Should We Blindly Support the Police?

[BerettaGuy]

We as Gun Owners are a "signature" away from becoming criminals.
Cuomo did it with NY SAFE and the pressure is mounting. What will happen to Permit holders that fail to re-certify? Did your dog eat your AR?
Now Brandon and NY Officials want all the cities to be like NY.

A Pistol Permit Holder in New York is by definition a "Law Abiding Citizen". Yet every law they dream up puts us one step closer to a not-so-friendly run-in with the police. By blindly supporting the Police are we not supporting the Politicians?

I was in law enforcement for 13 years. 70 - 84. Many of my friends are cops (albeit mostly retired now) I had a choice to make.
My Marine brother who had just lived through the Tet Offensive begged me not to enlist in the Marines and just wait to be drafted so I listened to him.
My generation was labeled the "drop out or fall in" generation. I fell in and joined the PD. Who knew that the Drop-outs would now be in charge.

I never thank a vet for their service because when I hear non-vets say that, it is like saying thank you for going so I didn't have to.
I never thank a cop for his service because he took the job knowing full well what the risks are. I've been shot at and missed and shit on and hit.
Then I watched the YouTuber I subscribe to, who lives near Portland give his take on what is going on and I'm sorry to all the working cops out there, but he has a valid point.

We have OK Zoomers now becoming cops. They don't have any idea what genitalia means. They have been fed Government approved information their whole life. They have never stepped inside of a church. Their moral compass is void. They dress like soldiers hitting the streets of Fallujah Iraq. ( the thinking here is instead of dressing like a soldier in a bad neighborhood, you have to dress like that in all neighborhoods as to not offend the bad neighborhood)

When I heard the rant my first reaction was, okay here is a guy that had a run-in with a bad cop. But as he went on I realized that the cops follow directions from the "elected" officials and God Knows that the rule of law doesn't mean squat to them. Therein lies the problem.

He's right! While ANTIFA and BLM were burning Portland. The Cops were protecting ANTIFA and BLM! Not the taxpayers whose property was being destroyed. It was the same in the other cities during the summer of love. When we allow junkies to just shoplift we are protecting the junkies. The cops are following orders from the whackos. That alone is a scary statement.

A harbinger of things to come for the "legal gun owners" in New York. Politically we are on the wrong side of the "elected officials". The elected class that are Licensed to do violence with guns and can't stand the Second Amendment which was created solely because "they" have a license to do violence with guns.
We are living in "Hunger Games" - Starwars - V for Vendetta and many others and we ain't the people pressing and prancing around in gay apparel.
PS what he says about Sheriffs' Departments is spot on.

 

[Jem45472]

Don't know exactly how I'd like to respond, but excellent post. Definitely something to think about.

 

[Tinman]

I don’t blindly support anything or anybody. I do my research and make up my own mind. I really don’t care what everyone else thinks, I have to be true to my own beliefs.

 

[kev74]

I support the police just as much as I support any other civil servant. There are mostly good and a few bad, just like any other profession. My mail man is awesome. When I see him, I thank him for doing a good job. The snowplow drivers in my town - not so good, so I don't thank them for plowing in my driveway or knocking over my mailbox.

It bugs me a lot to see cops get special privileges that us little folks don't get. It bugs me hearing cops brag about getting out of tickets or other legal issues that would jam up the unprotected class. I've yet to hear a good reason why a cop should get to own a stick mag for his 10/22 rifle but I'm committing a felony for the same.

 

[Celt]

I used to blindly support law enforcement because I almost took the path to be part of that community. As I got older and wiser I realized it's just like any other profession where you have good people and bad people and not everybody becomes a police officer for good moral reasons.

It seems more and more frequently people are becoming police simply for the authority it gives them, or because of the guaranteed paycheck. They will blindly follow orders because they can't afford to lose their job and they need to feed their families even if it means stepping on the freedom of others and carrying out unconstitutional orders.

The politicians, the media, and a large part of society have diminished personal values and prioritized the state over everything. The more and more that people are fed a revised version of History with political correctness on overload the more bootlickers we will be contending with and the less freedom-loving constitutionally minded police there will be.

I didn't watch the video yet but I will give it a look. But in summary I do not blindly support the blue, people need to earn that support just like any other profession would.

 

[MothMan]

"I never thank a vet for their service because when I hear non-vets say that, it is like saying thank you for going so I didn't have to."

This veteran appreciates your candor. No one said thanks to me in "73". Eff them now!


As for trusting LEO, NO. I only trust Butterfly and then I double check her.

 

[togmaster]

I "liked" the OP for a number of reasons but mainly for the discussion it will bring.

