Should We Blindly Support the Police?

[SonOfSun]

When does a small group become large?

 

[Truebeliever]

Right, the permit requirements were useless.

They could have been arrested for the wholesale criminal behavior even without permit requirements if the DA had the will, and the permit requirements were useless in stopping them with a DA that didn't want to persue it.

Therefore, the permit requirements are useless.

You don't need them to arrest criminals, and they don't stop criminals if the DA isn't going to enforce it anyway.

That’s a different subject as far as DA prosecution. If you got a parade permit based on a lie, it depends on the lie if it is to be used against the person.
Just as if the election board finds out you lied about your voter info, they can remove you from the voter rolls, so can the parade permit be revoked without a DA getting in or criminal charges.
The permit also tells what is expected as far as crowd turn out. That is rarely lied about because the applicant wants the biggest permit access they can get.
Now if one is to except 10,000 people, it can be planned accordingly as opposed to someone who wants a permit for 100.

The permit also reserves the spot for your protest and a counter-protest or different subject protest has to move over for yours.

 

[Truebeliever]

Fire code occupancy limits are BS as well.

They can set recommendations, but actual enforcement is a blatant violation of the right to assembly.

"they do this all the time" is not a compelling argument that something is a legitimate restriction when you're talking about a government that routinely violates rights.

The fire code isn’t BS especially if you have seen what happens at events where the crowd panicked and there were too many people. The event people are responsible for the number of people on a structure. The difference is if the government changed the code for what was being said inside instead of the design of the structure.
If you need space for more people, just pick a bigger structure or have it outside . That code has nothing to do with what is being said or done.

Think about it. By your standard, one could charge or give tickets, sell 10,000 for a place that only holds 100.
Are you against the ban on using loud speakers without a permit too?

 

[Acer-m14]

Nope, not at all.

CHAZ/CHOP was actual insurrection, not protest.

Tell me again how the permit system stopped them ?

Oh, that's right, it didn't at all.


They were a result of the DA allowing them to do that. Permit laws or not were irrelevant.

and the cops were ordered to stand down ,, yep .. just following orders .. let chaz/chop rock on ..

 

[Acer-m14]

. By your standard, one could charge or give tickets, sell 10,000 for a place that only holds 100.

airliners do that all the time .. lol

 

[Truebeliever]

airliners do that all the time .. lol

So true

 

[spat]

The fire code isn’t BS especially if you have seen what happens at events where the crowd panicked and there were too many people. The event people are responsible for the number of people on a structure. The difference is if the government changed the code for what was being said inside instead of the design of the structure.
If you need space for more people, just pick a bigger structure or have it outside . That code has nothing to do with what is being said or done.

Think about it. By your standard, one could charge or give tickets, sell 10,000 for a place that only holds 100.
Are you against the ban on using loud speakers without a permit too?

They can sell whatever tickets they want. Nobody has to buy them.

I am against any and all permits for anything. any act should either be legal or illegal. The government should absolutely not be allowed to convert a crime into a legal act with a permission slip.

So, either the speakers are too loud, or they aren't. Nobody in government should have the power to change that for a fee.

 

[spat]

That’s a different subject as far as DA prosecution. If you got a parade permit based on a lie, it depends on the lie if it is to be used against the person.
Just as if the election board finds out you lied about your voter info, they can remove you from the voter rolls, so can the parade permit be revoked without a DA getting in or criminal charges.
The permit also tells what is expected as far as crowd turn out. That is rarely lied about because the applicant wants the biggest permit access they can get.
Now if one is to except 10,000 people, it can be planned accordingly as opposed to someone who wants a permit for 100.

The permit also reserves the spot for your protest and a counter-protest or different subject protest has to move over for yours.

Oh I fully understand how it works, and why everyone on the government side wants it.

I am saying it should *not* work that way.

You're psrading out all the practical reasons that permitting schemes are useful.

I think that is all irrelevant, they should be forbidden for ideological reasons. No amount of practical consideration should ever Trump the liberty interest of the people. We settled that debate in 1776 when we said "we could just keep doing what the king says, it would be easy, but we're going to kill them instead".

 

[Truebeliever]

They can sell whatever tickets they want. Nobody has to buy them.

I am against any and all permits for anything. any act should either be legal or illegal. The government should absolutely not be allowed to convert a crime into a legal act with a permission slip.

So, either the speakers are too loud, or they aren't. Nobody in government should have the power to change that for a fee.

