Trump administration wants to restore gun rights to reformed criminals
- Thread starter livingston
- Start date
livingston
20×102mm Vulcan
Prosecutor discusses DOJ plan to revisit gun rights for those with criminal convictions
stokes
.338 Win Mag
How about restoring gun rights to non criminal NY'ers?
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
This 1000%.
Bigfoot
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I nominate you/this for the Internet of the day award.
stokes
.338 Win Mag
I firmly believe that if you commit a felony, there are consequences, jail time, loss of voting rights, loss of gun ownership etc. Not looking to argue the point of whether loss of gun ownership is right or wrong, but it is the choice you made when you held up that bodega. Should the law be changed? Probably but until it is, you, as a felon made the choice to gamble away your priveledges. Trump should be looking at us non felon citizens before he worries about criminals.
livingston
20×102mm Vulcan
They are talking about non violent felons.
Look at NJ gun laws
Our Criminal Code outlaws hollow nose bullets under certain circumstances. Specifically, the controlling statute, N.J.S.A. 2C:39-3, reads as follows, any person who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. A fourth degree offense is considered a felony and accordingly, subjects a person to possible prison time (up to 18 months) as well as a number of fines and other monetary penalties.
Possession of Hollow Point Bullets | 4th Degree Hollow Nose Bullet Charges in New Jersey
Possession of hollow point bullets (also known as hollow nose bullets) is a fourth degree felony charge in New Jersey punishable by 18 months in prison.
www.newjerseygunlawyers.com
stokes
.338 Win Mag
While I dont agree with the law, it is the law. For 20 yrs I lived in Staten Island and went into NJ often. I was active LE and I made sure every time I did I loaded a mag with FMJ non hollow points. It aint hard. My point in my response above is that I'd rather see him correct the problems we law abiding citizens have with our rights before he even thinks about ex cons.
But how about Brian Range who lied on a food stamp application 30+ years ago?
Every judge he's been in front of recently say his rights should be restored, and they have been restored.
Or, how about me.....
36 years ago I was bullhead fishing with a friend. Long story short, cops showed up, found my auto knife, arrested me and being told by the judge that this is just a little, non violent thing. No need for a trial, just court costs and this would never affect my life.
Well, after years of buying guns, in 2015, I was denied by NICS for a handgun purchase. I find out that NYS denied it due to a 4th degree criminal possession of a weapon charge from 1989.
Ok, seriously, long story short.
Had to get a Certificate of Relief from the court to get my rights back. Sinse then my NICS checks take about 3 minutes.
The kicker......the knife was absolutely legal while fishing then, and now. That's why our local judge took literally 30 seconds to grant my COD. This usually takes weeks.
Also, the judge back in 1989, told me I didn't need a lawyer for such an insignificant charge.
So, let's see.......the judge CONVICTED me of a NON crime, right after telling me I didn't need a lawyer. This was after I ASKED for a lawyer. Unfortunately this judge has been dead for a couple decades.
And THIS is why parents need to teach their dumb kids how to deal with the law.
I was an 18 year old suburban kid with zero interactions with the law.
Before anyone mentions it, the weapons charge I got in 1989 was a class A misdemeanor. But, NYS does not realize a difference between a felony and some class A misdemeanors when it comes yo gun rights.
The charge I got DID fall in the "no guns for you" category. But, I bought dozens of guns, got a pistol permit and bought handguns from 1989-2015. Then all of a sudden, no guns for me.
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Privileges?
I'm assuming you erred in using that term.
These are RIGHTS, not privileges.
Yup...and crap laws should never be challenged or changed?
Laws that run afoul of the Constitution should never be challenged?
With States like NY, NJ, CA making every little thing a "felony", it makes sense to change this.
This isn't someone holding up a bodega. This could be someone who J-walked three times, or spit on a sidewalk, or talked back to a judge.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
There is a process already in place whereby a convicted felon's can restore the rights they lost through their own doing's. I knew of someone that was going through that process but never heard how he made out. His case was pretty well known in the Rochester area, maybe nation wide, something about getting drugs through UPS or something like that.
Robin
Robin
This. I can understand and appreciate the sentiment. Governing and budgeting come down to one issue - priorities. There isn't enough time in a single day or term to get everything done. I would much rather see a focus on gun rights for law abiding citizens first.
