Third Circuit Rules NJ Assault Weapons Ban Unconstitutional

[Criticalt]

Just my annual reminder after well over a decade now, The SAFE ACT is here to stay, and NYS gun laws will only get worse NOT better. It's really that simple folks.

Exactly.
This is why we need to popularize a "take a leftist to the range" day.
Ive heard rumors, and have one

Ahh, but NY's pistol permit scheme IS an undue burden.
Imagine having to beg permission of the government to exercise a Right, pay exorbitant fees for fingerprinting, background checks, and processing, now spend hours of your time getting "trained", only to end up having to beg for permission each time you buy a gun and wait until you can get your permission slip amended to include that gun in their registry.
With the costs, delays, etc., of this scheme, it should have been thrown out decades ago.


how is that going to help? I thought you needed to have anything you buy there shipped to an FFL, and FFLs in those states need to make sure you have all of the NY required bullshit (ie: semi-auto endorsement to buy lowers).


I have also been considering an AR-10 or, if I can find one, an AR-9mm for a lefty for the missus.

I haven't actually bought a semi auto sinse the CCIA. But, I was told by my local PA FFL that as long as you can legally buy a rifle in NYS, the can sell you one. So if you have the semi auto endorsement, you should be good to go.
But my shop is on the NY/PA border and they get a lot of NYS business. They both know the laws, and will do anything they can to legally get you a firearm. They work with several NY FFLs to make buying a pistol seamless. Maybe that's what the shop owner meant, that they could use a NY FFL like they do with handguns.
Either way, If I get one hour I can choose, buy, and transfer a rifle. Heres that perk to living 5 miles from a PA gun shop full of cool guys...and a girl.

 

[Saltwater60]

Sure, this is essentially my thought, except that I don't even know that I'd say I'm optimistic.. Like many of you, I'm just too cynical and too sick ofNY for that in general, but it is still big. While I did say, "That sets an absolute precedent for NY's laws to be brought down next.", in my previous post , that for sure doesn't mean that I don't fully expect them to come up with whatever bullshit they can. I expect difficult and expensive licensing schemes will the the place of bans in NJ and probably later NY, much as other members have suggested in this and the supreme court case. It'll never stop, and these states will ground and pound gun owners in whatever way they can for as long as they can.


I admit I haven't read all of it, but (as other members have already said) it may leave New Jersey no ground on which to stand under their current laws, but I expect it'll be maybe only days (perhaps hours) before we see new laws immediately applied to circumvent the decision just as we saw here with CCIA.
They'll have to admit we're allowed to own them, but what's in the decision to stop them from saying "OK, you can own these things, but we can make you get a license under extreme difficulty and expense to do so" ? I don't actually know if there's anything in there that stops them from doing and I'd be pleased to be wrong here.

Scouts has already said licenses and training are ok but they can’t be overly expensive or burdensome to obtain. That’s already been addressed. What’s the limits to that? I suspect we will find out 22 years from now when NYS and NJ say every week you need to reapply and get trained at the cost of $400/week to obtain these weapons. Of course some sarcasm in there.
I suspect NYS will treat them like pistols and we will be forced to list them on our semi auto permit along with some other hoops.

 

[Defilade]

licensing and permit to purchase schemes will undoubtedly be the next vehicle used. They will try to make it so expensive and cumbersome with training requirements that you'll just not bother. This is the "Footnote # 9" in BRUEN. That basically says that licensing and training requirements are "..not presumably unconstitutional as long as they don't present an undue burden.." But, that is where the fight will manifest. New York and the dozen other States that impose this tactic will have to defend that in court. That is why I said that "Footnote # 9" will have to be addressed - it will - and it will take time. But the trend is going in the direction of freedem and liberty nationwide.

Anyone with an IQ higher than burnt popcorn should understand that when the Democrats are in power in DC, they impose restrictions on a federal level. When they are not in power, they switch to working at the State level. Over the past 50ish years, they've been quite successful. But now the people are coming to realize that they've already eaten half the elephant one slice at a time, and they've had enough.

It is my opinion that immigration (legal and illegal as well) is the biggest threat to the 2A. People that have no history of owning arms do not understand the importance of it and will not fight to maintain it. Which political party is hell bent on flooding the country with these people ?

Yep the bastards always leave a gray area open. Worthless fucks! No infringement means No infringement!

