Use of deadly force laws?

[ronstar]

Hi, so I now live in Westchester and I want to know what all the use of deadly force rules are.

I know we can shoot someone to protect our own life or the life of another, or to stop an assault, rape, kidnapping. Or to prevent an arson.

But what about shooting someone to stop a burglary? What if they try to run out of my house with my tv? Can I shoot?

The NY Penal Code is confusing, I could swear it says you can use deadly force to stop a burglary, but is that only if the burglar has a deadly weapon?

 

[ronstar]

I thought Penal Code also says we can use deadly force if we see someone commit a murder, arson, rape, or other felony and they are trying to get away?

 

[ronstar]

NYS Open Legislation | NYSenate.gov

www.nysenate.gov

 

[ronstar]

Hmmm...looks like NY law says you can only use deadly force to protect a human being, not a tv.

 

[Uninformed and Compliant]

Hi, so I now live in Westchester and I want to know what all the use of deadly force rules are.

I know we can shoot someone to protect our own life or the life of another, or to stop an assault, rape, kidnapping. Or to prevent an arson.

But what about shooting someone to stop a burglary? What if they try to run out of my house with my tv? Can I shoot?

The NY Penal Code is confusing, I could swear it says you can use deadly force to stop a burglary, but is that only if the burglar has a deadly weapon?

Burglaries don't involve contact with people.

What you are looking for is the word, "robbery". If a burglary is interrupted and the burglar flees, it remains a foiled burglary; nobody was threatened, and nobody was ever in jeopardy.

Hit youtube for some Massaad Ayoob videos. There's a few old ones ripped from a VCR that pretty much explain it. There's also a good one on StandYourGround that explains Castle Doctrine really well.

 

[GOPerfect]

Hi, so I now live in Westchester and I want to know what all the use of deadly force rules are.

I know we can shoot someone to protect our own life or the life of another, or to stop an assault, rape, kidnapping. Or to prevent an arson.

But what about shooting someone to stop a burglary? What if they try to run out of my house with my tv? Can I shoot?

The NY Penal Code is confusing, I could swear it says you can use deadly force to stop a burglary, but is that only if the burglar has a deadly weapon?

Read and study Article 35 of the Penal Code.

ALL of your answers are in there.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I'm sure a local expert will come in and teach you everything you will ever need to know.


If that doesn't happen


Check out Rochester Personal Defense LLC they regularly hold classes that go over (not legal advice) Article 35, and with the whole shutting down of things they have even been doing the classes via Zoom or whatever (iirc it's like $50)

 

[GOPerfect]

I'm sure a local expert will come in and teach you everything you will ever need to know.


If that doesn't happen
View attachment 115744

Check out Rochester Personal Defense LLC they regularly hold classes that go over (not legal advice) Article 35, and with the whole shutting down of things they have even been doing the classes via Zoom or whatever (iirc it's like $50)

Give it a bit of time....

He was instructed by the best fucking lawyer in town. Hands down, the best.

He knows more than all of us put together.

He should charge us all serious cash for a glimpse of his knowledge.

 

[Toecutter]

As stated read all of article 35 its written in black and white.
That being said you live in Westchester, democrats don't respect the laws and you live in a 95 Democrat County, I can almost gaurentee you they will do everything possible to convict If you defend yourself.

 

[Robin]

Looked for Article 35 as written and couldn't find it.
Robin

 

[REF]

Give it a bit of time....

He was instructed by the best fucking lawyer in town. Hands down, the best.

He knows more than all of us put together.

He should charge us all serious cash for a glimpse of his knowledge.

Also, do not underestimate his vast knowledge of finances as well. He’s like a sea of knowledge with no horizon in sight.

 

[Toecutter]

 

[Saltwater60]

You can not shoot some one fleeing your house if they have $42 million dollars in cash they stole from you. It can not be your garage, your backyard, or your car it must be your occupied dwelling learn the difference between burglary and robbery. Robbery IMO is that hardest to know when to defend against because IMO if they are fleeing you have no action of self defense and can not use deadly physical force. There is some question on what you can and can’t do in your home. Me what I’m doing is of some one is on first floor I call 911, tell them to leave and they can steal anything. They take one step up the first stair i shoot because that’s where my family is. Anything on the second floor is a deadly physical force situation for me because I’m threatened and so is my family.