As far as the fire code and people don’t have to buy tickets, there is no way for those people to make an informed decision as to their safety . If you were among the first to enter, you would have no idea that the place is going to fill up with an overcapacity crowd and now it’s too late. And people have died as a result even if there’s no fire.
Again, go read the conditions needed for a permit and when you don’t need one. If you expect 10,000 people to show up to your protest, you know they can’t fit on the sidewalk . They will be in the streets . Streets have to be closed. There has to be ways to set up corridors of travel for people who don’t want to participate. That takes time and resources .
Again, let’s use an example. Bloomberg decides to hold a protest in front of a local gun store. He rents buses to bring people in. He doesn’t tell anyone where the protest will be so they can’t prepare those corridors of travel. Now 10,000 people are dumped in front of the LGS. He is now out of business. No way without preparation that there are corridors of travel. What about bathrooms- the streets will look like San Francisco with people doing in the streets. Those buses block all vehicle traffic including emergency traffic— not on purpose but just bumper to bumper traffic. Now those protesters couldn’t leave even if they wanted in any timely fashion depending on the traffic environment. Now the spill over traffic shuts down the local highways. Everyone is effected. That’s why there is a need to notify about the protests and the size. Also to give routes in which the protest can take place because certain areas can’t handle the numbers let alone the numbers of counter protestors or just the usual friday night commute home.
Your protest shouldn’t interfere with my life if I have and want nothing to do with it to the extent it’s possible.
It protects my rights to assemble, to worship, to get medical aid, food, etc.to the extent that it can . Your rights stop when they interfere with the rights of others. That’s what the permit is supposed to do. Balance those rights. If you are denied a permit or don’t like the condition, you get get them changed by a court to where they don’t interfere with other people’s rights.

Imagine if atheists did a protest in front of your church and blocked traffic for miles- not even intentionally but the sheer numbers and did it every Sunday.
Or they got a list of gun owners and choose to send those 10,000 people in front of your house. They can now protest in front of your house on the sidewalk ( if you have one) but can’t block street traffic but they will just with those number they can’t fit on the sidewalk and just the cars to get there will block traffic for miles.
Now you say, the police won’t do anything. That’s not true if the politicians don’t stop them. Go look at Occupy Wall Street. The police moved them.

 

[spat]

As far as the fire code and people don’t have to buy tickets, there is no way for those people to make an informed decision as to their safety . If you were among the first to enter, you would have no idea that the place is going to fill up with an overcapacity crowd and now it’s too late. And people have died as a result even if there’s no fire.
Again, go read the conditions needed for a permit and when you don’t need one. If you expect 10,000 people to show up to your protest, you know they can’t fit on the sidewalk . They will be in the streets . Streets have to be closed. There has to be ways to set up corridors of travel for people who don’t want to participate. That takes time and resources .
Again, let’s use an example. Bloomberg decides to hold a protest in front of a local gun store. He rents buses to bring people in. He doesn’t tell anyone where the protest will be so they can’t prepare those corridors of travel. Now 10,000 people are dumped in front of the LGS. He is now out of business. No way without preparation that there are corridors of travel. What about bathrooms- the streets will look like San Francisco with people doing in the streets. Those buses block all vehicle traffic including emergency traffic— not on purpose but just bumper to bumper traffic. Now those protesters couldn’t leave even if they wanted in any timely fashion depending on the traffic environment. Now the spill over traffic shuts down the local highways. Everyone is effected. That’s why there is a need to notify about the protests and the size. Also to give routes in which the protest can take place because certain areas can’t handle the numbers let alone the numbers of counter protestors or just the usual friday night commute home.
Your protest shouldn’t interfere with my life if I have and want nothing to do with it to the extent it’s possible. Imagine if atheists did a protest in front of your church and blocked traffic for miles- not even intentionally but the sheer numbers and did it every Sunday.
Or they got a list of gun owners and choose to send those 10,000 people in front of your house. They can now protest in front of your house on the sidewalk ( if you have one) but can’t block street traffic but they will just with those number they can’t fit on the sidewalk and just the cars to get there will block traffic for miles.
Now you say, the police won’t do anything. That’s not true if the politicians don’t stop them. Go look at Occupy Wall Street. The police moved them.

The country ran far better before all of this bullshit.

It will run far better without it in the future too.

Your doomsday predictions sound just like all the people who warned that CCWs would lead to blood in the streets. They don't.

