Spanish shotguns

[cgrutt]

Didn't want to sidetrack the Flintlock thread so posting here...

Buy Pedersoli

.

Pedersoli is made in Italy, and every firearm they make is as fine as any, ever made.

Do NOT buy Traditions.

Traditions is trash. Made in Spain, and should not be trusted.

Unless you have an Eye or Finger to spare.

Don't be a fool. Part with an extra one or two hundred for quality.

Don't know much about flintlocks and only a bit more about shotguns but have been under impression some of the finest shotguns in the world have come from Spain. Handful of small companies with limited production whose products command as much as a good pickup truck, lol. Maybe @meketrefe can chime in with more info.

Interesting article here for those who are interested.

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Spanish Shotguns: Fine Gunmaking in the Eibar Region

When it comes to "best" quality guns, names such as Purdey and Holland & Holland come to mind, but most are not aware that Spain's Eibar region has a long history of fine gunmaking. Today, Spanish makers produce some of the finest "best" quality shotguns in the world.

www.americanrifleman.org

 

[Robin]

They did have a history of producing fine barrels
Robin

 

[meketrefe]

Didn't want to sidetrack the Flintlock thread so posting here...

Don't know much about flintlocks and only a bit more about shotguns but have been under impression some of the finest shotguns in the world have come from Spain. Handful of small companies with limited production whose products command as much as a good pickup truck, lol. Maybe @meketrefe can chime in with more info.

Interesting article here for those who are interested.

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Spanish Shotguns: Fine Gunmaking in the Eibar Region

When it comes to "best" quality guns, names such as Purdey and Holland & Holland come to mind, but most are not aware that Spain's Eibar region has a long history of fine gunmaking. Today, Spanish makers produce some of the finest "best" quality shotguns in the world.

www.americanrifleman.org

Spain is not different than any other places of the world. you pay bottom barrel, don't expect a high end firearm or equipment.

They have super low budget stuff (that nobody there buys), average budget stuff for the working man (what most people buy) and
then some of the amazing shotguns you see in that article above (more expensive and high quality + hand crafting cosmetic work for
those who care to pay for that artesan type of detail).

Some of the average budget are so good that are well regarded and to last several lifetimes passed from father to son like Urnieta, lanber,
and Arrezabaleta, etc... shotguns that have been making shotguns for generations some amazing ones. These are comparable to some
of the browning that are probably some of the best value one can buy even if they are not as pretty as the italian or turkish ones
they are stronger actions. Sadly someof those generations old family companies have been either gone belly up or absorved by
larger groups like FN, Beretta/ Benelli, etc... So only the high end remain as family businesses.

Traditions is a budget and nobody buys then in Spain. They are mostly for exports to south america, Asia and other budget places.
I think muzzle loaders are decent but shotguns cannto be made great for super low cost. Same to what happens with a highpoint
or a keltec budget. They are made for a price point and not to be life long super dependable firearms. Stoeger from brazil are
in the same boat.

Stoeger barrels are actually quite decent so if one takes a shotgun to a gunsmith and retrofits the POS trigger groups then they
can become great shotguns for youth to learn skeet / trap or whatever else.

Same way a traditions can be "fixed" to overcome some of the shortcomings of budget firearms to be more reliable and serve
the person who is on a budget.

 

[CaseHardened]

Sorry.

I'm not going to put any Spanish BOMB right by my face.

I respect the opinions of others here, some of whom certainly know more than I do.

But no, just no.

 

[oc shooter]

most Spanish shot guns I've seen in my 75 years on this planet are just ok I had a chance to hold Ernest Hemingway's spanish double and it was not impressive they make serviceable stuff but not in the same class as Purdey or Holland and holland or zefferelli or beretta they may be equal to some of the turkish guns. like the turkish stuff who really needs them

 

[Robin]

In all the years I have been around muzzleloading I have never heard of a traditions barrel bursting. I have even used their barrel in making one and it is very accurate.
Spain had a very good reputation for quality steel and barrel making, importing many to notable gun building countries like England. What they are today I cannot say, other than my experience with said barrel.
Robin

 

[CaseHardened]

In all the years I have been around muzzleloading I have never heard of a traditions barrel bursting. I have even used their barrel in making one and it is very accurate.
Spain had a very good reputation for quality steel and barrel making, importing many to notable gun building countries like England. What they are today I cannot say, other than my experience with said barrel.
Robin

Ok, I respect your experience and knowledge. You know far more about these things that I do.

But this article, and others I discovered, are more than enough to steer me away from Traditions.

Dangerous Muzzleloaders

 

[Robin]

I started to read the article and hit the word's lawyer and triple 7, that was enough for me. Many people use these weapons improperly and expect a payday.
Robin

 

[CaseHardened]

I started to read the article and hit the word's lawyer and triple 7, that was enough for me. Many people use these weapons improperly and expect a payday.
Robin

fair enough

 

[meketrefe]

In all the years I have been around muzzleloading I have never heard of a traditions barrel bursting. I have even used their barrel in making one and it is very accurate.
Spain had a very good reputation for quality steel and barrel making, importing many to notable gun building countries like England. What they are today I cannot say, other than my experience with said barrel.
Robin

Post ww1, civil war and wwii is not good. Good alloy was scarce everywhere.
There were many makers some budget and some average and some amazing. Most family owned are gone like in Italy.
I have a sarrasketa that is not great looking and not bad looking neither but it has well over 500k rounds w/o a single failure and still originnal trunions and barrels. I have a lanber slorting clays luxe I got in texas imports that i just had ported and chwnged the hammer reset from inertia to mechanical all for under 300 bucks.
The urrieta cost 30 years ago 600 dollars and today I could sell it for 2000k dollars like a good beretta or brownimg used.
Last year a friend showed me a pair of custom Grullas he oredered. In dollars he paid 120k for the set. There is no question they are good but what they really are are pieces of art handcrafted.
People do that as paaaion ans investment but you can still shoot them lf you want.

Anything modern is safe. A budget gun might have crappy triggers and plastic stocs but it cannot be unsafe.
Im spain every firearm sold is tested an certified by an independent national test bank. It is not a super dooper test to QC everything but if the gun doesnt fire or passes the safety tests it goes back to the factory and cannot be sold anywhere.
That process again is not great but at least it is not a lie like the mil spec, hp tested you see everywhere.
Because you know only a hand full of makers do good quality tests and only 3 do hp testing right? The rest jus lie.

 

[meketrefe]

Bergara is one of those spanish brands that people like that produce rifles for 800 and 1k dollars in line with rifles that cost x3 times that in the usa.
Their cnc machines and barrel maker is so modern and advanced that they paetnered shillen and timey triggers to provide the best quality in mass produced barrels axtions and rifles.
When you compare it to an equaly priced remington sps it makes remingon look like a 3rd world rifle in terms of quality of materials, features and finish.
Also they opened a manufacturing plant in Georgia to serve thr US market and they hired some of the best rifle gunsmiths in the industry.
This could have been anyone with a good plan and funding but bergara also had the experience and reputation to expand.