 

[BerettaGuy]

"I never thank a vet for their service because when I hear non-vets say that, it is like saying thank you for going so I didn't have to."

This veteran appreciates your candor. No one said thanks to me in "73". Eff them now!


As for trusting LEO, NO. I only trust Butterfly and then I double check her.

Exactly. The dropouts were spitting on the vets in 73, now they are running the show and have made Thank you for your service a politically correct thing to do, cause they know spitting is no longer accpeted.

 

[FP1201]

The man in the video has a point, however given the current climate, camera's everywhere, Ken's & Karen's, Homies not afraid to pull a gun and use it, sometimes you have to be a "Professional" asshole....note that word "Professional" the definition of which can be put at "Someone that does their best work even when they don't feel like it."

 

[GOPerfect]

I could talk for a while on this. I do not blindly support any group of people. Their are no groups of people, as a whole, worthy of blind respect and support.

First the Vets: I am one. Most of my friends are Vets. I support them and me. Not all who are Veterans are good people. Not all that have deployed served with honor. I bend my support quite a lot to vets, but not blindly. They entered into a job, just like any one else that entered into a profession. I am a Thank you kind of guy just because of ones service.

As for the Police? I support them as a whole for the awesome that they do each and everyday across the nation. On an individual basis, not as much. Many of my friends are on the job, as am I. It is a job, with a great paycheck and awesome benefits. If I could find all of this elsewhere, I would leave today.

From the OP and the video, this following blindly makes me sick. More that are on the job need to read and understand the laws. Just because an elected official or a boss tells an officer to do something, does not mean that needs to be followed. I am not asking a patrol officer to decide on Constitutional issues, that is for the courts to decide, but here in NY, we have the Penal Law and the Criminal Procedure law and too often, many officers have little understanding of either.

Cops have a very tough job. Not the toughest, but tough nonetheless. They could make it easier if they did not follow blindly.

I do not thank a fireman for being a fireman, I would thank them if my home was on fire and they saved my home. I would thank an officer if he assisted me with something, not if he gives me a ticket. I support all that go to work each and everyday to make life better, I do not thank them and I do not blindly support all.

I am watching the trucker thing in Canada and I have listened to some of the comments by the Police and their comments make me sick to my stomach.

 

[GOPerfect]

This is what I am talking about. How in the hell can I support a group that says this?


This is a fuck off to this department.

 

[RedBreast21]

Blindly support? Only a fool would do that. As someone already stated we are one signature away from being criminals. 99% of police will keep a paycheck. History has proven this time and time again.

 

[Saltwater60]

I used to support the cops more than I do now. I know plenty, plenty are friends and a few are family members. I hear stories and I’ve had a few experiences now where I just don’t trust them as much as I used to.
Now with all the hoopla going on about ghost guns I trust them less. Biden and the dems are doing this as a distraction.

Here’s my take. I had first-hand knowledge of a legal situation with a family member and the cops fucked it up so bad I have little doubt they would do this for anyone else. I know plenty of the cops in the department that was investigating it and the report had no follow-up, lacking much information, much was wrong, and I was interviewed. The police report was requested and the dispatcher wanted to know what it was about. I refused to tell her and she was butthurt by that, she’s not supposed to ask what it’s about. I have no obligation to tell her. So the request went unanswered for 1 week, two weeks, 3 weeks, so I called the records officer and left a message, another couple weeks went by and nothing. A family member is an officer in that department so he asked what’s going on with this his lawyer said to get this report. The records cop responded oh I never anwser the phone, check my voicemail, or return calls. Seriously WTF? So after reading the report and knowing what happened since I was there and interviewed and 95% of the report being wrong, then saying there was a witness to the crime, and not putting the counselors comments in the report indicating she didn’t think it happened I have little respect for most cops now. This wasn’t one cop it was 3-4 that fucked this up and I won’t forget it. There has been no contact since and as far as I know it’s dead. Good thing since I would make the cops look like morons so easily that no one would believe what they said.

On top of this in my area the cops confiscate your guns whenever there is any domestic incident. That’s right an incident. I could call my wife a bitch and if the girl next door is a feminist and doesn’t like that so she calls the cops they will take my guns for that. Yes I have verified this with a detective and a lieutenant. I even asked them how the fuck they can do this if no crime is committed and they had the nerve to stick up for it saying it would save lives and some Niagara County judge said they could do it so they do. I argued with them at length saying it was unconstitutional.

 

[pshift]

You should never 'blindly' support anything or anyone for that matter. At the end of the day, you have to go home and take care of whats important to you and those whom you love and protect.