I went through the process for a class A misdemeanor which NYS considers SOME class A misdemeanors identical to a felony. I was never federally barred from owning a firearm, but I wss barred in NYS. It's all in my post above.
You need to get a "Certificate of Relief" from the court that convicted you. Then it's up to the judge. Not all felonies can get a COR, just a very few non violent felonies in NYS.
stokes
.338 Win Mag
You were arrested in 1989? You would have been assigned an attorney at your arraignment. If your story is true, and I have my doubts, you should have filed an appeal and you should have sued. In any event, you were arrested and convicted of an offense that resulted in the denial of a right. You received a relief from civil disabilities, the law worked this time.
This is why I said I didnt want to argue as to whether the laws should be there or not. Dont put fuckin words in my mouth, I never said or inferred they shouldnt be challenged. What I did say, and you quoted me, is that I dont agree with the law.
None of those examples constitute a felony, stop making shit up, makes you sound like a libtard.
That is also a lot of bullshit, most applicants except for violent offenders, and a majority of felons in the system are non-violent, not "just a very few", are granted the certificate.
Nope, absolutely true.
Obviously you didn't understand what I said.
When I first went in front of the judge, he told me I didn't need a lawyer for such a crime. The next time, I plead guilty, it was over. This is how small town justice works sometimes.
I heard nothing of it until the denial in 2015.
You better be careful who you call a liar.
Here is the COD with name and addresses covered. And apparently it wss 1990....and I'm 6 feet, not 5'11"
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And yes, "a very few" felonies can receive a COR in NYS. It's not hard to find out.
You need to keep your mouth shut when you don't know what you're talking about.
It's bitches like you that would NEVER talk like this in person.
You feel attacked, so you lash out. Then call other people "libtards".
You lose this argument. Most here are 2nd amendment absolutests and believe "shall not be infringed". Obviously this is not you, so move on.
libertysnake
.338 Win Mag
You either did the time for the crime or you didn't.
Everything is a felony these days it's insane. Breathing is a felony in NY.
If you're out of jail you should get your rights back. End of story.
stokes
.338 Win Mag
Having worked in the NYC Criminal Court for 30 yrs I have seen more certificates granted than not. And you know what about the numbers involved? Maybe you should keep your mouth shut, bitch.
Wasnt questioning the fact that you got a certificate, just the fact that you didnt have legal rep. If a judge told you, on the record that you didnt need a lawyer for a felony charge you would have a major lawsuit going.
OwnTheRide
6.5 Creedmoor
My first impression was that, yes, he could have filed a major lawsuit.
Keep in mind that we're talking about town justices here, not judges. There's a big difference. The requirements to be a town justice amount to "be elected." One does not need to be a lawyer, have a law degree, pass the bar, etc.
stokes
.338 Win Mag
Believe it or not, criminal court judges arent even elected, they are appointed by a mayor, and most are, but dont have to be a lawyer. Supreme court justices are even shadier, candidates are selected by the political party and every election I've seen in my 30 yrs in the system candidates dont have an opponent, same name on the dem and rep slate. Town justices dont handle felonies, they are sent to the county court.
Vicarious
.40 S&W
I have no problems with some, if not most nonviolent Felons having their rights restored, if a 19 year old single mom takes 2k in food stamps shes not entitled to, why should she lose her 2A for life as an example.
In fact, im much more libertarian minded than that even. As long as they are not violent felonies, Im all for it
In fact, im much more libertarian minded than that even. As long as they are not violent felonies, Im all for it
"Life Lesson should not be a Life Sentence"
There are many Felonies that really shouldn't be...
Young people tend to make mistakes that after being punished, perhaps shouldn't ruin their entire future...
OK, you got busted for felony possession of marijuana, maybe intent to distribute, did your time, followed up with Court O&C's now you'd like to make something out of your life, perhaps wanting to Hunt to feed the Family, Shoot some clay's, live in a bad neighborhood, etc. I'm ok with reinstatement of Civil Rights...murderous thug, well fuck you, you'll go right back to doing what you did with illegal guns no matter what the Law.
Ever notice how ALL of the Gun seizures invariably involve prohibited persons that got guns anyways?
Conspiracy: Democrats want to disarm the population in case a foreign entity attacks and they can try to be the saviors, while the Republicans want the populace armed so they can save themselves.
