Should We Blindly Support the Police?

[Truebeliever]

They will be using the Police to do this work.

Watch how many Rights of the people are violated by the Police. The Police, just following the orders of their masters. Regardless if right or not.

What? The police aren’t the ones suspending licenses, or freezing cooperate accounts. In New York, that would be the courts or the DMV, not the police department.
But of course , blame the cops.
But the DMV here and I am sure Canada does too, their own enforcement agents/investigators.

 

[GOPerfect]

What? The police aren’t the ones suspending licenses, or freezing cooperate accounts. In New York, that would be the courts or the DMV, not the police department.
But of course , blame the cops.
But the DMV here and I am sure Canada does too, their own enforcement agents/investigators.

And, when the government suspends these licenses, and removes their insurance, unlawfully; who will be making the arrests and handing out summons?

My point to all of this discussion, and I will repeat, I wear a uniform and I carry a badge, I swore an Oath as did all officers...

WE the Police are losing the trust and the confidence of the people by the actions that we as a whole are taking. I watched the Police in Ottawa remove the wood that was being used to keep people warm, I saw them arresting people that were trying to help with fuel for the truckers. I watched the Police confiscate the stacks of food that was feeding the truckers and their families.

I also watched the Police stand down in cities all across the Nation when these cities were being burned down. People were being murdered. Businesses were being destroyed. In the past couple of years, the Police have lost serious touch with whom they should be standing up for.

Maybe some of the officers should look back on the Oaths that they have taken.

 

[Truebeliever]

And, when the government suspends these licenses, and removes their insurance, unlawfully; who will be making the arrests and handing out summons?

My point to all of this discussion, and I will repeat, I wear a uniform and I carry a badge, I swore an Oath as did all officers...

WE the Police are losing the trust and the confidence of the people by the actions that we as a whole are taking. I watched the Police in Ottawa remove the wood that was being used to keep people warm, I saw them arresting people that were trying to help with fuel for the truckers. I watched the Police confiscate the stacks of food that was feeding the truckers and their families.

I also watched the Police stand down in cities all across the Nation when these cities were being burned down. People were being murdered. Businesses were being destroyed. In the past couple of years, the Police have lost serious touch with whom they should be standing up for.

Maybe some of the officers should look back on the Oaths that they have taken.

The arrests and summonses come later if the police catch you driving on a suspended license or without insurance. The police have no idea why the license or insurance was suspended. But don’t worry, the liberal DAs that are causing the crime problem doesn’t prosecute for those crimes anyway

 

[GOPerfect]

The arrests and summonses come later if the police catch you driving on a suspended license or without insurance. The police have no idea why the license or insurance was suspended. But don’t worry, the liberal DAs that are causing the crime problem doesn’t prosecute for those crimes anyway

So, in the Ottawa situation, you have no clue and have not been following the news or the statements? That shows.

The elected elite have stated that they will suspend all insurances and DL of all people in the blockade, they will send in the Police to arrest them all for not having proper license and insurances.

The Police have been told to take all food stuff and all water from the people in the area. But, I guess that is okay with you, the Police are doing only what their masters are telling them to do.

No wonder the Police in the area have lost near all support.

I do not know all of their Rights, I do know that many mirror ours, I have spoken with people in Canada these past couple of weeks and they are fully afraid of the Police. But, for you, that is okay.

 

[GOPerfect]

The arrests and summonses come later if the police catch you driving on a suspended license or without insurance. The police have no idea why the license or insurance was suspended. But don’t worry, the liberal DAs that are causing the crime problem doesn’t prosecute for those crimes anyway

Speaking of the DA's is a completely different topic. They make me sick, all of them. We can start a new topic just to discuss the abuse of power in those offices as well. They are a huge reason for the uptick in crime all across the Country.

But, the Police, at least here in the US had better start taking a good look in the mirror and they better start honoring their Oath.

The Oath thing, I think is much more important to coppers outside of major cities, from much of what I have seen, cops in big cities could not care any less about the Oath they took; only words mumbled when sworn in.

 

[Truebeliever]

So, in the Ottawa situation, you have no clue and have not been following the news or the statements? That shows.

The elected elite have stated that they will suspend all insurances and DL of all people in the blockade, they will send in the Police to arrest them all for not having proper license and insurances.

The Police have been told to take all food stuff and all water from the people in the area. But, I guess that is okay with you, the Police are doing only what their masters are telling them to do.

No wonder the Police in the area have lost near all support.

I do not know all of their Rights, I do know that many mirror ours, I have spoken with people in Canada these past couple of weeks and they are fully afraid of the Police. But, for you, that is okay.

I haven’t seen the police do that yet. And they already could move in to arrest them on other charges but haven’t yet. Do you wonder why?

 

[GOPerfect]

I haven’t seen the police do that yet. And they already could move in to arrest them on other charges but haven’t yet. Do you wonder why?

They have not done it yet with the DL and insurance, because the government has not unlawfully seized them yet.

More than 750 people have been arrested thus far. Some for nothing at all. One of the reasons they have not moved in hard is because they are completely outnumbered and they know they will lose. The Police have been pushed back numerous times by the overwhelming crowds. Imagine if the Police did the right thing right now and refused to violate the peoples Rights and ignore the elected elites wishes?

 

[Truebeliever]

Speaking of the DA's is a completely different topic. They make me sick, all of them. We can start a new topic just to discuss the abuse of power in those offices as well. They are a huge reason for the uptick in crime all across the Country.