 

[Grimscale]

This is why we need to popularize a "take a leftist to the range" day.

Unfortunately the range I go to prohibits human-image targets, including images of zombies, mother-in-laws, and politicians (politicians are humans?). I'm sure they would balk at shooting at an actual human.

So if you have the semi auto endorsement, you should be good to go.

Fuck new yorkistan.
I'm tired of having to get permission to exercise a Right.
I don't care how easy they claim it is.

And expecting that for an object that is neither semi-auto, nor capable of even firing a single round without further parts, is ludicrous in the extreme.

 

[Bustedknees]

Most likely a year out before we get to the decision, unless it's leaked.
This one is like an all or nothing ruling for gun rights. This is why I think Robert's will show his true left colors again.
But I guess we finally get a shot at regaining a constitutional right again.

 

[spat]

Unfortunately the range I go to prohibits human-image targets, including images of zombies, mother-in-laws, and politicians (politicians are humans?). I'm sure they would balk at shooting at an actual human.


Fuck new yorkistan.
I'm tired of having to get permission to exercise a Right.
I don't care how easy they claim it is.

And expecting that for an object that is neither semi-auto, nor capable of even firing a single round without further parts, is ludicrous in the extreme.

You need a better range.

 

[DoD1776]

Just my annual reminder after well over a decade now, The SAFE ACT is here to stay, and NYS gun laws will only get worse NOT better. It's really that simple folks.

Yup. If it wasn’t it would’ve been to scotus awhile ago I imagine…

 

[VietnamEraVet]

Most likely a year out before we get to the decision, unless it's leaked.
This one is like an all or nothing ruling for gun rights. This is why I think Robert's will show his true left colors again.
But I guess we finally get a shot at regaining a constitutional right again.

Yep. IMHO Roberts is a traitor and a full on treasonous POS who always seems to stab us on important decisions

Honestly, can’t wait for him to be replaced on SCOTUS someday.

 

[OwnTheRide]

Roberts seems way more concerned with the public's perception of the court than he is with the validity or correctness of its rulings.

 

[Defilade]

Roberts seems way more concerned with the public's perception of the court than he is with the validity or correctness of its rulings.

He is being told how to rule with certain issues I'm sure.

 

[Darth]

You need a better range.

One thing I hate more than anti gunners is those "on our side" that invent their own imaginary restrictions for no reason whatsoever.

 

[Tisto]

One thing I hate more than anti gunners is those "on our side" that invent their own imaginary restrictions for no reason whatsoever.

Aint that the truth !!

The club I belong to has so damn many stupid F'ing rules it's funny. No people shaped targets*. No defensive practice ( draw from holster and shoot ). None other than paper targets on boards ( no clay pidgeons, steel, or plastic reactive targets ). No shooting more than X rounds per minute ( this number changes depending on which old fudd is crying "YOU'RE SHOOTING TOO FAST ! ). And our newest solution in search of a problem, no shooting past 100 yards unless a range officer has certified ypu to do so. And there are many more.
* = The "people shaped targets" rule finally got modified after many years of challenging it. Now you can't have people shaped targets if they actually look like a person. So, a standard B27 target is ok, but none of those targets showing a man holding a hostage or a knife or anything like that.

 

[Darth]

Aint that the truth !!

The club I belong to has so damn many stupid F'ing rules it's funny. No people shaped targets*. No defensive practice ( draw from holster and shoot ). None other than paper targets on boards ( no clay pidgeons, steel, or plastic reactive targets ). No shooting more than X rounds per minute ( this number changes depending on which old fudd is crying "YOU'RE SHOOTING TOO FAST ! ). And our newest solution in search of a problem, no shooting past 100 yards unless a range officer has certified ypu to do so. And there are many more.
* = The "people shaped targets" rule finally got modified after many years of challenging it. Now you can't have people shaped targets if they actually look like a person. So, a standard B27 target is ok, but none of those targets showing a man holding a hostage or a knife or anything like that.

I have zero tolerance for such things.

No I do not care how it “makes us look.” No I do not care about the neighbors complaining the gun range is loud. No I do not care that “we’ve seen some real poor gun handling here from some folk.”

 

[spat]

Roberts seems way more concerned with the public's perception of the court than he is with the validity or correctness of its rulings.

History will not remember him kindly for that.

Ironically by concentrating on his legacy, he is guaranteeing it will be seen very badly.

