USA shipping containers companies shipping empty containers back to China hurting USA farmers

[Saltwater60]

This sounds like a shit show honestly. This could be really bad and cause buyers to go elsewhere leaving us holding the bag.

Shipping carriers rejected tons of U.S. agricultural exports, opting to send empty containers to China

Shipping carriers rejected U.S. agricultural exports in October and November, instead sending containers to be filled with more profitable Chinese exports.

www.cnbc.com

 

[libertysnake]

This sounds like a shit show honestly. This could be really bad and cause buyers to go elsewhere leaving us holding the bag.

Shipping carriers rejected tons of U.S. agricultural exports, opting to send empty containers to China

Shipping carriers rejected U.S. agricultural exports in October and November, instead sending containers to be filled with more profitable Chinese exports.

www.cnbc.com

China is more profitable due to manipulation on their part. China is dictatorship. Dictatorships don't play by the rules, so we shouldn't play by the rules with them.

We should continue the tariffs at the very least, and keep a percentage of manufacturing across all industries in the USA for security purposes.

 

[Robin]

Joes' on top of it, he'll fix every thing. Effing dolt.
Robin

 

[Deplorable Me]

Joe says buy American.

 

[Saltwater60]

China is more profitable due to manipulation on their part. China is dictatorship. Dictatorships don't play by the rules, so we shouldn't play by the rules with them.

We should continue the tariffs at the very least, and keep a percentage of manufacturing across all industries in the USA for security purposes.

Correct. They are ahead of us because labor is so much cheaper and they could care less about the environment and just pollute like crazy.
This is why Donald Trump was way better for president than Biden is at this. Biden will give China the leg II they need.

 

[Jezman]

We have been doing this for at least 20 years now. Nothing new just the American Corperate way.

 

[Saltwater60]

This is great.

China is rehearsing for when it overtakes America | CNN Business

China wants to lead the global recovery from the pandemic and become more influential on the world stage than ever before. It might just have the momentum — and the confidence — to pull that plan off.

amp.cnn.com

 

[Different Drummer]

We have been doing this for at least 20 years now. Nothing new just the American Corperate way.

Yes, but it is also the American consumer way. If we would stop buying the Chinese products or at the very least make a concerted effort to cut way back we would be doing the "right" thing.
The world thanks you for infecting us all, thank you CHY-NAH.

 

[Jezman]

Yes, but it is also the American consumer way. If we would stop buying the Chinese products or at the very least make a concerted effort to cut way back we would be doing the "right" thing.
The world thanks you for infecting us all, thank you CHY-NAH.

Sorry I am tired of that BS Lie its all our fault crap. The people who own the businesses shipped there junk to China to be made. Don't believe me why are cars ans trucks made in Canadian and Mexico? The greedy owners wanted cheap labor. And we are paying for it. Please look into it we did not demand cheap shit they demended larger profits and got it. Stop believing the lie!!!!! Corporate America sold us out!

 

[Different Drummer]

Sorry I am tired of that BS Lie its all our fault crap. The people who own the businesses shipped there junk to China to be made. Don't believe me why are cars ans trucks made in Canadian and Mexico? The greedy owners wanted cheap labor. And we are paying for it. Please look into it we did not demand cheap shit they demended larger profits and got it. Stop believing the lie!!!!! Corporate America sold us out!

