weapons-used-in-texas-school-shooting-present-quandary-for gun grabbers

[livingston]

Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2018/05/weapons-used-in-texas-school-shooting-present-quandary-for-gun-grabbers/#ixzz5Fxf8fOXD
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Weapons Used in Texas School Shooting Present Quandary for Gun-Grabbers


USA – -(Ammoland.com)- “[E]arlier reports that the shooter used an AR-15 style rifle were wrong,” Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said in a statement about Friday’s murders at Santa Fe High School. Per the Houston Chronicle, “He said the shooter … used a shotgun and a .38 caliber revolver…”

No semi-automatic handguns or rifles were involved. No so-called “assault weapons”…

You could almost hear gun-grabber hearts breaking. And it leads to a dilemma for them, because their M.O. is to call for gun bans as a necessary step every time semi-autos are used. To be consistent, especially noting how much human carnage was accomplished without them, they must now demand something they haven’t felt politically ready to unveil: A ban on revolvers and shotguns.

You know it's what they ultimately want.

The first would return to the origins of the modern gun-grab movement.

“We're going to have to take one step at a time, and the first step is necessarily — given the political realities — going to be very modest,” Handgun Control, Inc. founder Nelson “Pete” Shields told The New Yorker in 1976. To help mask its intent, the group changed its name to the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, but its ultimate goals as articulated by Shields remain.

“[W]e'll have to start working again to strengthen that law, and then again to strengthen the next law, and maybe again and again. Right now, though, we'd be satisfied not with half a loaf but with a slice. Our ultimate goal — total control of handguns in the United States — is going to take time. . . . The first problem is to slow down the number of handguns being produced and sold in this country. The second problem is to get handguns registered. The final problem is to make possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition-except for the military, police, licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors-totally illegal.”

Chris Murphy’s “baby steps” advocacy and Nancy Pelosi’s “slippery slope” enthusiasm prove the original goal of incremental to total disarmament is still being pursued.

 

[livingston]

The Journalist's Guide to Gun Policy Scholars and Second Amendment Scholars: Calls for Gun Bans

 

[Celt]

It sucks this happened again, and i hate to say it but at least it was anything semi auto. It crushes the lefts arguments. I, sadly, feel a small sense of relief it was a shotgun and a revolver.

 

[livingston]

We will see what comes out of that Hoggs mouth in the next several weeks as to the direction this goes . What comes out of his mouth is not his ideas .. He says what his handlers tell him. A total gun ban has been mentioned occasionally. We shall see how hard this is pushed .... For certain the bomb aspect is already being ignored in many news reports .This kid tried to copy the Boston bomber used . I wish I was on the forum that I got banned from . After Newtown I argued that a shotgun with buckshot could inflict as much damage as an AR-15 at 30 feet .. .... That is all one needs to become a true killing machine That observation drew a lot of laughs from the anti-gun crowd

 

[livingston]

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Let's see how many of them have the courage to say what they actually mean and want.

I want to hear them start telling everyone that ALL guns in the hands of citizens need to be turned in. That's what they want and I want to hear them shouting it 24/7 on tv.

 

[livingston]

Not a weapon of war in other words ... Unlike sandy hook we had survivors ...

 

[ArmedCorgi]

I'm pretty sure a couple of those are Glocks.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

I'm pretty sure a couple of those are Glocks.

The metal looking one is an AK

 

[Twogunwilly]

If only murder was illegal this crap would stop.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Those who dance in the blood of the dead have always been deaf.

 

[Saltwater60]

This fits the narrative too. The plan is to ban assault riffles then say it’s not enough. AW only killed 300-400 people let’s ban all pistols and we can only have shotguns and bolt riffles.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Has the operating action been identified on the shotgun? Model, pump, semi, tube capacity?

 

[S&W Fan]

You forgot one

 

[freddy]

Has the operating action been identified on the shotgun? Model, pump, semi, tube capacity?

870 Rem.

 

[Deplorable Me]

870 Rem.

Well, well, Mark Kelly claimed it was a semi......

 

[freddy]

From the New Yorker....

About the only atypical aspect of the shooting was that Pagourtzis reportedly used a Remington Model 870 shotgun and a .38-calibre revolver, rather than a semi-automatic rifle, to kill his ten victims and wound ten others. This was probably because his father didn’t own an AR-15 or any other weapon of war. (Pagourtzis told police he used his father’s guns. It wasn’t immediately clear whether his father knew that they were in his possession.) Enthusiasts of semi-automatic weapons will presumably use this detail to fortify their case against banning such weapons—the argument being that there are firearms of all kinds (more than three hundred million in private hands across the U.S., according to some estimates) and banning one particular type of gun won’t prevent a dedicated shooter from carrying out a massacre.