This is how I was trained and what I stand by. It could be you, your family, or a stranger.
Burglary has to be an occupied dwelling and can not be closed when you know or believe no one is in There.

Legal Justification to the use of Deadly Force

www.defensivecarry.com

As others stated I would take a course by a good trainer. It changed my view on what I would and would not do. Pulling a gun in certain situations can be dangerous and you can be shot by the police or another Good Samaritan.

Be safe and find a course.

 

[Celt]

I cant really add anything to whats been posted but i strongly suggest you get some training on article 35, and in the use of firearms.

In any state you need to be certain when you can use DPF, but its especially true in leftist controlled states / jurisdictions.

 

[Blimey]

You can not shoot some one fleeing your house if they have $42 million dollars in cash they stole from you.

I think in Texas you can, at least at night.

In NY (and frankly in Texas as well), best not use deadly force except to protect somebody's life.

Most of this stuff is very clear cut when one is at home: if somebody breaks in all bets are off in most cases. The real risk is what to do in public; when can you defend yourself. That's when most people get into trouble legally.

 

[ronstar]

I think in Texas you can, at least at night.

In NY (and frankly in Texas as well), best not use deadly force except to protect somebody's life.

Most of this stuff is very clear cut when one is at home: if somebody breaks in all bets are off in most cases. The real risk is what to do in public; when can you defend yourself. That's when most people get into trouble legally.

what if someone breaks into your home but doesn't have a weapon?

 

[dwa12479]

what if someone breaks into your home but doesn't have a weapon?

Castle Doctrine. If you can reasonably argue that you were in fear for your life, then DPF is lawful.

If it's a confused, frail, 80 year old man who's unarmed and accidentally walked into the wrong home, you might have trouble articulating a fear for your life. If it's Chuck Norris, you might be needing a few mag dumps and an RPG to slow him down.

 

[kev74]

Something fun to consider...

If you ever have to shoot someone, chances are your life as you know it will be over. Everything you ever worked for will be used to try and keep you out of jail. You'll probability loose your job and if you're married, you'll likely wind up divorced.

And that's if you did everything right.

 

[ronstar]

3. A person in possession or control of, or licensed or privileged to be in, a dwelling or an occupied building, who reasonably believes that another person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such dwelling or building, may use deadly physical force upon such other person when he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of such burglary.

Justification; use of physical force in defense of premises and in defense of a person in the course of burglary

www.nysenate.gov

this I dont understand. First we can only use deadly force to prevent murder, assault, rape, kidnap, robbery....but according to the above we can use deadly force to stop a burglary? under what circumstances would it be ok to shoot someone to stop them from stealing your silverware?

 

[Edwardteach72]

3. A person in possession or control of, or licensed or privileged to be in, a dwelling or an occupied building, who reasonably believes that another person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such dwelling or building, may use deadly physical force upon such other person when he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of such burglary.

Justification; use of physical force in defense of premises and in defense of a person in the course of burglary

www.nysenate.gov

this I dont understand. First we can only use deadly force to prevent murder, assault, rape, kidnap, robbery....but according to the above we can use deadly force to stop a burglary? under what circumstances would it be ok to shoot someone to stop them from stealing your silverware?

At this point may I suggest instead of trying to ask hypotheticals to a gun forum. Maybe hit up a local defense attorney and see how much an hour or two of their time costs (probably cost you about $100 an hour, shouldn't need much more than that long) and then pay them for their time and knowledge and have them go over Article 35 with you

 

[FRB]

At this point may I suggest instead of trying to ask hypotheticals to a gun forum. Maybe hit up a local defense attorney and see how much an hour or two of their time costs (probably cost you about $100 an hour, shouldn't need much more than that long) and then pay them for their time and knowledge and have them go over Article 35 with you

Many a lawyer I would not trust for answers either!

 

[spat]

Hi, so I now live in Westchester and I want to know what all the use of deadly force rules are.

I know we can shoot someone to protect our own life or the life of another, or to stop an assault, rape, kidnapping. Or to prevent an arson.