And you keep right on buying the "made in China" products allowing the greedy businesses to continue reaping large profits.
I will save you some typing before you point out that it is impossible to NOT purchase merchandise made in China either as a completed product or as a component of that product.
Yes it is virtually impossible. However, no effort equals no gain. Is it difficult? Of course it is. Are there sacrifices required? Of course there are.
Three weeks ago I ordered a cover for a relatively new pickup. Next day I thought, OH SHIT! I forgot to ask where it was made. Called the place I ordered from. Sure enough, Made in China. Order cancelled immediately. And by the way, I made it known to them why I was cancelling the order. Now on the other hand I had a wheel off my truck this last Fall to clean brake dust off the inside of the wheel. Shit! There it was, "Made in China" on the wheel. Not much I can do about that if I want to use my truck. But if I ever buy after market wheels you can bet they will not be made in China.
To each their own. Every individual will do what they please. Yes, manufacturers are perhaps greedy. I have no argument on that. But we as consumers share some of the guilt and are enablers when we purchase their products.
Not much different than politicians and politics. If someone thinks the Pelosi's, Schumer's et al are whacko, anti constitutional power hungry ass holes, how about the people who vote them into office? Therein lies the bigger problem for our Republic.
I will avoid the best I can buying anything made in China. Both as a move against China and as a move against the corporations that have moved operations there. Just my choice.

 

[SonOfSun]

Why exactly do shipping companies owe it to farmers to hold those containers back when they could be used more profitably elsewhere?

Maybe the farmers could offer higher rates making it more profitable.

 

[Saltwater60]

Why exactly do shipping companies owe it to farmers to hold those containers back when they could be used more profitably elsewhere?

Maybe the farmers could offer higher rates making it more profitable.

While I understand where you are coming from but it’s not the farmers paying for the containers and the containers are going back empty. Why return empty containers? Seems stupid to me.
This could be detrimental to the USA farmers. Seems there is some agreement not sure what that is. Most commodities are open market commodities and paying extra would make it not worth it. The USA government screws around too much with farming. This could make the prices of everything rise. Mostly likely this is wheat or soy beans and goes into finished products.

 

[SonOfSun]

While I understand where you are coming from but it’s not the farmers paying for the containers and the containers are going back empty. Why return empty containers? Seems stupid to me.

Time, Time is money. How long will it take to hold back, fill, and then ship-load these containers with the farmers goods? That's time those containers could be on the boat back to make them more money. The shipping companies don't owe farmers jack. I'm confident they did the math and determined it was more profitable to ship back empty containers than load them with those agri. goods. if holding them for the agri. goods made financial sense, they would have done that.

This could be detrimental to the USA farmers.

So what? Compete or die. Other businesses don't owe farmers anything just because they are from the USA.

Seems there is some agreement not sure what that is. Most commodities are open market commodities and paying extra would make it not worth it. The USA government screws around too much with farming. This could make the prices of everything rise. Mostly likely this is wheat or soy beans and goes into finished products.

Then if it's not worth it then they go out of business, that's the breaks. It's not up to the govt. to make sure businesses stay viable, that's on each business. We aren't still mass producing buggies anymore because we have cars, sucks if you make buggies, but that's just the way it goes.

 

[Jezman]

And you keep right on buying the "made in China" products allowing the greedy businesses to continue reaping large profits.
I will save you some typing before you point out that it is impossible to NOT purchase merchandise made in China either as a completed product or as a component of that product.
Yes it is virtually impossible. However, no effort equals no gain. Is it difficult? Of course it is. Are there sacrifices required? Of course there are.
Three weeks ago I ordered a cover for a relatively new pickup. Next day I thought, OH SHIT! I forgot to ask where it was made. Called the place I ordered from. Sure enough, Made in China. Order cancelled immediately. And by the way, I made it known to them why I was cancelling the order. Now on the other hand I had a wheel off my truck this last Fall to clean brake dust off the inside of the wheel. Shit! There it was, "Made in China" on the wheel. Not much I can do about that if I want to use my truck. But if I ever buy after market wheels you can bet they will not be made in China.
To each their own. Every individual will do what they please. Yes, manufacturers are perhaps greedy. I have no argument on that. But we as consumers share some of the guilt and are enablers when we purchase their products.
Not much different than politicians and politics. If someone thinks the Pelosi's, Schumer's et al are whacko, anti constitutional power hungry ass holes, how about the people who vote them into office? Therein lies the bigger problem for our Republic.
I will avoid the best I can buying anything made in China. Both as a move against China and as a move against the corporations that have moved operations there. Just my choice.

