design some sort of incapacitating plan. Let teachers who won't carry guns be able to carry tasers or have some type of bear spray or tear gas. I dunno just trying to get creative.

And remember these are comprehensive ideas to build an integrated way to prevent, identify, discouraged, reduce and mitigate the impact of shootings if they make it to that point.


We need to prevent evil people from ever getting to the point of turning into these monsters. We need to prevent them reaching a point where they have a thought process of "let's go kill kids" to then further degrading their ability to carry out their plans.

Just my .02 cents

I agree with much of this but there has to be an honest accounting of why this happens in the USA and not in Canada, France, Germany. And yes, those places do have mass-shootings. The worst ever was that dude in norway, but they are exceedingly rare. In Japan they have none (?).

Many gun owners hate licensing but the fact is licensed handgun owners in new york, for example, have to go through a process to get licensed. And the facts show they are exceedingly law-abiding. Not just beforehand, but subsequently. This guy wouldn't have been able to get a handgun license in new york. But even here he could still have bought a semi-auto rifle.

This is starting to really piss me off. More details are coming out

Sounds like the armed officers on scene cowered outside while the asshole was killing kids and others were bleeding out. A border patrol team eventually showed up perhaps 30 mins later and went in.

Wtf.

‘They were unprepared’: Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas school to confront gunman

About 30 minutes before the bloodbath, Salvador Ramos, 18, made three social-media posts, Texas Gov. Gregg Abbott said.

www.marketwatch.com

Yep...of the last two mass shootings armed response on the scene were unable to stop it from becoming a vile slaughter.

Unbelievably, cops engaged this guy, he got into the school, and they waited 60 minutes (!!!!!!!!!!) before finally gaining entrance at which point they put him down.

I have a 9 year old, so I know precisely what the parents of these kids are going through. He just evaporated the life out of most of an elementary school classroom.

The guy who did this was evil subhuman trash not worthy of being turned into dog food, but our society has a lot of these people and when all they have to do to turn their wrath into 19 dead kids is work at wendys for a few months we have a problem that must be resolved.

 

[JaguarJaguarGolf]

Saw my little sister yesterday (she’s 60), high school teacher, public school in MA. She doesn’t want to be armed in school. Drills they do have are confusing and inadequate.

 

[MothMan]

In Forschten’s novella Dies Irae: Day of Wrath by William R. Forstchen the parental urge was used against them to their demise.

This story was an eye opener and falls well within the realm of possibility. I suggest everyone read it before….

 

[spat]

100,000,000% Id have been going unarmed if need be.

I would have gone in.

I would not have been unarmed.

 

[JaguarJaguarGolf]

I went to a high school that had a rifle and pistol team. All students handled M-14 with bayonet at least once a week(more if you misbehaved). Some students handled firearms in the school everyday, we had a rifle range. We had an arms room. Some students had keys to both. We never had a accident much less a deliberate crime with any of these guns.

 

[spat]

Saw my little sister yesterday (she’s 60), high school teacher, public school in MA. She doesn’t want to be armed in school. Drills they do have are confusing and inadequate.

Would she prefer to be unarmed during an incident like this ?

If so, then she and people like her are the problem.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Saw my little sister yesterday (she’s 60), high school teacher, public school in MA. She doesn’t want to be armed in school. Drills they do have are confusing and inadequate.

Totally fine. Many people are not cut out to be able to be armed. That's fine. No shame in that people have to know their limitations.



On the flip side I absolutely think school employees who are capable of and have a desire to carry should be allowed to.

 

[JaguarJaguarGolf]

Would she prefer to be unarmed during an incident like this ?

If so, then she and people like her are the problem.

She has no experience handling firearms. She is a gentle soul. Much different than my older sister who has kicked off her high heels, vaulted a subway turnstile in a dress, chased down and beat the crap out of a healthy young thug.
I believe there are many people like my little sister. To view them as a problem does nothing to solve the issue under discussion. Not everyone can be a warrior and those that can’t usually very much know they cannot be one.
Somehow we must turn people like my little sister to recognise the benefits of having normal, good people who are willing to step into the breech be armed every day every where.

