Straight wall rifle use in shotgun only areas

[NYfirefighter357]

Is anyone hearing anything about making straight walled rifle cartridges legal in NY for shotgun only areas? We are thinking of getting a 350 Legend bolt rifle for my buddies son. The 20ga sabot slugs are a little rough on him. He was shooting my 35 Remington loads, 160gr MP 360-640 Cramer style mold w/Penta HP pistol bullets over 10gr Unique and like it. Either way it looks like they are getting one but we were just wondering if straight wall rifle would ever become a legal deer hunting rifle here.

 

[thegatman]

Not in Monroe County. You’re lucky to hunt here.

 

[tc556guy]

Nothing in Tompkins
We just got rifle hunting approved here and there were no provisions regarding limitations on cartridge type.

 

[1075tech]

Haven't heard anything about that and nothing in the regular newsletters from DEC.

Here in Orange County, where in most of the county you can't get anywhere and NOT see a house, you can use a rifle. Dutchess County, where in over half the county you can go miles without seeing a house, is shotgun only.

But you can use a pistol in most areas. Wonder if DEC would give me any hassle about my 6.5 Grendel pistol?

 

[Edwardteach72]

Buddy's son old enough for a pistol permit??

Could always get something like a Black Collar Arms "Pork Sword Pistol"

 

[Edwardteach72]

Haven't heard anything about that and nothing in the regular newsletters from DEC.

Here in Orange County, where in most of the county you can't get anywhere and NOT see a house, you can use a rifle. Dutchess County, where in over half the county you can go miles without seeing a house, is shotgun only.

But you can use a pistol in most areas. Wonder if DEC would give me any hassle about my 6.5 Grendel pistol?

I dont have to worry about shotgun/pistol only but I built a .450bm pistol for deer hunting as a FU to the whole concept

 

[NYfirefighter357]

I'm in Putnam & my hunting property is 1,200 acres of farm & woods in Dutchess., can't use a rifle in either place but everyone is using rifled shotguns.

 

[meketrefe]

No word.
IMO a good option would be to simply get him a single shot .410 and swap barrels but in any case
they also have the option to make a bolt action rifle that can switch barrels between a .410 for hunting and 44 mag or 30-30.
With a savage you can have also different bolt heads for other calibers like 10mm pistol or 357 for practice using a pistol mag insert.
A gunsmith can make a modular carbine system from a number of actions like an axis or a classic like a mauser 98 or even a mosin
and also make it so it can grown with the kids with an adjustable stock and comb.

One could also start with an strong 410 barrel from single shot and cut it to fit the rifle action and then make custom rifled chockes
for the different bullets.
You also have a beautiful Henry lever action in 410 ready to go and rifled chokes could be fitted.

The youth or petite people love the 410 since it is cheap to reload and can be laoded very mild and inexpensively for practice and then hot for hunting.
The 410 can be saboted with 10mm bullets for cheap practice and even use 44mag bullets depending on the bore or rifling.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Haven't heard anything about that and nothing in the regular newsletters from DEC.

Here in Orange County, where in most of the county you can't get anywhere and NOT see a house, you can use a rifle. Dutchess County, where in over half the county you can go miles without seeing a house, is shotgun only.

But you can use a pistol in most areas. Wonder if DEC would give me any hassle about my 6.5 Grendel pistol?

You know I never even thought about going the pistol route here in Putnam?

I mean, I have- but not for hunting.

 

[Xae289]

Haven't heard anything about that and nothing in the regular newsletters from DEC.

Here in Orange County, where in most of the county you can't get anywhere and NOT see a house, you can use a rifle. Dutchess County, where in over half the county you can go miles without seeing a house, is shotgun only.

But you can use a pistol in most areas. Wonder if DEC would give me any hassle about my 6.5 Grendel pistol?

I doubt it (that they'd hassle you). I've met an older guy who hunts with a Thompson single-shot pistol chambered in .30-06. Those things are pretty much just technically a pistol also.

You know I never even thought about going the pistol route here in Putnam?

I mean, I have- but not for hunting.