If everything you can purchase is made in Chy-na, then how is it the fault of the US people as we were forced with no other options?

 

[Saltwater60]

Time, Time is money. How long will it take to hold back, fill, and then ship-load these containers with the farmers goods? That's time those containers could be on the boat back to make them more money. The shipping companies don't owe farmers jack. I'm confident they did the math and determined it was more profitable to ship back empty containers than load them with those agri. goods. if holding them for the agri. goods made financial sense, they would have done that.


So what? Compete or die. Other businesses don't owe farmers anything just because they are from the USA.


Then if it's not worth it then they go out of business, that's the breaks. It's not up to the govt. to make sure businesses stay viable, that's on each business. We aren't still mass producing buggies anymore because we have cars, sucks if you make buggies, but that's just the way it goes.

You likely won’t be saying all that if this gets bad enough. That’s fine you can be big man on campus now and say so what, tough breaks, compete or die.
What happens if this gets bad enough and enough farmers go out of business that we need to depend on other countries for our food? Say China for example? They are bad and want to be superior right? We can at least agree on that? Say they do this for 10 years or so and dwindle our farmers down. They can because everything is government controlled over there so can lose $ in one area while gaining in another unlike our farmers here. Say then China just cuts the supply of food off to the USA and creates mass hysteria and famine. Still say so what fuck you farmer feast or famine? If you can’t handle it oh well? Don’t say it couldn’t happen either.

 

[spat]

If everything you can purchase is made in Chy-na, then how is it the fault of the US people as we were forced with no other options?

Because given a choice between 2 products, one made in china and one here, most people will but the chinese one if it's even just 10% cheaper.

Enough people did that, so they stopped making the stuff here.

So, it *is* the people's fault.

Don't believe me ? Then start a business and make something here.

 

[1911guy]

Yes, but it is also the American consumer way. If we would stop buying the Chinese products or at the very least make a concerted effort to cut way back we would be doing the "right" thing.
The world thanks you for infecting us all, thank you CHY-NAH.

I agree with you, BUT the consumer has little choice since stores with reasonable prices only stock China stuff. Finding something made in USA is near impossible.

 

[Jezman]

Because given a choice between 2 products, one made in china and one here, most people will but the chinese one if it's even just 10% cheaper.

Enough people did that, so they stopped making the stuff here.

So, it *is* the people's fault.

Don't believe me ? Then start a business and make something here.

Sorry you are not going to convince me American consumers are the problem. You need to check back 30 years ago. Where did all those jobs go? The whole world when I was a kid wanted a made in America sticker on there products. Because it was the best in the world. Who took the factories away? Did the entire work force just quit. Do your research I saw and know what happened. Your theory is plausible but not what happened. Just for the record I own my own Business since 2006. The supplies and materials are all American or American manufacturer made products. It cost me more and our clients don't mind paying a little extra because they are the ones who benefit. It is not impossible to buy and support American made products. You want to buy cheap go ahead. I will spend more to get a better bang for the buck. To each there own. We did not buy are way into China. The government opened up avenues to do business with them back in the 60's. Then big business got into getting bigger. They paid there way into politics regulated the shit out of manufacturers and forced many to shut there doors. With that came less jobs making people poorer. Ever see a car made in the 60's thousands of people's Doing the work. Go to an auto plant today hundreds of robots and automated machines and a couple hundred people. The greedy super wealthy made this country get poorer. Not the other way around.

 

[Jezman]

I agree with you, BUT the consumer has little choice since stores with reasonable prices only stock China stuff. Finding something made in USA is near impossible.

Who gets more for their money an American buying chinese products, Or the manufacturer paying pennies on the dollar for Chinease labor?

 

[Saltwater60]

I agree with you, BUT the consumer has little choice since stores with reasonable prices only stock China stuff. Finding something made in USA is near impossible.

Just so you all know there is a made in America store in western ny. The guy is a great guy. He owns a welding fab shop and is an FFL. I’ve met him at his main store in Elma and he was the nicest guy. I didn’t k ow he was the owner until the store clerk told me. He never brought it up. I respect that.