 

[spat]

She has no experience handling firearms. She is a gentle soul. Much different than my older sister who has kicked off her high heels, vaulted a subway turnstile in a dress, chased down and beat the crap out of a healthy young thug.
I believe there are many people like my little sister. To view them as a problem does nothing to solve the issue under discussion. Not everyone can be a warrior and those that can’t usually very much know they cannot be one.
Somehow we must turn people like my little sister to recognise the benefits of having normal, good people who are willing to step into the breech be armed every day every where.

Doesn't matter if you are a warrior spirit or not.

When the fight comes to you you must be prepared to deal with it.

It doesn't matter if you hate the water or not, you fall in the lake you swim or drown. It's the same thing.

Imagine falling in a lake and saying "I hate swimming, so I'm not going to even try it. I'm just going to complain that nobody is saving me".

 

[Cooolone]

Yeah, I had seen that earlier and got sick to my stomach when I read it...

For a badged officer, or any armed peace officer, to sit idly by and wait for anything, while an active shooter event is taking place, regardless of where, is reprehensible these days. Compound that x1000 if it's a school!

Only the lowliest of low, empty soul, no backbone Jellyfish Wet Noodle piece of shit would sit and wait... Active shooter training or not! Especially that the LE officer would KNOW there's no firearms or protection on school grounds and that OUTSIDE help would be the only way to mitigate the situation. FORCE ON FORCE!!! Overwhelming Force, isn't that the way!?!

It's very conceivable that those officers who held their ground and didn't act could be culpable in those deaths! Civilly, in any event. They should surrender their badges effective immediately!

And yes, even for an average citizen, there is no legal requirement to act, some countries that's not true! But once you raise your hand, take that badge, you have a duty, not a convenience! You get all the perks (lol), and there's time(s) when those chips come due!

Not sure what to make of it... I support LE 1000% just can't understand why they would wait... For what? Fuckers! We all can profess whatever we think, but nobody really knows how they'd react to this type of situation. Again, that's no excuse. Don't take the job of you are not willing to engage completely and with abandon to protect those who cannot protect themselves, here, that being CHILDREN!

/end rant...

 

[Vapor]

It's simply disgusting. I couldn't sit by and let any group of harmless, defenseless people suffer.

 

[Rap]

In Forschten’s novella Dies Irae: Day of Wrath by William R. Forstchen the parental urge was used against them to their demise.

This story was an eye opener and falls well within the realm of possibility. I suggest everyone read it before….

Sometimes there are no options and it may be necessary to enter into what seems to be a death trap. Did you glean any useful insights from the story/thought experiment?

 

[meketrefe]

Would that really solve it?

Would a non-woke education system stop this latest nutjob? He had a drug addict mother, no father, a history of being bullied and our media's fascination with 24/7 coverage of mass shootings? I'm skeptical education reform alone can impact that situation.

When things are bad at home and the system has to step in it is already too late. It doesn't mean everyone w/o a father and mother has to end up like this but it normally it requires someone to step in like grandparents or some good decent family or friends who know how to raise a kid with structure and love.

This is one of the biggest issues we have. Too many broken homes with kids who are born in a disaster home.

I dont oppose abortion when there is no heartbeat or brain yet. I know is controversial but many of these kids never got a chance. We dont even know if the system tried something and if they did they maybe made it worse.

One thing is clear we better lock down and beef up security in schools big time before the next wacko strikes.

Also how do you find folks of questionable moral character or even total nut jobs? We screen people who drive trucks and trains full of gasoline or hazardous materials. What can be done about any person even the most unsuspected and specially those who are in such bad shape that perhaps should be in an institution and not walking the streets?
How do we do that w/o violating peoples rights and privacy?
Some tests I did before I entered the service were designed to rate ones mental and technical abilities and flush out nut jobs.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Sometimes there are no options and it may be necessary to enter into what seems to be a death trap. Did you glean any useful insights form the story/thought experiment?

