Trump's "listening session" on guns, not what the grabbers expected

[96coal449]

This is all mind boggling.
How about we close our fucking borders. There goes the hard drug problem. Unless the CIA is going to continue trafficking them.
Then we establish a VT style open carry .... nation wide. I think that would solve everything.
And while were at it ..... repeal the NFA ACT of 1934 ..... reestablishing Common Use.

 

[Airborneguy]

How about this. Let's keep it real simple:

From a personal liberty perspective, it's not the government’s job to tell you what you put in your body. That's not pie int the sky. That's patriotism.

Even if it does increase crime by allowing people to choose what they put into their bodies, you don't strip everyone of the choice to do so.

Ok, and as I’ve asked twice already. That’s great, now what’s the plan to deal with the resulting effects?

The problem with this site is everyone wants to spout platitudes, but that’s about as “meaty” as the discussions ever get. It’s boring. I rarely join in anymore for this reason.

Let’s discuss. Someone throw out some stats. I’ll do it regarsing Od’s, medical costs, police costs, etc. if I see that someone is willing to actually debate deeper than “well it’s my rights” and “this is apples, which is similar to oranges.”

 

[Airborneguy]

If drugs and guns were legalized, policing and overtime would go downhill. The prison system would be minimal. Almost all crimes and prison lock ups are drug related. Very few people are actually in prison for murder and rape.

Robberies would be about the only major crime left but those would be minimal if people could defend themselves.

Robberies aren’t the #1 crime effected by addicts to futher their habits. Car break ins are by far the worst, followed by burglaries.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Robberies aren’t the #1 crime effected by addicts to futher their habits. Car break ins are by far the worst, followed by burglaries.

Ok?

 

[libertysnake]

Ok, and as I’ve asked twice already. That’s great, now what’s the plan to deal with the resulting effects?

The problem with this site is everyone wants to spout platitudes, but that’s about as “meaty” as the discussions ever get. It’s boring. I rarely join in anymore for this reason.

Let’s discuss. Someone throw out some stats. I’ll do it regarsing Od’s, medical costs, police costs, etc. if I see that someone is willing to actually debate deeper than “well it’s my rights” and “this is apples, which is similar to oranges.”

It's a reality, not really a "problem" with this site. The people set the laws, which LEO then enforces. LEO doesn't set the policy because of how easy something is to enforce or not. They set it by the mandate they're given to uphold the choices of the people.

Moving beyond that fact, do I know what the best option is for enforcement of a law the people have chosen? I'm not sure if I know the 'best' solution. In fact, that's your job specifically, and you're welcome to give your expertise about how to best deal with a world in which we've legalized personal drug use.

We have guidelines for personal protection on the books already, so that's a good starting deterrent. I'd like to see more reasonable "stand your ground" laws in NY like other states, which, I think, would help aid, only in part, as a deterrent to crime that may or may not come of legalized drug use.

What other suggestions did you have?

 

[Airborneguy]

Ok?

No one to “defend” against those crimes. By definition they happen when no one is around. As a direct quality of life issue, citizens tend to get angry when those crimes rise in frequency.

 

[Airborneguy]

It's a reality, not really a "problem" with this site. The people set the laws, which LEO then enforces. LEO doesn't set the policy because of how easy something is to enforce or not. They set it by the mandate they're given to uphold the choices of the people.

Moving beyond that fact, do I know what the best option is for enforcement of a law the people have chosen? I'm not sure if I know the 'best' solution. In fact, that's your job specifically, and you're welcome to give your expertise about how to best deal with a world in which we've legalized personal drug use.

We have guidelines for personal protection on the books already, so that's a good starting deterrent. I'd like to see more reasonable "stand your ground" laws in NY like other states, which, I think, would help aid, only in part, as a deterrent to crime that may or may not come of legalized drug use.

What other suggestions did you have?

Let’s back up. I asked of those who want to legalize all drugs what thought process has gone into any possible results. I mentioned other things besides crime.

Are you saying that basically that’s not your concern?

 

[Marine Cpl]

No one to “defend” against those crimes. By definition they happen when no one is around. As a direct quality of life issue, citizens tend to get angry when those crimes rise in frequency.

I've got no problem and would rather deal with that.

 

[libertysnake]

Let’s back up. I asked of those who want to legalize all drugs what thought process has gone into any possible results. I mentioned other things besides crime.

Are you saying that basically that’s not your concern?

I think there should be proper labeling, so people know what they're getting into. That's something I'd say is important, and proper enforcement of it will be key to letting people make the choices they want to make.

While I'm generally not a fan of increasing taxes, I do think we should enforce a proper tax on legalized drug use so that we can provide, with that tax money from its very users, treatment options to help people get off drugs -- should they desire it.

Outside of that, do I believe it's my place to tell someone what to put into their body, so long as they're leaving me alone? No. As long as they're willing to pay the tax, and the consequences of their actions while they're high, then go for it.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Let’s back up. I asked of those who want to legalize all drugs what thought process has gone into any possible results. I mentioned other things besides crime.

Are you saying that basically that’s not your concern?

If it keeps the prisons empty of drug related crimes and keeps the police free from focusing their attention on trying to stop drugs, it isn't a concern to me.

Residual drug problems will eventually level themselves out and crime would plummet if the people were allowed to protect themselves and their property.

The same people doing drugs now will do them later no matter if they are legal or illegal.

 

[libertysnake]

If it keeps the prisons empty of drug related crimes and keeps the police free from focusing their attention on trying to stop drugs, it isn't a concern to me.

Residual drug problems will eventually level themselves out and crime would plummet if the people were allowed to protect themselves and their property.

The same people doing drugs now will do them later no matter if they are legal or illegal.