I will agree buying American can be a challenge and I do the best I can. It certainly doesn’t always work out that way. Clothes and electronics are the toughest things to find American made.

 

[Jezman]

Who gets more for their money an American buying chinese products, Or the manufacturer paying pennies on the dollar for Chinease labor?

Sorry this was ment for spat

 

[Jezman]

Because given a choice between 2 products, one made in china and one here, most people will but the chinese one if it's even just 10% cheaper.

Enough people did that, so they stopped making the stuff here.

So, it *is* the people's fault.

Don't believe me ? Then start a business and make something here.

Who gets more for their money an American buying chinese products, Or the manufacturer paying pennies on the dollar for Chinease labor?

 

[Different Drummer]

If everything you can purchase is made in Chy-na, then how is it the fault of the US people as we were forced with no other options?

You present a false premise. Not ALL consumer goods are made in China. Yes, a huge number are. Have I reduced my made in China purchases to zero? You know the obvious answer to that! Especially if you consider components used in a completed product. However, I have made a huge dent in what I use that has a China origin. I am getting along just fine with the large reduction I have made in purchasing goods from China. One interesting thing I have noticed is the quality of some of the items. I am not saying that all items made in the USA are of higher quality. However, there definitely is evidence that some are of higher quality. Also, I am not advocating to buy USA only. I purchase items made outside the USA, just not items made in China. i.e a very good quality and efficient oil filter I use for my truck is made in South Korea. I bought several a couple of weeks ago.
Historically I have purchased a hiking boot marketed out of the UK but entirely made in China. It was the only boot I could find that was comfortable for my wide, high arch feet. They were not of quality construction and did not hold up long. Cost about $60.00 - $70.00. I just replaced them when needed which was often. The last pair went into the garbage a couple of months ago. I paid $200.00 for a pair of Chippewa boots that do not fit as well but I am hoping will eventually work. The break in process has been slow and at times painful. So that was a sacrifice on all counts. Expense, convenience and the gamble that I can eventually wear them all day long. But that is the choice I make and it is important to me. I have a request in right now for a sizing and order form for a pair of "Nick's" Boots. I am hoping they will be the last pair I ever have to buy. The cost will be an initial Ouch! In the long game it should even out if I live long enough and it is the price I am willing to pay in order to stand by my convictions.
What I am doing not only shuns China, it also give the finger to those companies that have shipped their production to China. The same companies you blame.
OK, I'll shut up.

 

[Different Drummer]

I agree with you, BUT the consumer has little choice since stores with reasonable prices only stock China stuff. Finding something made in USA is near impossible.

I will agree that it can be difficult and at an increased cost. But not impossible. Also, I am not advocating buying products made solely in the USA. See post above.

 

[Different Drummer]

Sorry you are not going to convince me American consumers are the problem. You need to check back 30 years ago. Where did all those jobs go? The whole world when I was a kid wanted a made in America sticker on there products. Because it was the best in the world. Who took the factories away? Did the entire work force just quit. Do your research I saw and know what happened. Your theory is plausible but not what happened. Just for the record I own my own Business since 2006. The supplies and materials are all American or American manufacturer made products. It cost me more and our clients don't mind paying a little extra because they are the ones who benefit. It is not impossible to buy and support American made products. You want to buy cheap go ahead. I will spend more to get a better bang for the buck. To each there own. We did not buy are way into China. The government opened up avenues to do business with them back in the 60's. Then big business got into getting bigger. They paid there way into politics regulated the shit out of manufacturers and forced many to shut there doors. With that came less jobs making people poorer. Ever see a car made in the 60's thousands of people's Doing the work. Go to an auto plant today hundreds of robots and automated machines and a couple hundred people. The greedy super wealthy made this country get poorer. Not the other way around.