Since I like to go look for deer in Putnam, I was very close to making my .300 Blackout into a pistol. I didn't and built it as an Other instead which I would never take hunting and now I'm really considering building a pistol using a Remington 700 style action with a 14" barrel chambered in a straight-walled cartridge that uses commonly available pistol bullets for ease of reloading. Basically, I want to build a light-weight bolt-action pistol in .50 Beowulf, .450 Bushmaster, or .350 Legend with a 10-14" barrel, pistol grip, and arm brace. So far it doesn't look primising for me to get out of this project without spending a bunch of money. Might have to sell my 870 while it's a seller's market to get the ball rolling.

 

[Tisto]

No word.
IMO a good option would be to simply get him a single shot .410 and swap barrels but in any case
they also have the option to make a bolt action rifle that can switch barrels between a .410 for hunting and 44 mag or 30-30.
With a savage you can have also different bolt heads for other calibers like 10mm pistol or 357 for practice using a pistol mag insert.
A gunsmith can make a modular carbine system from a number of actions like an axis or a classic like a mauser 98 or even a mosin
and also make it so it can grown with the kids with an adjustable stock and comb.

One could also start with an strong 410 barrel from single shot and cut it to fit the rifle action and then make custom rifled chockes
for the different bullets.
You also have a beautiful Henry lever action in 410 ready to go and rifled chokes could be fitted.

The youth or petite people love the 410 since it is cheap to reload and can be laoded very mild and inexpensively for practice and then hot for hunting.
The 410 can be saboted with 10mm bullets for cheap practice and even use 44mag bullets depending on the bore or rifling.

410 bore shotgun is not a legal hunting implement for big game in N.Y.

New York has never toyed with the "straight wall" restriction idea as far as I know. Every year more of N.Y. is opened up to hunting with a rifle. Cartain areas will not likely ever be opened though, due to population density. Erie and Monroe counties, for example.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Since I like to go look for deer in Putnam, I was very close to making my .300 Blackout into a pistol. I didn't and built it as an Other instead which I would never take hunting and now I'm really considering building a pistol using a Remington 700 style action with a 14" barrel chambered in a straight-walled cartridge that uses commonly available pistol bullets for ease of reloading. Basically, I want to build a light-weight bolt-action pistol in .50 Beowulf, .450 Bushmaster, or .350 Legend with a 10-14" barrel, pistol grip, and arm brace. So far it doesn't look primising for me to get out of this project without spending a bunch of money. Might have to sell my 870 while it's a seller's market to get the ball rolling.

if you are willing to go with 300blk Black collar does their built pork sword pistols in a 9" barrel and looks like bare bones you can get away with about $1,500

Or I did one of their custom build pistol (this was in 350L with a 12" barrel) came out to about $1,050


Example of the pork sword

 

[Edwardteach72]

The custom built pistols give you all the different calibers and barrel length options

Custom Pork Sword Pistol Build Kit - Black Collar Arms

BYOA -- bring your own action! Configure your Pistol Build Kit to include most everything else you need to build your own custom pistol. We use X-Caliber premium match grade barrels for our Pistol Build Kits. These made-to-order barrels are among the highest quality and most accurate barrels...

blackcollararms.com

 

[meketrefe]

410 bore shotgun is not a legal hunting implement for big game in N.Y.

New York has never toyed with the "straight wall" restriction idea as far as I know. Every year more of N.Y. is opened up to hunting with a rifle. Cartain areas will not likely ever be opened though, due to population density. Erie and Monroe counties, for example.

What big game in NY?

 

[meketrefe]

If one is going with a custom bolt action pistol I am not sure why would anyone choose the 30 cal whisper/blackout that is
a subsonic caliber or any straight wall cartridge like the legend that is better than the whisper but also too slow.
The blackout is too small and rimless straight wall cartridges come with their own set of problems whether
is bolt or semi auto guns.
The mighty 358 Winchester or even a 35 rem or even a 35 herret for a conpact 6.8spc/case action will give a lot more
options and versatility and specially reliability.

 

[Vapor]

Worse case, maybe reduced recoil 20 guage slugs?

 

[Tisto]

What big game in NY?

What part don't you inderstand ? The 410 bore shotgun is not legal to use for hunting big game in N.Y. Big game, in N.Y. is defined as deer and bear. No other species have seasons for hunting, such as moose.

 

[Tisto]

OP, how old is the kid in question ? Will he be a junior hunter ? If he plans on hunting the "regular" season, keep in mind that he will be wearing a lot more clothing than he would have been wearing during the summer when he shot the 20 ga. That should provide a bit of cushioning. If he's flinching because of the recoil, he's already got some problems that will need to be addressed. Don't forget that "buck fever" is going to play a big part in his shooting abilities.