Keep BOTH eyes open and maintain awareness. Always look for 'who stands to gain if I comply with what I'm being told". The authorities never have YOUR best interests in mind, only what is good for the state. Now, about those CCW permit restrictions ...

 

[BerettaGuy]

When your elected officials have no sense for the rule of law.hERE
BRANDON SAYS NO AMENDMENT IS ABSOUTE!
Here Tim Poole makes some interesting points to discuss.

 

[BerettaGuy]

This is what I am talking about. How in the hell can I support a group that says this?


This is a fuck off to this department.

ON one side Chiefs of Police are political appointments and were usually mediocre cops.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Nope. Don't blindly support anything. There are good and bad in every profession. I support those that truly uphold and protect the constitution. I support those that speak out against tyranny and the raping of the constitution. I support those that put their oath before their job. There rest, I don't support or care about.

 

[spat]

Mostly they deserve our support, now.

But the time is rapidly approaching when they will be the enemy.

This country was founded when duly appointed uniformed government agents tried to enforce gun control laws and we killed them for it.

Something like that may happen again soon.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

This is what I am talking about. How in the hell can I support a group that says this?


This is a fuck off to this department.

....and what exactly will they be prosecuted for?

 

[kev74]

....and what exactly will they be prosecuted for?

Terrorism, of course.

Did you see what they did to that guy who couldn't sleep for 5 days? Or the girl who cried because people who she disagrees with were in her streets?? Its pure evil to not give lefties everything they want.

 

[gingerbread_mag]

Why would I blindly support anyone or anything?

And especially when it comes to active law enforcement across the world. I don't trust them any more than I do any armed person with the authority and statutory license to murder me and concoct a story to justify themselves.

The recent murder during the serving of a no-knock warrant in Minnesota (may be mixing up my States; correct me if I'm wrong) only serves as a reminder of why we should never trust police, even those on this forum.

The no-knock raid I mentioned was conducted at 0400 local time with SWAT bashing in the door and shooting a legally armed person within 10 seconds. This young man was asleep, wrapped in blankets, awoke to an armed mob breaking into where he was sleeping, and was shot because he slept with a pistol.

How many of us sleep with guns nearby? How many of us could this have been? The kicker: he wasn't named in the warrant, so he wasn't who the police were looking for. Just the wrong place at the wrong time, and made the fatal decision to arm himself in case someone came to murder him.

There is a significant alienation of U.S. police forces from the general population. Take a peek at Reddit forums like protectandserve. The response in those pro-police forums on Reddit? They bemoan the "bad press." That's what it is to them; bad PR. No fucks given for the life lost, because their blue line mentality puts us on one side and them on the other of that very line. It was a "mistake" but not one that should change their policies. Just bad for optics.

That should tell you everything you need to know about law enforcement.

 

[gingerbread_mag]

This is what I am talking about. How in the hell can I support a group that says this?


This is a fuck off to this department.

Police should be apolitical in their conduct.

If people want to jeopardize their comfort to bitch about political policy, that's their natural born right. As an officer, of course you ought to render aid to anyone who is in need, even if that's not your mandate or obligation. It's just being a good human, and within your ability and authority as a police officer.

But offering provisions and support to a side in a political side show? No. If they call 911 (or the Canadian equivalent, which I should know for how often I travel there) then you can give them a warm blanket and an attaboy for supporting your favorite political bullshit. Otherwise, maintain a lookout for lawlessness, as you're supposed to.

Note that I use the pronoun "you" frequently, but do not mean to single out you, @GOPerfect, even though you are also LE.

 

[BerettaGuy]

Police should be apolitical in their conduct.

Yeah, Like they were in the riots of BLM and ANTIFA! Remember this, they follow the orders of woke leftwing political class liberals or they lose their pensions.

 

[gingerbread_mag]

Yeah, Like they were in the riots of BLM and ANTIFA! Remember this, they follow the orders of woke leftwing political class liberals or they lose their pensions.

What are you talking about? They arrested and beat BLM and ANTIFA throughout all the protests last year.

The only groups cops seems to give any support to are right-wing political organizations. They shoot BLM and ANTIFA with pepper balls, rubber bullets, and old fashioned batons.

 

[Mosinitis]

I only support myself these days and Rodina.

 

[spat]

What are you talking about? They arrested and beat BLM and ANTIFA throughout all the protests last year.

The only groups cops seems to give any support to are right-wing political organizations. They shoot BLM and ANTIFA with pepper balls, rubber bullets, and old fashioned batons.

They shoot right wing protestors with real bullets.

If they *do* arrest left wing protestors, for things like arson, they're out in hours.

Then will mass arrest right wing protesters for tresspassing, then keep then in prison for months.