But what about shooting someone to stop a burglary? What if they try to run out of my house with my tv? Can I shoot?

The NY Penal Code is confusing, I could swear it says you can use deadly force to stop a burglary, but is that only if the burglar has a deadly weapon?

The thing you have to be very careful of when reading NY law is that buried elsewhere are non intuitive definitions for words.

Sometimes the definitions used are even contradictory between different parts of the law.

For instance, a firearm in penal law only covers handguns and "assault weapons". So you're Remington 870 is *not* a firearm in NY criminal law.

But, the environmental conservation law OTOH uses a more conventional definition, so your shotgun *is* a firearm for the purposes there.

There are also a lot of things hidden in other parts of the law. You could read all of the NY penal laws and find nothing prohibiting you from driving around with your loaded shotgun under the seat of your truck.

Because that prohibition in the environmental conservation law too.

And the penal law says that shotgun is loaded if you have an unopened box of shells in the glove compartment, they don't even need to be touching the shotgun, let alone in a chamber or magazine.

For the above comments, the NYS definition of burglary is probably not what you think burglary is. So don't think you can use deadly force to stop a burglary only to find out the hard way that the crime you were stopping was *not* what NY calls burglary.


My best advice is don't use deadly force unless you have no alternative. At that point it doesn't reall6 matter if it was legal or not anyway. If I feel my wife's in mortal danger I sure as hell not going to tone down my response based on what NYS is going to say about it afterwards.

 

[FRB]

18 spots open: https://safeinrochester.com/course/article-35-use-of-force-laws-for-the-armed-citizen-5-13-2021/

 

[Edwardteach72]

Many a lawyer I would not trust for answers either!

Well I wouldn't use a divorce lawyer.. thats why I said defense attorneys

 

[Bob]

The question you're asking is "when can I?" That's the wrong question.

If you ask the question "When must I?" then you have your answer. And it's a question that only you can answer.

 

[IrishMick]

Avoid legal fees and buy a backhoe! If you have the land there won't be any questions. Keep a hole or two prepped outback for exigent circumstances for some secret night gardening. Follow me for more tips.

 

[ronstar]

OK, I guess the best strategy is to only use deadly force to save someone's life, stop a rape, kidnapping, assault that could be deadly, arson. I'll just stick to that.

 

[HIghlander]

Something fun to consider...

If you ever have to shoot someone, chances are your life as you know it will be over. Everything you ever worked for will be used to try and keep you out of jail. You'll probability loose your job and if you're married, you'll likely wind up divorced.

And that's if you did everything right.

That's why the laws are vague. Deterrent for your own defense.

 

[Cooolone]

Article 35, justifiable use of force is not confusing at all. It's pretty clear! The fact that your newly introduced to it makes it cloudy...

Doesn't matter what it says... As a private citizen if you ever use deadly force (heaven forbid), expect to go through a shit load of... Well... Shit!... Expect to loose your firearm, and maybe firearms, expect to be put through the system like a criminal rather than victim, expect to spend $$$$$$ on your legal defense while the assailant gets the entire state resources behind them.

There's more to using force than just using force! It's imperative and probably worthwhile to spend some $$ on training, especially use of force to make things more clear to you. Beware though, that many instructors have their own interpretations and they aren't lawyers and they certainly aren't prosecutors!

Fact is 99.99% of gun owners will never discharge their weapon in a life/death event! But it's better to have it (knowledge) and not need it, than need it and not have it!

Good Luck!

 

[spat]

OK, I guess the best strategy is to only use deadly force to save someone's life, stop a rape, kidnapping, assault that could be deadly, arson. I'll just stick to that.

Pretty much don't use deadly force unless the consequences of not using it are so dire you couldn't live with them.

The bonus of that philosophy is that it eliminates all the complications from having know the law in whatever jurisdiction you happen to be in.

I can use that guideline just as well in Texas as I can in London despite the obvious drastic differences between what their laws say on the subject.

Now, that's not to say you shouldn't study those laws. Knowing them can make a big difference in keeping you out of prison. Even if it's just to know whether to call 911 or your buddy with the backhoe afterwards.