In the world of Second Amendment devotees, this qualifies as a legitimate case to make. So does the argument, which Donald Trump and the N.R.A. have made, that the real issue with school shootings isn’t the fact that disturbed adolescents have such ready access to deadly weapons but that schools don’t have enough armed teachers to stop gun-wielding intruders, or enough ready escape routes for students and staff to take as they flee the gunfire. “We have to look at the design of our schools moving forward and retrofitting schools that are already built,” Dan Patrick, the Republican lieutenant governor of Texas, said on Friday. “And what I mean by that is there are too many entrances and too many exits to our over eight thousand campuses in Texas . . . Had there been one single entrance, possibly, for every student, maybe he”—Pagourtzis—“would have been stopped.”

Rather than descending further into the world of deliberate denial, it is perhaps worth stating a few facts: this was the second school massacre in three months, and the second gun massacre in six months in Texas. Last November, Devin Patrick Kelly, a twenty-six-year-old Air Force veteran with a record of domestic abuse and mental issues, shot dead twenty-six worshippers at the First Baptist Church, in Sutherland Springs, near San Antonio. (Kelly used a semi-automatic weapon.) Since then, and not counting what happened on Friday, there have been at least three other shootings in Texas in which five or more people were killed. The United States has eight times more gun deaths, relative to its population, than Canada, twenty-seven times more than Denmark, and is almost on a par with Iraq.

....​

 

[freddy]

From USA Today....

The attack at a Texas high school Friday echoed the all-too-familiar horrors Americans are accustomed to seeing on the news. But two details set it apart from the list of other recent deadly attacks: explosives and weapons used.

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott in Texas says the gunman, Dimitrios Pagourtzis, who was a student at Santa Fe High School, used two firearms: a shotgun and .38 caliber revolver, both of which he got from his father. Ten were left dead, mostly students.

The guns may have slowed down the gunman’s deadly rampage because they have a slower firing rate than firearms used in other recent mass shootings, such as the AR-15. Abbott said it was unclear whether Pagourtzis' father knew that the weapons were missing.

High-powered rifles such as the AR-15 can be fired more than twice as fast as most handguns. The standard magazine for an AR-15 holds 30 rounds, allowing a shooter to continue firing uninterrupted for longer, making the weapon more lethal than other firearms, though clearly the use of any gun can be deadly, especially a shotgun at close range...​

 

[livingston]

Okay, Now I Actually Do Want To Take Your Guns
ey there, NRA:

Listen, I know the moments after a gunman opens fire in a school are hectic for you. You have to get your talking points together, you have to mentally prepare to debate a traumatized yet sensible child, you have to look at yourself in the mirror and practice saying that more guns would have made the situation less deadly. It’s a busy time! And since we are always either in the moments after or the moments before a mass shooting, you’re pretty much always busy, I have noticed!



Anyway, I just wanted to drop you a line and let you know that I now actually do want to take your guns.

All of your guns.

Right now.

It wasn’t always this way. I have responsible gun owners in my family. I’ve never been a fan of shooting at things myself, but guns sure do seem to have brought joy into the lives of some people I love, and as long as they were stored properly, I never had a problem with them being around. I believed that we should place a hurdle or two between a psychopath and an AR-15, but that’s about as ardent as I got. Live and let live, that was my policy. Even with death machines.

That has all changed. And you changed it.

All along, as American life has gotten deadlier, as our kids have gotten less safe in their schools, you have had the opportunity to work with the vast majority of Americans who support the sensible reform of our gun laws. You have had the chance to preserve your own rights as we work together to keep our gun regulations in step with gun technology. You haven’t.
More at ...
Dear NRA, It's Time to Take Away Everyone's Gun

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Without starting another N / PRO NRA shit storm here, the NRA lobbies the government at the behest of its members and their wishes to have a voice in Washington, or try to. They are funded by the very people who simply want to retain their "rights". Compare them to lobbyists who influence law for big business (oil, gas, electricity, coal, auto makers, lawyers, etc.) whose influence on the government makes them MONEY, which is what they want. The NRA isn't trying to make billions of dollars in profits, they are simply being a voice for the will of a portion of, and an important one, the public.