100%.
As a parent If you are any type of mom or dad worthy of the name, if your child is in mortal danger you will move heaven and earth to save them or die trying.

 

[Uninformed and Compliant]

Starting to sound like there should have been a few shootings outside the school as well.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Starting to sound like there should have been a few shootings outside the school as well.


View attachment 160125 View attachment 160126

Link to that story ??


My God.

I'm speechless

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Police narrative on Texas school shooting in question as new details emerge

The official account of what happened during a shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, is under scrutiny following the reporting of new details.

www.yahoo.com

There were five or six of [us] fathers, hearing the gunshots, and [police officers] were telling us to move back,” Cazares told the Washington Post. “We didn’t care about us. We wanted to storm the building. We were saying, ‘Let’s go,’ because that is how worried we were, and we wanted to get our babies out.”

The aunt of one of the victims told the New York Times that her niece’s stepfather was restrained and handcuffed by police when he attempted to help her.


the AP’s story, showing police restraining parents outside the school,

 

[Uninformed and Compliant]

Link to that story ??


My God.

I'm speechless

Watch at your own peril.

Witness: Police Stood Outside the School While Mass Murderer Salvador Ramos Went on Killing Spree - Armed Police Pinned One Man to the Ground (VIDEO)

 

[Celt]

That teacher does sort of have a point. Many of those that hurl all types of slurs at teachers like "groomer", etc. now want to give them guns? Make up your damn mind.

Perfect example, who said ALL teachers have to be armed? Your statement is ridiculous. Its always been allowing those who want to be to be able to. Ive never heard anyone say they want the 70 year old lesbian with purple hair and a rainbow flag in her classroom to carry a gun against her will.

 

[Vapor]

My older borther is a teacher.


He's had a pistol permit since the 80s.


I'm sure he'd be happy to be an armed resource.


He can't even have a Swiss army knife at work.

 

[Uninformed and Compliant]

TheOnion is brutalizing those officers.

 

[Defilade]

I guess the "First Responders" Need an hour Sit-Rep prior to entry. Maybe conduct a few drills before they can take off their chicken suits.

 

[turbobike]

Well I am a permited conceal carry HS Teacher...I wish they would let me...

 

[tirwin1]

So....

Let me get this straight.


An armed sworn police officer, who's job is to be a school resource officer to protect students, saw the asshole crash his car into a ditch, and proceed to enter the school with rifles, and did not engage him????????????

W.T.F.

This asshole should have been given a dirt nap in the parking lot before ever making it to the door. This tragedy should have been stopped before it happened.

It would have been a murder of a grandmother and stopped there.


If events are as reported there I have a real problem with how this was handled.

If true then this is sickening. Between this guy and the coward from Broward it reveals that armed officers are not the solution. Is it just perceived as shit duty so only the useless cops are assigned there? Better to have armed volunteers willing to risk their lives than lazy civil servants who view the job as a cakewalk to retirement.

I know cops have no legal duty to protect us poor taxpayers. But stationing cops at schools is precisely for protection.

I guarantee at the next school shooting if the 40-60 minute waiting period is repeated armed parents will storm the school on their own.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

If true then this is sickening. Between this guy and the coward from Broward it reveals that armed officers are not the solution. Is it just perceived as shit duty so only the useless cops are assigned there? Better to have armed volunteers willing to risk their lives than lazy civil servants who view the job as a cakewalk to retirement.

I know cops have no legal duty to protect us poor taxpayers. But stationing cops at schools is precisely for protection.

I guarantee at the next school shooting if the 40-60 minute waiting period is repeated armed parents will storm the school on their own.

There's actually a video.

Parents were willing to rush in unarmed to go and try and save their kids and the police were restraining them, subduing them and threatening to taze them all in the parking lot instead of going after the gunman.