Yeah, I don't think we're going to see drugs become the next thing to spread on your sandwich or something and replace everything else. Most people aren't going to be interested, regardless of legality. Most people...

 

[Airborneguy]

Yeah, I don't think we're going to see drugs become the next thing to spread on your sandwich

This has literally happened with legal marijuana. I’ve seen forms of heroin and other opiods as well. For awhile, “strips” were very popular. Basically a disolving strip you put in your mouth like those listerine things.

 

[dsdmmat]

Well one thing is for sure, the revelations that the FBI dropped the ball dozens of times and the police failure to engage the active shooter is putting a damper on the libs talking point that you don’t need a gun because the police will protect you.

 

[Marine Cpl]

So what? Some people leave alcohol alone and some abuse it. Pills are relatively easy to get. Some leave it alone and some abuse it. Same with legal marijuana that anyone can get a prescription for. Some abuse it and some leave it alone.

 

[Robin]

Best black market cigarette industry in the country, right here, why(?) taxes!!!!! Not that the G gives a crap about smoking, its a fund raiser. They will do the same with drugs if they are all made legal, and that will amp up the crime rate again. A vicious circle created by and a service to our social engineering progressives.
I want these progressives to address the worst health crisis in this country, FAT. I want the cops on patrol every morning making sure all registered fatties are at the curb doing their calisthenics as prescribed by whatever onerous laws they get around to enacting!That would be sooooooo awesome to see all those smug american fatties that sit on their hands when things like cigarette taxes are hiked up. Worst problem in the country, lets get on it all you lefties, it'll be for the fat chillin's too! Lets get the doctors in on this too, report those fat fucks to the pastry police!!!!!!!!!
Robin

 

[dsdmmat]

Oh, the guy that killed foreign "AW" imports? I might have the chance to own a modernized version of the K2 right now if not for that bs.

That was Bush Senior on 7 July 1989. Regan closed the NFA register for new machine guns in 1986, he also supported an AWB but that was after he left office.

 

[GuyMontag]

That was Bush Senior on 7 July 1989. Regan closed the NFA register for new machine guns in 1986, he also supported an AWB but that was after he left office.

Let's not forget Reagan's despicable actions while Governor of California, and the NRA's role in WRITING the The GCA of 1968

 

[dsdmmat]

Let's not forget Reagan's despicable actions while Governor of California, and the NRA's role in WRITING the The GCA of 1968

And they had a hand in writing the 94 AWB

 

[dwa12479]

Well one thing is for sure, the revelations that the FBI dropped the ball dozens of times and the police failure to engage the active shooter is putting a damper on the libs talking point that you don’t need a gun because the police will protect you.

Truer words never were spoken. Now the question is... will heads roll other than the Coward of Broward? Or will he be the only sacrificial lamb, and we'll get on to talking about more laws...

 

[Curmudgeon]

Let’s back up. I asked of those who want to legalize all drugs what thought process has gone into any possible results. I mentioned other things besides crime.

Are you saying that basically that’s not your concern?

Yup. There's already laws against most of the drug-related crimes already.

 

[Airborneguy]

Not laws. Spending, crime prevention plans, changes in tactics, etc.

 

[Darth]

This has literally happened with legal marijuana. I’ve seen forms of heroin and other opiods as well. For awhile, “strips” were very popular. Basically a disolving strip you put in your mouth like those listerine things.

Dabs.


And "we" don't deal with them. If the crime rate were to increase, which all evidence suggests it will not, we will deal with those crimes. How? The same way we deal with those crimes right now?

 

[Airborneguy]

Suboxone was the one I was thinking of. Couldn’t remember before.

I’m too consumed lately with how to convince my stepfather to help me swap a WRX engine into my Baja next year.

 

[GuyMontag]

I’m too consumed lately with how to convince my stepfather to help me swap a WRX engine into my Baja next year.

Turbo Herm!!

 

[Marine Cpl]

Dabs.


And "we" don't deal with them. If the crime rate were to increase, which all evidence suggests it will not, we will deal with those crimes. How? The same way we deal with those crimes right now?

Yep. A war on drugs because of the crimes that may happen because of the drugs is the same as a war on guns because of the crime that may happen with the guns.

As you said, we will deal with residual crimes as they happen with the laws already on the books.

 

[Airborneguy]

I’m not saying change isn’t needed. I’m referring to legalization. Laws don’t have to stay the way they are, but legalization is absurd.

We don’t put people in jail for most drug crimes anymore, that is a myth caused by the old laws (at least in NY).

Separate the extremes. I’m not advocating for a “War on Drugs.” I’m advocating against legalization.

 

[Darth]

I’m not saying change isn’t needed. I’m referring to legalization. Laws don’t have to stay the way they are, but legalization is absurd.

We don’t put people in jail for most drug crimes anymore, that is a myth caused by the old laws (at least in NY).

Separate the extremes. I’m not advocating for a “War on Drugs.” I’m advocating against legalization.

Why?

 

[Airborneguy]

These conversations are so deep. Lots of bright minds here.

 

[Marine Cpl]

So essentially drugs are already legal right Airborne? Since people aren't put in jail for most drug crimes. Have the robberies spiked due to this new legality or non enforcement?

 

[Airborneguy]

Not where I work, but they aren’t actually legal so useage is still limited to those who are willing to acquire them via black market means, a mental barrier that stops many people. We know this because when opiod pills were being dealt willy nilly by doctors, thereby legitimizing their use, demographics that otherwise would not normally become addicts, did. The stigma was gone.

Now someone post some substance because I’m getting bored with the typical way these conversations go. I enjoy real debate, not so much these discussions. They become adversarial too quickly due to a lack of intellectual substance. A little meat deters either side from becoming childish due to the requirement that one must craft an adequate retort.