 

[Steal2B]

Okay, Now I Actually Do Want To Take Your Guns
ey there, NRA:

Listen, I know the moments after a gunman opens fire in a school are hectic for you. You have to get your talking points together, you have to mentally prepare to debate a traumatized yet sensible child, you have to look at yourself in the mirror and practice saying that more guns would have made the situation less deadly. It’s a busy time! And since we are always either in the moments after or the moments before a mass shooting, you’re pretty much always busy, I have noticed!



Anyway, I just wanted to drop you a line and let you know that I now actually do want to take your guns.

All of your guns.

Right now.

It wasn’t always this way. I have responsible gun owners in my family. I’ve never been a fan of shooting at things myself, but guns sure do seem to have brought joy into the lives of some people I love, and as long as they were stored properly, I never had a problem with them being around. I believed that we should place a hurdle or two between a psychopath and an AR-15, but that’s about as ardent as I got. Live and let live, that was my policy. Even with death machines.

That has all changed. And you changed it.

All along, as American life has gotten deadlier, as our kids have gotten less safe in their schools, you have had the opportunity to work with the vast majority of Americans who support the sensible reform of our gun laws. You have had the chance to preserve your own rights as we work together to keep our gun regulations in step with gun technology. You haven’t.
More at ...
Dear NRA, It's Time to Take Away Everyone's Gun

David Holmes,
A 2 bit failed snowflake actor and part time LGBT activist is neither the spokesperson for the Republic nor more unenlightened than its fore-fathers. His 15 minutes of fame was being 2nd place in an old MTV VJ contest.

D Holmes and its snowflake ilk have been long undermining the 2A and, at the beckoning of his social progressive puppet masters, has sabotaged any effective corrective actions to protect children in schools or homes.

Get out of our way and speak for yourself. FUDH

 

[GOPerfect]

After each type of shooting like this, I ask the same question, when are the elected elite going to actually do something that will keep the children of this country safe? When will school official's actually step up and do something real?

When are these assholes going to do something meaningful?

Yeah, I have solutions. Solutions that will work. May not make people happy, but they are real solutions to this very real problem.

 

[BDinPutnam]

To me "the real issue with school shootings" is that they happen for a reason, which we don't fully understand but has nothing to do with the implements involved, though there is some anecdotal evidence to support the idea that a lot of them have been influenced by Columbine. My thought is a lot of this is societal, across the board.

@GOPerfect your post reminds me of what I often think- when it comes to security, why are schools seemingly less important than government offices and courts?

 

[GOPerfect]

To me "the real issue with school shootings" is that they happen for a reason, which we don't fully understand but has nothing to do with the implements involved, though there is some anecdotal evidence to support the idea that a lot of them have been influenced by Columbine. My thought is a lot of this is societal, across the board.

@GOPerfect your post reminds me of what I often think- when it comes to security, why are schools seemingly less important than government offices and courts?

Also, why are students a protected class of people. Most of these shooters have some seriously troubled past, but it is overlooked until it is too damn late.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Without starting another N / PRO NRA shit storm here, the NRA lobbies the government at the behest of its members and their wishes to have a voice in Washington, or try to. They are funded by the very people who simply want to retain their "rights". Compare them to lobbyists who influence law for big business (oil, gas, electricity, coal, auto makers, lawyers, etc.) whose influence on the government makes them MONEY, which is what they want. The NRA isn't trying to make billions of dollars in profits, they are simply being a voice for the will of a portion of, and an important one, the public.

What are you talking about? The NRA is 100% only in it to make money at this point

 

[Catskillkid]

You see, I think this fits into the Left's narrative nicely. They are going to use the argument that all guns kill therefore all guns should be banned. Look at the images of crying children and the blood in the hallways you monsters! How could you hold your precious gun above that of a grieving mother or father? This is all part of the plan which is complete and total disarmament of the population.

@GOPerfect I'm curious to know what you think the solutions are.

 

[GOPerfect]

You see, I think this fits into the Left's narrative nicely. They are going to use the argument that all guns kill therefore all guns should be banned. Look at the images of crying children and the blood in the hallways you monsters! How could you hold your precious gun above that of a grieving mother or father? This is all part of the plan which is complete and total disarmament of the population.

@GOPerfect I'm curious to know what you think the solutions are.

When I get to my computer, I will give a full account of my ideas on this subject.

 

[BuffNiag]

You see, I think this fits into the Left's narrative nicely. They are going to use the argument that all guns kill therefore all guns should be banned. Look at the images of crying children and the blood in the hallways you monsters! How could you hold your precious gun above that of a grieving mother or father? This is all part of the plan which is complete and total disarmament of the population.