RedBreast21
6.5 Creedmoor
Now we are getting into a more complex discussion for sure. I don't believe in crimes being felonies in one state and not in others which then strips someone of their Constitutional rights should they leave the state. Felony crimes should be prosecuted at the Federal level if they are to deny rights to anyone if convicted. So for starters, unless the state felony crime was prosecuted at the Federal level, all rights restored. At the Federal level, maybe only violent crimes should be considered for removal of a right. 
OwnTheRide
6.5 Creedmoor
Violent or no, once a person has served their sentence (including follow-up conditions), they should have their rights fully restored.
If you can't trust them out on the streets with a gun, they shouldn't be out of prison in the first place.
If you can't trust them out on the streets with a gun, they shouldn't be out of prison in the first place.
There was no record, no court room.
I was weeks away from leaving for college, and after that a scholarship to Cornell.
I met with the judge in his chambers, just him and I. He told me that if brought to trial, this could affect my future if convicted. And it wasn't a felony. It was a class A misdemeanor, which NYS treats as a felony as far as denying your 2a rights.
I told him I was going to talk to a lawyer. He said fine, but that WILL put this "on the record". And that if I just plea guilty and pay the court costs, this all disappears forever and it will NEVER affect my life.
This judge was extremely respected. There are buildings named after him, and a school, Robert H Jackson school in Frewsburg NY.
My dad knew him and he told me to listen closely to the judge, "he's a good man".
Again, I was weeks away from leaving for Penn State, with direct transfer to Cornell.
I REALLY wanted this to go away. I did what the judge suggested.....and all was good.
For over 2 decades I kept the firearms I already had, I bought dozens more, got my pistol permit, bought many handguns......
Jump to March? 2015.
I was denied for a handgun purchase. I had not had even a traffic ticket sinse "knifegate".
Because the FBI is impossible to work with, I immediately hired a 2a attorney. I found out that the denial came from NYS because of the "switchblade" charge. (It was NOT a switchblade, but that's what was in the arrest record). It was a predecessor of the modern automatic knife that I bought in Erie PA the year before.
How was I able to keep, bear and buy arms for decades, then all of a sudden denied? Nobody really answered that. I have a letter from the NYSDCJS which doesn't say much, just that their records may have been updated.
Then the rest you know......COR, 2.5 year wait, email to Trump, 5 days later my rights were restored with an offer for an expedited UPIN number.
Listen man, I don't care what you believe.
This is what happened. Things were a bit more "relaxed" in a small town court back then. The judge did me a "favor". I honestly believe he did this as a favor to my family and he had no ill intent. Due to this not being a felony, it really didn't affect my life.....until 2015. My only real regret was not contacting the Trump team sooner.
I should add that during the 2.5 years after the denial, I called the NYSP about my carry permit. I talked to a Lieutenant? /Captain?.....he told me I was good to carry and own guns until notified otherwise. So I just went along as normal, I just couldn't buy any firearms.
Ok, I'm done here, this goes nowhere.
No hard feelings on my end, so we can just carry on and drop this. It wasn't my proudest moment in life.
stokes
.338 Win Mag
Like I said earlier, not looking to argue the validity of the law, just that it is the law, and Trump shouldnt be trying to help ex cons before he takes care of law abiding persons. If what you say here is what actually happened, there was a lot of stupidity on everybody's part. If you were arrested, you should have been arraigned, at which time weather you wanted an attorney or not, one should have been there at the arraignment. In your case the loss of rights shouldnt be applied, but there are a lot of ex cons, felons who get out and just keep living a life of crime. When you knowingly commit a felony or certain class a mis, you know the penalty includes losing 2a and voting rights so you are risking a lifetime ban on these rights.
Relief from Disabilities.....has always REQUIRED CASH DONATIONS, thru the lawyer to grease the system.................ATF has slowly handed it for years.............will be expedited...........
Cleaning up the process is overdue................either a quick, Yes or No, should be ez to institute.
Cleaning up the process is overdue................either a quick, Yes or No, should be ez to institute.
Old Jalopy
.45 acp
You are all missing a key factor why this will happen! Trump is now a convicted felon and lost is right to bear arms. If I recall, he owned some firearms prior to those convictions. When it hits home, things get done! The rest of us don't matter.