All that bullshit is unnecessary, and it is far more dangerous than the problem that will happen without it.

People do not need government to control every aspect of their life. We tend to do better without them.

400,000 people showing up unregulated leads to woodstock, add enough government trying to control them all, and you get riots instead.

Arrest the criminals and troubemakers, leave the rest alone. Do not attempt to control the crowd, just the criminals and things will be 100% better.


We used to do things that way, government didn't use to think it had to be in control of everything. People were allowed to do stupid stuff and fail. The world was a far better place for it.

 

[Truebeliever]

The country ran far better before all of this bullshit.

It will run far better without it in the future too.

Your doomsday predictions sound just like all the people who warned that CCWs would lead to blood in the streets. They don't.

All that bullshit is unnecessary, and it is far more dangerous than the problem that will happen without it.

People do not need government to control every aspect of their life. We tend to do better without them.

400,000 people showing up unregulated leads to woodstock, add enough government trying to control them all, and you get riots instead.

Arrest the criminals and troubemakers, leave the rest alone. Do not attempt to control the crowd, just the criminals and things will be 100% better.


We used to do things that way, government didn't use to think it had to be in control of everything. People were allowed to do stupid stuff and fail. The world was a far better place for it.

I’m glad you used Woodstock as an example. Did you sit in all that traffic . For some people it lasted for days. No one talks about that. People could go to church, the doctor , etc as an example. And Woodstock was outdoors and on private land. No permit required. Now put Woodstock on Main Street. Do you think it would effect others to the point they couldn’t do business, get to work, the hospital etc.

The parade permit system has been around for more than 100 years. In fact, it allowed for more protest than the prior system where the local police could just arrest marches and protests they didn’t like.
Go look up these rights you speak about and how they were enforced. The bill of rights ONLY applied to the federal government until “ incorporation “by case law using the 14th admendment . Local and state police DID NOT need a warrant to search your house , unless state law/constitution, required it until 1960. Terry v Ohio did not grant police more power to stop, question and frisk people in the street . The case was to limit that power and define how and when the police could do that . Go look up the exclusionary rule— when they tossed out evidence because the police violated someone’s rights — it came in 1914. What do think the police were doing before those rulings. Things were not “ greater” in the good ole days as you think.
Go read what happened to the protesters who protested the entry into World War One or the draft . Before and after war was declared.

 

[spat]

I’m glad you used Woodstock as an example. Did you sit in all that traffic . For some people it lasted for days. No one talks about that. People could go to church, the doctor , etc as an example. And Woodstock was outdoors and on private land. No permit required. Now put Woodstock on Main Street. Do you think it would effect others to the point they couldn’t do business, get to work, the hospital etc.

The parade permit system has been around for more than 100 years. In fact, it allowed for more protest than the prior system where the local police could just arrest marches and protests they didn’t like.
Go look up these rights you speak about and how they were enforced. The bill of rights ONLY applied to the federal government until “ incorporation “by case law using the 14th admendment . Local and state police DID NOT need a warrant to search your house , unless state law/constitution, required it until 1960. Terry v Ohio did not grant police more power to stop, question and frisk people in the street . The case was to limit that power and define how and when the police could do that . Go look up the exclusionary rule— when they tossed out evidence because the police violated someone’s rights — it came in 1914. What do think the police were doing before those rulings. Things were not “ greater” in the good ole days as you think.
Go read what happened to the protesters who protested the entry into World War One or the draft . Before and after war was declared.

Certainly there were a lot of things that were worse back then.

And I am well aware of the abuses.

But, that doesn't mean all the additional rules we have are an improvement. We should absolutely keep the new restrictions on government power while simultaneously eliminating the new sources of it. That would be real progress.

Yep, woodstock Certainly inconvenienced some people. But, why should a few people who don't like the traffic get to veto a music festival that 400,000 others want to participate in ?

The roads belong to the 400,000 people as much as the 20 who live there (because, public road). The fact that demand for use of that road went up drastically for a few days is just part of life.

If it was up to me we would reboot the entire legal system, and a complete law library would end up about the size of an issue of Guns and Ammo.

We really only need a handful of laws to cover everything that should be prohibitable, and a few pages for sentencing (not guidlines, but very specific prescribed sentences. Once the facts are agreed on, the sentence should not be in question for any crime).

 

[Truebeliever]

Certainly there were a lot of things that were worse back then.

And I am well aware of the abuses.