@GOPerfect I'm curious to know what you think the solutions are.

Anyone who takes that stand is going to completely alienate themself. Rod Watson wrote about this last week. I disagree with pretty much everything else he writes about except 2nd Amendment rights.

Rod Watson: Bill to ban high school rifle teams just makes NRA’s case

 

[Phauxtoe]

WRONG!
its Simple to them...
BAN THEM ALL!

that will be the direction they take, Unsafe at any speed!

 

[GOPerfect]

First and foremost, we all need to understand that the guns are not the issue and never have been the issue.

Most of us on this forum understand this.

Up until about 20 years ago, we did not have these issues. Sure there was still violence in schools but not even close to the scale in which we are seeing it today. Guns have always been around, so if it is not the guns, what is it?

Many things contribute to this epidemic. The following is in no order whatsoever.

-----Social Media. I hate it. It is not allowed in my home. (This forum is the only type of SM). None of my sons were ever or are allowed to use sites like Facebook, Instagram and the like. I have the passwords to all devices and yes, I do look at what my son is doing on a regular basis. I hate nearly everything about sites like Facebook. Back in the day, if student aged kids had a beef with someone else, they had their beef face to face. There was no hiding behind the web. I believe that Facebook and other like outlets are pure evil; I blame parents for allowing their children to be part of it.

-----Medication also plays a very large role in the changes of attitudes in our schools. I read a report not too long ago (I'll see if I can find the link), that stated that more than ONE THIRD of all students in high school are on medications. Nearly 75% of those were mood altering meds. That, too me is absolutely insane. Doctors need to be held more accountable for the meds they are dishing out to kids in America.

-----Parents suck! Period. There are too many parents that are not involved in the lives of their children. This last shooter in Texas was making bombs in his parents home. Are you freaken serious? If the child was able to make these explosives, that tells me the parents were not involved in his day to day life. CHILDREN ARE NOT FREE TO DO WHAT THEY WANT!!

-----Schools and the people who run them are also a huge group to blame for the recent trend. They turn a blind eye ALL the time to what is happening. School administrators are afraid to do what is needed to ensure a safe school. From what I have read, nearly every school age shooter has had negative incidents in the past. Expulsion, major behavioral issues, and so on. School officials turn a blind eye on a regular basis.

-----Politicians, especially the Liberals and the Progressives. God forbid under their rules we single a person or a group of people out. God forbid we allow a child to feel that he or she is not special. Not all people are equal, life is not fair. These elected elite that keep pushing that lie are to blame as well.



So, now that I have put blame out there, what are the solutions? I will start by saying that securing our schools like the Airports is not the answer. Metal detectors, armed teachers or Police in the schools may help, but the problems will not just disappear.

We need to look at this problem from a societal problem. We need to put blame where blame is due. Yes, the shooter is the first and most important player to blame. We are responsible for our actions. But it goes deeper than that. We have to ask ourselves what has changed so much in the past twenty years or so?

We need to go back to treating children like children first and foremost. We as a Nation need to rethink how we raise our young. We need to hold them accountable at a young age for behavior. We need to ensure that we teach them that not all people are equal, not everyone is a winner. We need to punish them when they do wrong and stop worrying so much about their feelings.

We need to take a step back and look at all of the Medications that we are force feeding these kids. Yeah, that is a huge problem. I cannot believe that all these 100's of 1000's of kids have such mental health issues that we need to drug them all. Impossible to say the least. Doctors need to be held accountable for doping up all these kids. These drugs are only masking real issues.

We need to hold parents accountable for the actions of their children. I said it earlier, the Texas shooter was making bombs in the house of his parents. He took his fathers guns and murdered people. Yeah, I 'll say it, the father and possibly the mother should be charged. Parents need to really step up and pay much more attention to the goings on of their children. Remember, parents are just that, parents. They should not be their kids' friend.

I am a fan of having an Armed officer placed in schools. Maybe not every school, but I would say the majority. It would be nice to see local Police Departments spend more time in and around schools throughout the day as well. Maybe we should worry more about our schools than the guy that is driving 5 miles over the posted speed limit.

We need to harden our schools a bit more as well. Locked doors at all times. Seems simple, but there are many schools that still are not locked. Classroom doors should also be locked while class is in session.

Take all threats serious. Many of these shooters announce ahead of time their intentions. Maybe not directly, but the hints/clues are there. Talk to the parents of these children that seem on the edge.

I know there is more to say, but I gotta go stain my deck!