 

[Robin]

I think you give him too much credit for actually thinking and reasoning. He is just a tool that makes up rationalizations for the unconstitutional decisions he is told to make.
Robin

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Aint that the truth !!

The club I belong to has so damn many stupid F'ing rules it's funny. No people shaped targets*. No defensive practice ( draw from holster and shoot ). None other than paper targets on boards ( no clay pidgeons, steel, or plastic reactive targets ). No shooting more than X rounds per minute ( this number changes depending on which old fudd is crying "YOU'RE SHOOTING TOO FAST ! ). And our newest solution in search of a problem, no shooting past 100 yards unless a range officer has certified ypu to do so. And there are many more.
* = The "people shaped targets" rule finally got modified after many years of challenging it. Now you can't have people shaped targets if they actually look like a person. So, a standard B27 target is ok, but none of those targets showing a man holding a hostage or a knife or anything like that.

I think you're spending your money, time and energy in the wrong club.

 

[Zerex]

The AW case has not even been heard yet................cases will be consolidated and then tried...................MAYBE.
they could still decline it all.


Next the gun range rules are made for all of us...........................Tombstone Arizona days are long gone.
NO bump firing, No MG's, no mag dumps, no human targets, drinking generally not allowed.........all because of past violators..that may be you.

Grow up.

 

[Parzival]

Next the gun range rules are made for all of us...........................Tombstone Arizona days are long gone.
NO bump firing, No MG's, no mag dumps, no human targets, drinking generally not allowed.........all because of past violators..that may be you.

Expect for the drinking thing…which is obvious when shooting a firearm.

None of these are rules are my range.

 

[REF]

The AW case has not even been heard yet................cases will be consolidated and then tried...................MAYBE.
they could still decline it all.


Next the gun range rules are made for all of us...........................Tombstone Arizona days are long gone.
NO bump firing, No MG's, no mag dumps, no human targets, drinking generally not allowed.........all because of past violators..that may be you.

Grow up.

If , at the range, you’re being considerate and safe, (except for drinking), then fuck those dumb rules……….FUDD

 

[Tisto]

I think you're spending your money, time and energy in the wrong club.

I never said I obey the rules. There's a reason I go to the range when I'm pretty sure nobody else will be there. Of course, I always have to take a toy that I can play with in case there is someone else there, but that's just the way it goes.

I would be happy to find a better club, but anything better is an hour drive away and/or super expensive.

Most of the old geezers at my club rue the day they installed a rifle range. They had everything they wanted - two trap fields and a bar. Nothing else. Then the 30' berm went in, and they have done nothing but complain about it ever since. They just can't pull themselves out of 1955 and accept that there's more to a "gun club" than their prescious trap fields. They HATE the members that use the range, so they make as many dumbass rules as they can. Sounds a whole lot like DEMOCRATS to me. I'm pretty sure most of them are.

 

[Tisto]

The AW case has not even been heard yet................cases will be consolidated and then tried...................MAYBE.
they could still decline it all.


Next the gun range rules are made for all of us...........................Tombstone Arizona days are long gone.
NO bump firing, No MG's, no mag dumps, no human targets, drinking generally not allowed.........all because of past violators..that may be you.

Grow up.

Yeah...just like your SAFE ACT. Keeping everyone healthy and happy. Or something.

 

[spat]

The AW case has not even been heard yet................cases will be consolidated and then tried...................MAYBE.
they could still decline it all.


Next the gun range rules are made for all of us...........................Tombstone Arizona days are long gone.
NO bump firing, No MG's, no mag dumps, no human targets, drinking generally not allowed.........all because of past violators..that may be you.

Grow up.

You cannot solve the problem of assholes at your range by adding stupid rules.

The only correct solution is to remove the assholes and keep the rules reasonable.

 

[Tisto]

The AW case has not even been heard yet................cases will be consolidated and then tried...................MAYBE.
they could still decline it all.


Next the gun range rules are made for all of us...........................Tombstone Arizona days are long gone.
NO bump firing, No MG's, no mag dumps, no human targets, drinking generally not allowed.........all because of past violators..that may be you.

Grow up.

The Veramontes and Grant cases have been accepted. They WILL be argued and a decision WILL be issued. Further, there were several leftover cases from the last term that WERE NOT dismissed. They are still alive in front of SCOTUS. They include Gator's and Duncan among others. Those cases are on ice, awaiting the outcome of Veramontes and Grant at which time they will be GVR'ed and sent back.