As a parent it's so distressing and sickening to see what they are going through. I just can't comprehend this.

 

[spat]

There's actually a video.

Parents were willing to rush in unarmed to go and try and save their kids and the police were restraining them, subduing them and threatening to taze them all in the parking lot instead of going after the gunman.

As a parent it's so distressing and sickening to see what they are going through. I just can't comprehend this.

Parents should have armed themselves and gone in anyway.

Police had already demonstrated that they weren't going to do anything to stop them once they were armed...

 

[RedBreast21]

Wow, some of these comments are rough. lol

I will wait until an investigation of the timeline of events is posted before coming to any conclusion. Hind sight is always 20/20 and Monday morning quarterbacking rampant with these events.

I do have questions of course, like many here, that I will be looking for answers to such as why the local PD didn't make entry immediately into the school. The FBI has studied these events in great detail and have determined that making entry as soon as two or more officers get to the scene forces the shooter to deal with that rather than allow them unlimited time to conduct the mayhem. FBI stats show that 85% of these shooters commit suicide in the end, and the remaining 15% had intent to. This is of course is what brought the FBI to conclude that making entry immediately when arriving on scene reduces casualties.
The movie "Bowling for Columbine" highlighted law enforcement's short comings with an over 2 hour delay before entering the school. This in stark contrast to the 2018 school shooting in Parkland where although the local PD failed to make entry on arrival choosing to sit outside, creating a perimeter and allowing the shooter more time to kill. But the Coral PD, from outside the district responded appropriately when arriving on scene. Forming an entry team and making entry within a minute of their arrival. That's how it's done.

If events like this are planned, these shooters know that they are on a clock. Anything anyone can do to disrupt that clock and add stress to the shooter mind set is a good thing. This IMHO would included a loud announcement. If you all get my suppressing drift.

Of course we all know that a real discussion with all Americans is impossible with the media's death grip hold on a large number of useful idiots. But we need to have it. These events are a cultural issue and no one can dispute that since the data of the past shows the problem didn't exist 35 and more years ago. The Millennial and Gen Z groups need hard looking at and the failures of Gen X and late Boomers acknowledged.

All these generations play the blame game. It's easiest now to blame the gun.

 

[Darth]

I just heard that ugly beaver faced bitch tried to raise the age to buy ARs to 21.

When questioned how that would work, given CAs recent law getting struck down, she had the audacity to say "I know it might get shot down, but I say pass it anyway to save lives."

At a BARE MINIMUM, any government official saying that on the public record should be INSTANTLY removed from office, no questions asked (1A doesn't protect the government) for life. At a bare minimum.

That is the definition of tyranny." I don't care if the law constitution says no, I say yes."

 

[Celt]

I just heard that ugly beaver faced bitch tried to raise the age to buy ARs to 21.

When questioned how that would work, given CAs recent law getting struck down, she had the audacity to say "I know it might get shot down, but I say pass it anyway to save lives."

At a BARE MINIMUM, any government official saying that on the public record should be INSTANTLY removed from office, no questions asked (1A doesn't protect the government) for life. At a bare minimum.

That is the definition of tyranny." I don't care if the law constitution says no, I say yes."

And they should be held financially responsible for all legal fees needed to get it stricken down.

 

[RedBreast21]

I just heard that ugly beaver faced bitch tried to raise the age to buy ARs to 21.

When questioned how that would work, given CAs recent law getting struck down, she had the audacity to say "I know it might get shot down, but I say pass it anyway to save lives."

At a BARE MINIMUM, any government official saying that on the public record should be INSTANTLY removed from office, no questions asked (1A doesn't protect the government) for life. At a bare minimum.

That is the definition of tyranny." I don't care if the law constitution says no, I say yes."

I heard some congress person say the same thing. Raise the age to 21 since both cigarettes and alcohol require the person of at least 21. Great then. Raise the age for military draft and service to 21. While you're at it, raise the voting age to 21. But no.....they want the voting age lowered to 16 lol