 

[gingerbread_mag]

They shoot right wing protestors with real bullets.

If they *do* arrest left wing protestors, for things like arson, they're out in hours.

Then will mass arrest right wing protesters for tresspassing, then keep then in prison for months.

Your sole example of right wing protesters being shot with real bullets is Ashli Babbitt. She happened to be participating in a terrorist attack on our nation's capitol. Whatever my feelings are toward police as an organization, I don't begrudge an individual acting as an LEO shooting a literal insurrectionist while they're attempting to breach the Capitol. That person stands between elected representatives and the mob, and has every right to defend themselves and the people they swore to protect.

And, to-date, there are no "mass arrests" of right wing protesters for trespassing. The only recent examples I can find are anti-maskers refusing to leave a store and throwing a temper tantrum until police arrive. At which point they do their job and trespass the infantile individual.

Left wing protesters have been assaulted continuously throughout the past several years' of protests. if you haven't seen that or heard of it, you are likely consuming only right wing media.

 

[spat]

Your sole example of right wing protesters being shot with real bullets is Ashli Babbitt. She happened to be participating in a terrorist attack on our nation's capitol. Whatever my feelings are toward police as an organization, I don't begrudge an individual acting as an LEO shooting a literal insurrectionist while they're attempting to breach the Capitol. That person stands between elected representatives and the mob, and has every right to defend themselves and the people they swore to protect.

And, to-date, there are no "mass arrests" of right wing protesters for trespassing. The only recent examples I can find are anti-maskers refusing to leave a store and throwing a temper tantrum until police arrive. At which point they do their job and trespass the infantile individual.

Left wing protesters have been assaulted continuously throughout the past several years' of protests. if you haven't seen that or heard of it, you are likely consuming only right wing media.

The only recent right wing protest that looked anything like the ANTIFA or BLM "summer of love" was the Jan 6th protest.

More arrests from that than any of the others, including left wing protests that occupied city blocks for weeks. That is the definition of an insurrection, not re-arranging the furniture in Pelosi's office.

Most of the people arrested for their activities that day *were* held for ridiculously long times and ultimately charged with minor misdemeanors like tresspassing, because they couldn't find any evidence of any more serious crime.

The left wing protestors burned down whole city blocks by comparison and got slaps on the wrist for it (if they got anything).

 

[gingerbread_mag]

The only recent right wing protest that looked anything like the ANTIFA or BLM "summer of love" was the Jan 6th protest.

More arrests from that than any of the others, including left wing protests that occupied city blocks for weeks. That is the definition of an insurrection, not re-arranging the furniture in Pelosi's office.

Most of the people arrested for their activities that day *were* held for ridiculously long times and ultimately charged with minor misdemeanors like tresspassing, because they couldn't find any evidence of any more serious crime.

The left wing protestors burned down whole city blocks by comparison and got slaps on the wrist for it (if they got anything).

Riots and looting, while illegal and antisocial, are not tantamount to an attack on our literal government. I don't defend rioting and looting. But there's a hierarchy to criminal activity. And destruction of insured property, in terms of severity, is leagues below storming a government building with the intention of installing an illegitimate ruler because conspiracy nuts said the election was stolen.

Murdering government officials while in pursuit of other government officials is a terrorist attack. The sad fact that those idiots couldn't organize efficiently enough to break down a barricade and kill more government officials than they already had is a testament to their incompetence; not a defense of their so-called protest.

 

[spat]

Riots and looting, while illegal and antisocial, are not tantamount to an attack on our literal government. I don't defend rioting and looting. But there's a hierarchy to criminal activity. And destruction of insured property, in terms of severity, is leagues below storming a government building with the intention of installing an illegitimate ruler because conspiracy nuts said the election was stolen.

Murdering government officials while in pursuit of other government officials is a terrorist attack. The sad fact that those idiots couldn't organize efficiently enough to break down a barricade and kill more government officials than they already had is a testament to their incompetence; not a defense of their so-called protest.

Trying to burn down a federal courthouse is certainly an "attack on government".

Declaring an "autonomous zone" that forbids government agents from entering or enforcing laws is certainly an attack on government.

LaVoy Finicum was assassinated for doing that *after* he had left the wildlife refuge (that was closed for the season when they occupied it anyway).

Compare the treatment of those protestors to the ones from the summer who occupied downtown city blocks, not some remote bird watching outpost nobody was using anyway.

If you can't see how much more harsh the treatment of right wing protests is, I'm not sure what to say.


Oh, and PS, if you're part of a crowd that starts trying to burn down buildings, maybe a few pepperballs should be expected.