 

[Zerex]

I am nearly 80 and I knew the WWII "fudds", during the 1950's, until they mostly died off.

Many of them saw combat and relied upon MG's, flamethrowers, Tanks, Grenades and were killers.
I worked for a Bulge Vet, a N Africa Vet, an Iwo Vet and worked with plenty of Normandy and Italy vets.

They hunted deer with older bolt action rifles, 30-30's and shotguns.

Most ranges were set up by them years ago.

Subsequent generations running the clubs saw the degeneration of discipline and irresponsible gun behavior by idiots spouting the 2nd amendment and "rots"

Recent rules were enacted because of YOU................... it is safer with you constrained.

 

[Robin]

I am nearly 80 and I knew the WWII "fudds", during the 1950's, until they mostly died off.

Many of them saw combat and relied upon MG's, flamethrowers, Tanks, Grenades and were killers.
I worked for a Bulge Vet, a N Africa Vet, an Iwo Vet and worked with plenty of Normandy and Italy vets.

They hunted deer with older bolt action rifles, 30-30's and shotguns.

Most ranges were set up by them years ago.

Subsequent generations running the clubs saw the degeneration of discipline and irresponsible gun behavior by idiots spouting the 2nd amendment and "rots"

Recent rules were enacted because of YOU................... it is safer with you constrained.

Pretty much, so did I, even grew up with one as a father, oh yeah and uncles too. I'm not sure what that has to do with restrictive rules at gun clubs. I myself am a combat veteran and have always advocated to expel members that use unsafe practices rather than punish the entire membership .
They hunted deer with a variation of guns used pretty extensively in a couple world wars, just as many hunters use rifles similar to rifles used in recent American wars.
They did start up many of the clubs that are still in service today.
The rest of your rant is pretty much bull shit. your fears do not protect me.
Robin

 

[REF]

I am nearly 80 and I knew the WWII "fudds", during the 1950's, until they mostly died off.

Many of them saw combat and relied upon MG's, flamethrowers, Tanks, Grenades and were killers.
I worked for a Bulge Vet, a N Africa Vet, an Iwo Vet and worked with plenty of Normandy and Italy vets.

They hunted deer with older bolt action rifles, 30-30's and shotguns.

Most ranges were set up by them years ago.

Subsequent generations running the clubs saw the degeneration of discipline and irresponsible gun behavior by idiots spouting the 2nd amendment and "rots"

Recent rules were enacted because of YOU................... it is safer with you constrained.

You’re delusional. Keep living on your knees.

 

[Tisto]

I am nearly 80 and I knew the WWII "fudds", during the 1950's, until they mostly died off.

Many of them saw combat and relied upon MG's, flamethrowers, Tanks, Grenades and were killers.
I worked for a Bulge Vet, a N Africa Vet, an Iwo Vet and worked with plenty of Normandy and Italy vets.

They hunted deer with older bolt action rifles, 30-30's and shotguns.

Most ranges were set up by them years ago.

Subsequent generations running the clubs saw the degeneration of discipline and irresponsible gun behavior by idiots spouting the 2nd amendment and "rots"

Recent rules were enacted because of YOU................... it is safer with you constrained.

I'm a vet, been in more firefights than I care to or am able to remember, had to kill enemy combatants, had to destroy boats and illegal cargo, and grew up with/know combat vets too. That has NOTHING to do with STUPID rules at gun clubs. There is nothing undisceplined about "long range" (beyond 100 yards) [Ha! That's 'long range' ?!] shooting, or practicing defensive handgun use. Nothing at all undisceplined at all about shooting the perp and not the hostage of a people shaped target. One might even say that BUILDS discepline if they had an IQ above that of burnt popcorn.

None of those vets you mention hunted deer with anything other than a shotgun or a bow. The use of rifles and pistols is a relatively new thing in PRNY only becoming legal in the past 20~25 years or so. Hell, it wasn't until about 1995 that Sunday hunting became legal in trial areas, and it wasn't widely accepted until about 1999 ! It was WELL after that when rifle hunting began in very limited areas.

Quit making up stories. Stupid rules don't make anyone safer. Safe gun handling and training make people safer. The fact is, some FUDDS just don't like things because they're not interested and that means nobody should be allowed to do them. Sounds a whole lot like Democrat mentality.