But, that doesn't mean all the additional rules we have are an improvement. We should absolutely keep the new restrictions on government power while simultaneously eliminating the new sources of it. That would be real progress.

Yep, woodstock Certainly inconvenienced some people. But, why should a few people who don't like the traffic get to veto a music festival that 400,000 others want to participate in ?

The roads belong to the 400,000 people as much as the 20 who live there (because, public road). The fact that demand for use of that road went up drastically for a few days is just part of life.

If it was up to me we would reboot the entire legal system, and a complete law library would end up about the size of an issue of Guns and Ammo.

We really only need a handful of laws to cover everything that should be prohibitable, and a few pages for sentencing (not guidlines, but very specific prescribed sentences. Once the facts are agreed on, the sentence should not be in question for any crime).

It wasn’t vetoed. It was on private land and outside hence no permit needed. And it was advertised and known.

Now imagine if Woodstock was in NYC Central Park without any planning by local government.Everyone who planned to use the park couldn’t . The hospitals would be blocked ( at least 5 of them) Business would be shut down without consent or warning. Now with proper planning, the city handles those numbers every weekend in the summer. And protests that the police disagree with are held including BLM, legalize drugs, even “ hydro” day( weed smoking ) before it was legal. They do it with proper planning . Heck that how the super bowl traffic is handled- with proper planning . The permit just gives proper notice and tells the protesters the plan such as the highway here is to your protest- these highways will remain open to everyone else etc

 

[Truebeliever]

Certainly there were a lot of things that were worse back then.

And I am well aware of the abuses.

But, that doesn't mean all the additional rules we have are an improvement. We should absolutely keep the new restrictions on government power while simultaneously eliminating the new sources of it. That would be real progress.

Yep, woodstock Certainly inconvenienced some people. But, why should a few people who don't like the traffic get to veto a music festival that 400,000 others want to participate in ?

The roads belong to the 400,000 people as much as the 20 who live there (because, public road). The fact that demand for use of that road went up drastically for a few days is just part of life.

If it was up to me we would reboot the entire legal system, and a complete law library would end up about the size of an issue of Guns and Ammo.

We really only need a handful of laws to cover everything that should be prohibitable, and a few pages for sentencing (not guidlines, but very specific prescribed sentences. Once the facts are agreed on, the sentence should not be in question for any crime).

It doesn’t work because your definition of something isn’t theirs.
For example , land rights. I buy the land next to you. Can I dump toxic waste there?

 

[spat]

It doesn’t work because your definition of something isn’t theirs.
For example , land rights. I buy the land next to you. Can I dump toxic waste there?

If you own the land and can keep the crap off mine, then yes. That's what "ownership" means.

 

[spat]

It wasn’t vetoed. It was on private land and outside hence no permit needed. And it was advertised and known.

Now imagine if Woodstock was in NYC Central Park without any planning by local government.Everyone who planned to use the park couldn’t . The hospitals would be blocked ( at least 5 of them) Business would be shut down without consent or warning. Now with proper planning, the city handles those numbers every weekend in the summer. And protests that the police disagree with are held including BLM, legalize drugs, even “ hydro” day( weed smoking ) before it was legal. They do it with proper planning . Heck that how the super bowl traffic is handled- with proper planning . The permit just gives proper notice and tells the protesters the plan such as the highway here is to your protest- these highways will remain open to everyone else etc

Sorry, you're dire prediction that "somebody might not be able to use the park because some other people are using it instead" just doesn't strike me as sufficient justification to bypass the whole "freedom to assemble" thing.

If it's big enough to be a problem, then you don't need the permit to find out about it. And if someone does sneak 400,000 of their friends in without notice, then I guess some people will will have to deal with traffic.

 

[Truebeliever]

Sorry, you're dire prediction that "somebody might not be able to use the park because some other people are using it instead" just doesn't strike me as sufficient justification to bypass the whole "freedom to assemble" thing.

If it's big enough to be a problem, then you don't need the permit to find out about it. And if someone does sneak 400,000 of their friends in without notice, then I guess some people will will have to deal with traffic.

That’s because you and I don’t live in such a place. But imagine you pay taxes for a park. You raise money for a park and then can never use it for its intended purposes. Central Park is like that. If they didn’t do a permit system, it would be a protest every day. And they do. The permit system will rotate where they can be if just for park maintenance on top of allowing different groups in at the same time.