 

[Edwardteach72]

If one is going with a custom bolt action pistol I am not sure why would anyone choose the 30 cal whisper/blackout that is
a subsonic caliber or any straight wall cartridge like the legend that is better than the whisper but also too slow.
The blackout is too small and rimless straight wall cartridges come with their own set of problems whether
is bolt or semi auto guns.
The mighty 358 Winchester or even a 35 rem or even a 35 herret for a conpact 6.8spc/case action will give a lot more
options and versatility and specially reliability.

I just mentioned the 300 because it was brought up earlier

 

[Xae289]

if you are willing to go with 300blk Black collar does their built pork sword pistols in a 9" barrel and looks like bare bones you can get away with about $1,500

Or I did one of their custom build pistol (this was in 350L with a 12" barrel) came out to about $1,050


Example of the pork sword
View attachment 89544

Beautiful pistol. Bookmarked, thanks! Definitely don't want it in .300 Black. I like the chambering a lot to fill the niche of a CQB AR Other with a 16" barrel that I used to be able to get affordable supersonic factory ammo for. I'd want something more powerful for this build.

If one is going with a custom bolt action pistol I am not sure why would anyone choose the 30 cal whisper/blackout that is
a subsonic caliber or any straight wall cartridge like the legend that is better than the whisper but also too slow.
The blackout is too small and rimless straight wall cartridges come with their own set of problems whether
is bolt or semi auto guns.
The mighty 358 Winchester or even a 35 rem or even a 35 herret for a conpact 6.8spc/case action will give a lot more
options and versatility and specially reliability.

I'll have to look into the calibers. I was interested in .450 Bushmaster or .45 Raptor for a handy, short-range brush gun, but I realize I already have my .44 for that. That said, if I use it to replace my .270 rifle, I might go for a more general purpose chambering to make a long range tack-driver and hunting pistol. Maybe make it a little less handy (14-15" heavier profile barrel instead of 10-12") for a target-shooting rig that is still shorter and lighter than a 22" rifle for packing in the woods.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Beautiful pistol. Bookmarked, thanks! Definitely don't want it in .300 Black. I like the chambering a lot to fill the niche of a CQB AR Other with a 16" barrel that I used to be able to get affordable supersonic factory ammo for. I'd want something more powerful for this build.

I'll have to look into the calibers. I was interested in .450 Bushmaster or .45 Raptor for a handy, short-range brush gun, but I realize I already have my .44 for that. That said, if I use it to replace my .270 rifle, I might go for a more general purpose chambering to make a long range tack-driver and hunting pistol. Maybe make it a little less handy (14-15" heavier profile barrel instead of 10-12") for a target-shooting rig that is still shorter and lighter than a 22" rifle for packing in the woods.

Sorry didn't mean to hijack your thread here is a list of all their calibers (im sure even a combination that @meketrefe would approve of hahaha)

Black Collar Arms "Pork Sword"

Well after seeing another post and the subject of shotgun/pistol hunting only was being discussed, and then "pistols" in rifle calibers was mentioned, I decided to try and not hijack the thread and start my own. I mentioned the company Black Collar Arms and their "Pork Sword" pistol which you...

nygunforum.com

 

[NYfirefighter357]

OP, how old is the kid in question ? Will he be a junior hunter ? If he plans on hunting the "regular" season, keep in mind that he will be wearing a lot more clothing than he would have been wearing during the summer when he shot the 20 ga. That should provide a bit of cushioning. If he's flinching because of the recoil, he's already got some problems that will need to be addressed. Don't forget that "buck fever" is going to play a big part in his shooting abilities.

He's 10, he has some time before he hunts. We are being careful that he doesn't develop a flinch. He's been shooting the .22lr bolt action & he liked the 35 Remington loads but wasn't fond of the 20ga target loads. He will get more time with the air rifle & BB gun as well.

 

[meketrefe]

What part don't you inderstand ? The 410 bore shotgun is not legal to use for hunting big game in N.Y. Big game, in N.Y. is defined as deer and bear. No other species have seasons for hunting, such as moose.