I agree with SOME of what you present. However, we do not have to simply bend over and take it with a smile. Seems like the majority in our society just simply accept it. I have said this before on his this forum, I think a part of the problem stems from evolving towards a " me & I as opposed to a we & us" society.
Not a great analogy but here goes. Testosterone feeds a prostate malignancy. Remove the feeding element and you are decreasing the viability of the malignancy. If enough people stopped buying the Chinese crap the viability of ALL the players involved would be diminished.

 

[Different Drummer]

Just so you all know there is a made in America store in western ny. The guy is a great guy. He owns a welding fab shop and is an FFL. I’ve met him at his main store in Elma and he was the nicest guy. I didn’t k ow he was the owner until the store clerk told me. He never brought it up. I respect that.

I will agree buying American can be a challenge and I do the best I can. It certainly doesn’t always work out that way. Clothes and electronics are the toughest things to find American made.

What kind of products can I buy there? I will add him to my list of places to buy.
Snoop around some for made in USA stuff, they are out there. A few months ago I found some decent T-shirts with pocket that are made in USA. One is ,"All USA Clothing". The brand of the shirt is " Bayside". They can be bought elsewhere as well. A nice thing is that they are nice shirts as well. One thing I was surprised to find out when I began to have a heightened awareness of where things I purchase are made is the Carhartt products that are made offshore.

 

[Saltwater60]

What kind of products can I buy there? I will add him to my list of places to buy.
Snoop around some for made in USA stuff, they are out there. A few months ago I found some decent T-shirts with pocket that are made in USA. One is ,"All USA Clothing". The brand of the shirt is " Bayside". They can be bought elsewhere as well. A nice thing is that they are nice shirts as well. One thing I was surprised to find out when I began to have a heightened awareness of where things I purchase are made is the Carhartt products that are made offshore.

They are kind of an all in one shop. They have everything from canned foods, Tupperware, grills, fire pits, guns, ammo and everything in between. The one off the 400 in Elma NY is the main flagship store and his welding fab shop is across the street.
Here is the link. Not sure if they ship but I’d imagine they do. Again the owner is a great guy and that means a lot to me as well.

upon looking they ship and have an Amazon store. Check out his about is page.

Made in America Store | Official Announcement

 

[spat]

Who gets more for their money an American buying chinese products, Or the manufacturer paying pennies on the dollar for Chinease labor?

Why does it matter who gets the better end of the deal ? Both parties agreed to it.

Who sells more tools, Snap On, or Harbor Freight ?

When consumers have a choice of "quality vs price" they overwhelmingly choose "cheap crap".

It's not a conspiracy, it's not greed, it *is* what the market demands.

The only solution would be protectionist tariffs, and they come with a host of their own problems.

 

[FRB]

If everything you can purchase is made in Chy-na, then how is it the fault of the US people as we were forced with no other options?

Unions have to be part of the fault, not just consumers and manufacturers.

 

[FRB]

Sorry you are not going to convince me American consumers are the problem. You need to check back 30 years ago. Where did all those jobs go? The whole world when I was a kid wanted a made in America sticker on there products. Because it was the best in the world. Who took the factories away? Did the entire work force just quit. Do your research I saw and know what happened. Your theory is plausible but not what happened. Just for the record I own my own Business since 2006. The supplies and materials are all American or American manufacturer made products. It cost me more and our clients don't mind paying a little extra because they are the ones who benefit. It is not impossible to buy and support American made products. You want to buy cheap go ahead. I will spend more to get a better bang for the buck. To each there own. We did not buy are way into China. The government opened up avenues to do business with them back in the 60's. Then big business got into getting bigger. They paid there way into politics regulated the shit out of manufacturers and forced many to shut there doors. With that came less jobs making people poorer. Ever see a car made in the 60's thousands of people's Doing the work. Go to an auto plant today hundreds of robots and automated machines and a couple hundred people. The greedy super wealthy made this country get poorer. Not the other way around.

The problem is these days made in America vs made in China DOES NOT always mean made in America is a better product.