And the number to shut down a whole area doesn’t need to be 400,000. It can be 10,000 in some areas. It could be hundred. Do you think someone should be able to shut down a highway or interstate ? Block the hospital routes. That has happened. Now what do think people are doing to do if one does that. Drive their cars into it. That frustration leads to violence.
The permit system has been around before women had the vote,

And yes, people were surprised by the number that went to Woodstock

 

[spat]

That’s because you and I don’t live in such a place. But imagine you pay taxes for a park. You raise money for a park and then can never use it for its intended purposes. Central Park is like that. If they didn’t do a permit system, it would be a protest every day. And they do. The permit system will rotate where they can be if just for park maintenance on top of allowing different groups in at the same time.

And the number to shut down a whole area doesn’t need to be 400,000. It can be 10,000 in some areas. It could be hundred. Do you think someone should be able to shut down a highway or interstate ? Block the hospital routes. That has happened. Now what do think people are doing to do if one does that. Drive their cars into it. That frustration leads to violence.
The permit system has been around before women had the vote,

And yes, people were surprised by the number that went to Woodstock

You can outlaw pedestrians on interstates without then giving special ones permission slips.

If there are so many people that want to protest things in Central Park, why should the frisbee players get to push them out ?

Either it's public use, or it isn't. Government shouldn't be able to pick and choose which groups are more worthy.

And if people don't think they're getting their tax dollars worth, then the government should stop spending the tax dollars. Problem solved.

 

[Truebeliever]

You can outlaw pedestrians on interstates without then giving special ones permission slips.

If there are so many people that want to protest things in Central Park, why should the frisbee players get to push them out ?

Either it's public use, or it isn't. Government shouldn't be able to pick and choose which groups are more worthy.

And if people don't think they're getting their tax dollars worth, then the government should stop spending the tax dollars. Problem solved.

Again, it’s more than frisbee players. It’s kids and families too. Just people who want to use a park . It’s not just a day that would happen without the permit system. It would be every weekend if not everyday. Want to go jogging in the park , you can’t because some one is protesting and blocking the route. Want to have a picnic with the kids? Nope, someone is protesting .
Ever see the Seinfeld episode with the Puerto Rican day parade? It’s funny because it’s based in truth and that’s with the permit, announced and planned.


Go watch how they compare crossing the street to the Berlin Wall. Or trying to use a bathroom. That is all true.
And that disruption as bad as it is, is not as bad as if it wasn’t planned.
Now imagine that happening to you often when all you want to do is get home.

 

[spat]

Again, it’s more than frisbee players. It’s kids and families too. Just people who want to use a park . It’s not just a day that would happen without the permit system. It would be every weekend if not everyday. Want to go jogging in the park , you can’t because some one is protesting and blocking the route. Want to have a picnic with the kids? Nope, someone is protesting .
Ever see the Seinfeld episode with the Puerto Rican day parade? It’s funny because it’s based in truth and that’s with the permit, announced and planned.


Go watch how they compare crossing the street to the Berlin Wall. Or trying to use a bathroom. That is all true.
And that disruption as bad as it is, is not as bad as if it wasn’t planned.
Now imagine that happening to you often when all you want to do is get home.

It wouldn't happen to me because I would never live there.

I choose to live in communities with decent people. As for NYC, I'd build a wall around the place let them figure it out for themselves.


Lots of heavy handed government is not a remedy to shitty culture. Best to just let it rot.

 

[Truebeliever]

It wouldn't happen to me because I would never live there.

I choose to live in communities with decent people. As for NYC, I'd build a wall around the place let them figure it out for themselves.


Lots of heavy handed government is not a remedy to shitty culture. Best to just let it rot.

But that example can happen here or where you live too. That’s why conditions of the permit is and has to based on the local conditions where it’s being held .
500 people might overwhelm the roads and inter structure in some towns.

 

[Acer-m14]

500 people might overwhelm the roads and inter structure in some towns.

might .. maybe .. could cause .. may harm .. .. all maybe's ..

watch this video .. and look at all the what if's were used by the GOVT ( LEO ) ..

 

[Truebeliever]

might .. maybe .. could cause .. may harm .. .. all maybe's ..

watch this video .. and look at all the what if's were used by the GOVT ( LEO ) ..

If I shoot a gun on a plane it “ might” cause the plane to crash too. But your “ might” actually goes toward the permit system argument. It makes it less arbitrary which protests or demonstrations would be forced to leave by the police and gives the organizers a chance to appeal to a court if it is denied or they don’t like what the permit says.

