“it's a huge shit sandwich and we're all gonna have to take a bite.”
US and Iran conflict thread. ( merged threads)
- Thread starter TEOTWAWKI inc.
- Start date
spat
.950 JDJ
Obama's purge of the military was legendary.
No way.
You're telling me that when you bomb someone they don't let you use their shipping lanes, and that countries that don't bomb them can use the shipping lanes?
I'll take nope for.. 1 trillion, because it's going to cost at least that.
spat
.950 JDJ
"Their shipping lanes".
It's international waters. What makes that their shipping lanes ?
stokes
.338 Win Mag
Looks fake to me. At least that secondary explosion that makes the huge mushroom looks faked. Look at the first one, there is a lengthy pause between the initial blast and the one that caused the cloud. The second one the 2 explosions are much closer together and it looks like the mushroom is the same as the first, like it was edited into the vid both times from the same source.
spat
.950 JDJ
Looks fake. The mushroom clouds are moving way too fast for that scale. The fluid dynamics is all off.
Plus, the explosion was way too small to cause a cloud that big.
If you are using international waters, the Territorial Sea is 12 nautical miles from land border. Lots of the straight isn't even that wide., so.....
If you aren't using internationally recognized rules, then simply the power to control them makes them their waters. It's really as simple as that. It was against the "rules" for the American revolutionaries to target British field officers. They did it anyways because they could and it was effective. Same here. Iran will keep the strait shut and potentially mine it because they can and it's effective. The waters are theirs as nobody else has either been able or had the will to wrestle control over them from Iran.
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spat
.950 JDJ
The straight of hormuz is recognized international waters, and has been for a long time.
It is a specific exception to the normal 12 miles rule.
And even if it wasn't, the more general rules would put the border between Iranian territory and Oman at exactly the half way point.
So ships could still sail through without touching Iranian waters.
If you go by the "who has the power" rules, then we can basically just claim 70% of the planet as ours.
There is no interpretation where Iran controls the whole passage.
Well, I guess that's why boats are moving through freely.
Same way the US "can't" blow up Venezuelan drug boats. We did it, nobody stopped us, so.....
Well, with the Strait of Hormuz Iran is controlling it. They're doing it, nobody has stopped them, so.....
The world can get together and say "this is the rule", but it doesn't matter. The rules are set by those with the power and chutzpah to enforce their will. That's all it boils down to.
I'm not saying I like Iran, just that that control of any region of land/water is dictated by the ability AND willingness to project power to control it.
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C3D
.338 Win Mag
The shipping lanes are considered to be transit passage under UNCLOS. The strait falls between Oman and Iran at its narrowest point, but the channels in the middle are considered to be free for all international vessels to transit without interference. And yes whoever can fuck with them de facto controls them, notwithstanding UNCLOS.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
DUDE!, Iran controls it by force. Not by law. They have land based anti ship missiles and Mines and drones, Artillery .
spat
.950 JDJ
So, if anyone who can shut down the straight controls it, then obviously we control it. Along with every other significant naval passage anywhere in the world.
Because Iran might be able to make that passage more risky than the ship owners want to chance, we sure as hell could eliminate anything bigger than a rowboat trying to get through there too.
OfC, they would have to settle for sinking the ships. We could seize them and redirect the oil where we want.
We could *easily* impose "sanctions" on anyone paying Iranian ransom and seize vessels on that pretext.
So, who controls it then ?
spat
.950 JDJ
So, then we control it too. Nobody sails through there without our permission either.
You have to pick one standard and stick with it.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Who's ships is the US going to stop? Where do you come up with this shit? If we controlled it, then we wouldn't have to open the straight up to begin with . If we controlled it then Our ships could move through freely.
For the moment, they control the straight by threat of force . Nobody passes unless they so, or until the problem is settled by diplomacy or combat .
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spat
.950 JDJ
Just because we give everyone but Iran permission doesn't mean they don't need permission.
We could obviously stop any ship we wanted to. The fact that we choose not to doesn't change that
My question is why have we not knocked out every thing. We will end
Up rebuilding like we always do. Run sorties, drones, both air and water; there is no reason we don't have full control of everything by now. We have had Iran under observation for 60 yrs ; so too have the Jews.
Why haven't we dropped weapons to the population to rise up?
Once again I fear " good intentions " have been side tracked by the powers that we never get to vote for (the unelected end of government that stays no matter who is elected)/ for ever war.
Do I have to do it all myself as per the usual to get the results expected?
When no one is court martialed, hung, jailed, you get the it didn't work because (my people needed it not to work) xyz bla bla.
Just like how politically nothing gets done except crazy doctrine to split and keep we the people off balance; go pay your taxes, pleb.
Up rebuilding like we always do. Run sorties, drones, both air and water; there is no reason we don't have full control of everything by now. We have had Iran under observation for 60 yrs ; so too have the Jews.
Why haven't we dropped weapons to the population to rise up?
Once again I fear " good intentions " have been side tracked by the powers that we never get to vote for (the unelected end of government that stays no matter who is elected)/ for ever war.
Do I have to do it all myself as per the usual to get the results expected?
When no one is court martialed, hung, jailed, you get the it didn't work because (my people needed it not to work) xyz bla bla.
Just like how politically nothing gets done except crazy doctrine to split and keep we the people off balance; go pay your taxes, pleb.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Well of course that is true, however We can give permission to pass but Iran has the final say . Iran has allowed several nations to pass through, but the US has no valid reason to stop ships (although they could if they wanted to ) If We allow British tankers to pass through, Iran will light em up .
JunkBoxFull
.308 Win
Those military contracts go....brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Secret plane rides go to secret places and islands, lots of party`s an all.
Yeppp..... shut the hell up and pay your taxes, pleb!
Beerman
6.5 Creedmoor
There were TWO aircraft shot down that day. F-15 and A-10 shot down. It’s already out of hand. Has been.
spat
.950 JDJ
What makes Iran's say more final than ours ?
If we decide not to allow any ships through that negotiate passage with Iran, then none get through.
Are you seriously suggesting that we're just too nice to actually be in control ?
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
C'mon man! We could open the straits for safe passage overnight.
Robin
Robin