I just had to check this and you are right they call ny white tail big game when in reality is medium game animal.
Of course the .410 for youth is not to take on a texan mule dear and it is marginal for the average small deer but it is not worse than many others and recoil is youth friendly. afterall, a 110gr slug within 50 yards has twice the power of a +P 9mm or a +P45 with broad wounding.
Maybe this was done because of some of the shitty .410 loads some makers still sell.
Anyway moving on since it looks not only you have to hunt with shotgun or bow in certain areas but the .410 is not an option.

 

[meketrefe]

He's 10, he has some time before he hunts. We are being careful that he doesn't develop a flinch. He's been shooting the .22lr bolt action & he liked the 35 Remington loads but wasn't fond of the 20ga target loads. He will get more time with the air rifle & BB gun as well.

With the 20 ga there are several things you can do too but give him some time and it two years he will be more comfortable
with it.

 

[camper4lyfe]

Look into a semi-auto shotgun for him. The cycling of the action mitigates some of the felt recoil.

 

[Xae289]

Look into a semi-auto shotgun for him. The cycling of the action mitigates some of the felt recoil.

Also, two cents on the shotgun, if you haven't already, maybe try fitting the shotgun to his length of pull. A shotgun (or any long-gun) that fits is more comfortable than one that's too long or short and depending on what shotgun, you might be able to find a stock with spacers so you can fit it to him now and adjust it as he grows. A comfortable recoil pad also helps if the gun doesn't have one already.

 

[Tisto]

He's 10, he has some time before he hunts. We are being careful that he doesn't develop a flinch. He's been shooting the .22lr bolt action & he liked the 35 Remington loads but wasn't fond of the 20ga target loads. He will get more time with the air rifle & BB gun as well.

At 10, he still has a few years to grow. An autoloader will help a great deal. Get him shooting trap or skeet with a 20 ga and light loads. As he gets used to the recoil you can transition him to standard loads, and then to heavy loads. By then, the slugs should be no problem for him. He has 3 - 4 years to grow and toughen up. Plenty of time. Teach him properly and everything will be fine.

 

[Robin]

Is anyone hearing anything about making straight walled rifle cartridges legal in NY for shotgun only areas? We are thinking of getting a 350 Legend bolt rifle for my buddies son. The 20ga sabot slugs are a little rough on him. He was shooting my 35 Remington loads, 160gr MP 360-640 Cramer style mold w/Penta HP pistol bullets over 10gr Unique and like it. Either way it looks like they are getting one but we were just wondering if straight wall rifle would ever become a legal deer hunting rifle here.

If you belong to a gun and or archery club the chances are the club belongs to the NYS Conservation Council, or should. The council will take recommendations from clubs and act as an advocate for changing laws, they are very effective. I managed to get a muzzleloader law changed through them.
the last few years the DEC has been expanding types of weapons and areas where they may be used, so it would be worth the effort. Sometimes, one guy can make a difference.
Robin

 

[NYfirefighter357]

If you belong to a gun and or archery club the chances are the club belongs to the NYS Conservation Council, or should. The council will take recommendations from clubs and act as an advocate for changing laws, they are very effective. I managed to get a muzzleloader law changed through them.
the last few years the DEC has been expanding types of weapons and areas where they may be used, so it would be worth the effort. Sometimes, one guy can make a difference.
Robin

We are not. Though we are a registered hunting club for insurance reasons that's about as far as it goes. We have less than 20 members and only hunt 1 piece of property. Most of these guys have been friends or the sons of the friends that have been hunting it for 70 years.

 

[repete]

I just had to check this and you are right they call ny white tail big game when in reality is medium game animal.
Of course the .410 for youth is not to take on a texan mule dear and it is marginal for the average small deer but it is not worse than many others and recoil is youth friendly. afterall, a 110gr slug within 50 yards has twice the power of a +P 9mm or a +P45 with broad wounding.
Maybe this was done because of some of the shitty .410 loads some makers still sell.
Anyway moving on since it looks not only you have to hunt with shotgun or bow in certain areas but the .410 is not an option.

Actually the reason a .410 isn't legal for big game dates back to the shot gun only time, a .410 is a caliber and not a "gauge" thus it's not a shotgun. Or it could be that it's not considered powerful enough, Or so I'm told. I'm also told that they are very accurate with slugs but have no experience with a .410 other than shooting clay birds with my TC Contender.