 

[spat]

But that example can happen here or where you live too. That’s why conditions of the permit is and has to based on the local conditions where it’s being held .
500 people might overwhelm the roads and inter structure in some towns.

No, it can't happen here.

That kind of thing only happens where you have large quantities of whiny left wing bitches.

The right wing version looks like the Canadian protests, with bouncy castles and food vendors.

I'm OK with those.

 

[Truebeliever]

No, it can't happen here.

That kind of thing only happens where you have large quantities of whiny left wing bitches.

The right wing version looks like the Canadian protests, with bouncy castles and food vendors.

I'm OK with those.

See, if you agree with the protesters it’s okay but if you don’t , no.

And you absolutely can have it happen in your neighborhood. They rent buses and ship them in . Go look at Kenosha. Antifa came from out of town from places as far as California. Antifa was seen on the same planes as reporters that flew in to demonstrations around the country multiple times. Same reporter, same Antifa protestor . Rev Al Shapton rented buses to ship his protestors to places where an accusation of racism was. It can happen anywhere.

 

[spat]

See, if you agree with the protesters it’s okay but if you don’t , no.

And you absolutely can have it happen in your neighborhood. They rent buses and ship them in . Go look at Kenosha. Antifa came from out of town from places as far as California. Antifa was seen on the same planes as reporters that flew in to demonstrations around the country multiple times. Same reporter, same Antifa protestor . Rev Al Shapton rented buses to ship his protestors to places where an accusation of racism was. It can happen anywhere.

You only get that in places where the DA ignores their shenanigans. No permit system will help there anyway. I'm pretty sure all the places that had those problems *do* have the permit requirements.

So, it seems odd that you are trying to use examples where the permitting system failed as examples why we need it.

It's like the whole vehicle inspection scam. I'm sure you feel those are absolutely necessary too and the roads become death traps without them. Except there are plenty of examples that show that doesn't happen.

Same with zoning laws. There are large cities without them too, and they get along just fine.

Turns out people only need government to control the few miscreants who aren't going to follow those laws anyway. Normal honest citizens don't need their lives micromanaged by a massive bureaucracy. They will manage it fine on their own.

 

[Truebeliever]

You only get that in places where the DA ignores their shenanigans. No permit system will help there anyway. I'm pretty sure all the places that had those problems *do* have the permit requirements.

So, it seems odd that you are trying to use examples where the permitting system failed as examples why we need it.

It's like the whole vehicle inspection scam. I'm sure you feel those are absolutely necessary too and the roads become death traps without them. Except there are plenty of examples that show that doesn't happen.

Same with zoning laws. There are large cities without them too, and they get along just fine.

Turns out people only need government to control the few miscreants who aren't going to follow those laws anyway. Normal honest citizens don't need their lives micromanaged by a massive bureaucracy. They will manage it fine on their own.

Since I don’t know where you live, I can’t say you place has the permit system but I don’t know anyplace in the NY, NJ,CT area that doesn’t . Sometimes the permit is by the police/sheriffs department, others it’s the fire department. But they have one. I bet your area does too

Has far as the Shapton crowd types , they travel everywhere and get the permit

 

[spat]

Since I don’t know where you live, I can’t say you place has the permit system but I don’t know anyplace in the NY, NJ,CT area that doesn’t . Sometimes the permit is by the police/sheriffs department, others it’s the fire department. But they have one. I bet your area does too

I live in AZ now. I used to live just south of Rochester.

Yep, everyone has permit systems. None of them are needed.

Good people don't need them, and bad people don't follow them. There is absolutely nothing necessary about them.

 

[Truebeliever]

I live in AZ now. I used to live just south of Rochester.

Yep, everyone has permit systems. None of them are needed.

Good people don't need them, and bad people don't follow them. There is absolutely nothing necessary about them.

Most people and protests do follow them and often go to court to change them if they disagree including BLM. And most of groups who attempt not to follow the permit get arrested or “ moved” off.
You do not know what you are talking about on this issue.

Here is an example of one of the AZ permit

Special Events and Solicitations | General Services Division - ADOA

gsd.az.gov

Other AZ permits are needed for other areas.

 

[GOPerfect]

They will be using the Police to do this work.

Watch how many Rights of the people are violated by the Police. The Police, just following the orders of their masters. Regardless if right or not.