But, the Police, at least here in the US had better start taking a good look in the mirror and they better start honoring their Oath.

The Oath thing, I think is much more important to coppers outside of major cities, from much of what I have seen, cops in big cities could not care any less about the Oath they took; only words mumbled when sworn in.

Again, you have no idea what you are taking about. Rural departments have less interaction with people and a lot less volume, but are more likely to use more force and violate someone’s rights— look at civil forfeiture and moving violation quotas ad speed trap revenue streams. You have no idea what you are talking about

 

[GOPerfect]

Again, you have no idea what you are taking about. Rural departments have less interaction with people and a lot less volume, but are more likely to use more force and violate someone’s rights— look at civil forfeiture and moving violation quotas ad speed trap revenue streams. You have no idea what you are talking about

I very much have a very good idea of what I am taking about. All told, I have been in a police job for near two decades. Please do not think that only city cops have a clue.

This seems like a common statement from you on this thread, assuming that people have no idea what they are talking about. You may be surprised at how many really do have a clue.

I am going to back out of this conversation now.

My points are solid. I do all I can to follow my Oath(S) of position. I do all I can to never violate my sworn oaths, too bad not all can say the same.

 

[Truebeliever]

They have not done it yet with the DL and insurance, because the government has not unlawfully seized them yet.

More than 750 people have been arrested thus far. Some for nothing at all. One of the reasons they have not moved in hard is because they are completely outnumbered and they know they will lose. The Police have been pushed back numerous times by the overwhelming crowds. Imagine if the Police did the right thing right now and refused to violate the peoples Rights and ignore the elected elites wishes?

You support the truckers and their tactics because you agree with them. What if was BLM shutting down your roads so you couldn’t go to work. It’s one thing to refuse to transport something or to work, but to block other people who have nothing to do what they are protesting with from taking their kids to school, going to work just isn’t right. And they did do that.

Ottawa mayor says truckers have agreed to leave residential neighbourhoods

The Mayor's Office told councillors that an agreement was reached through "backchannel negotiations" for vehicles to exit residential streets in the coming days.

beta.ctvnews.ca

 

[GOPerfect]

You support the truckers and their tactics because you agree with them. What if was BLM shutting down your roads so you couldn’t go to work. It’s one thing to refuse to transport something or to work, but to block other people who have nothing to do what they are protesting with from taking their kids to school, going to work just isn’t right. And they did do that.

Ottawa mayor says truckers have agreed to leave residential neighbourhoods

The Mayor's Office told councillors that an agreement was reached through "backchannel negotiations" for vehicles to exit residential streets in the coming days.

beta.ctvnews.ca

I stated in this thread, It is not a matter of supporting one side or the other. I violated not one persons Rights when the riots came to Buffalo. I did NOT support them, but I supported the US Constitution and their Rights.

I am a light switch at work, I can turn my inner beliefs off rather quickly.

I did nothing when they blocked roads. I did nothing when they blocked the streets.

 

[Truebeliever]

I very much have a very good idea of what I am taking about. All told, I have been in a police job for near two decades. Please do not think that only city cops have a clue.

This seems like a common statement from you on this thread, assuming that people have no idea what they are talking about. You may be surprised at how many really do have a clue.

I am going to back out of this conversation now.

My points are solid. I do all I can to follow my Oath(S) of position. I do all I can to never violate my sworn oaths, too bad not all can say the same.

Your police job had experience with parade permits? Apparently not much. There are a lot of things about general police culture you have gotten wrong. And I have worked in more than one department, in more than one capacity as a LEO ( note it is a different job than a cop) in more than environment, and even worked a short time for a department as a civilian outside of the tri-state area.
This is not a dig against you. I would say the same thing to you if you were an FBI agent . It’s why we have task forces, with many departments which bring their expertise and experience to it. Not just their “ arrest powers”.

 

[Truebeliever]

I stated in this thread, It is not a matter of supporting one side or the other. I violated not one persons Rights when the riots came to Buffalo. I did NOT support them, but I supported the US Constitution and their Rights.

I am a light switch at work, I can turn my inner beliefs off rather quickly.

I did nothing when they blocked roads. I did nothing when they blocked the streets.

What was your capacity as a LEO?
Many LEOs were there but as you should know in those situations, the individual LEO is not allowed to make those choices at a demonstration. It’s a team effort. Try to do that on your own and you endanger the whole team

 

[FP1201]

So, in the Ottawa situation, you have no clue and have not been following the news or the statements? That shows.
PLEASE keep in mind how skewed the American Propaganda driven Media is and there's a good chance the Canadian isn't any better.

The elected elite have stated that they will suspend all insurances and DL of all people in the blockade, they will send in the Police to arrest them all for not having proper license and insurances. Could be, could be hollow threats: logistically it would be quite a task to identify everyone involved and those caught up and stuck in the event. Remember, it's Canada and they play by a different set of rules as opposed to the United States.

The Police have been told to take all food stuff and all water from the people in the area. But, I guess that is okay with you, the Police are doing only what their masters are telling them to do. The answer to your statement lies within: doing what their Master are telling them to do. Yea, I know "I was just following orders" but WE do not know how many Officers told their superiors to pound salt and how many did what they were order to do and likely never will.

No wonder the Police in the area have lost near all support. Do you have Poll numbers to back that or is it subjective?

I do not know all of their Rights, I do know that many mirror ours, I have spoken with people in Canada these past couple of weeks and they are fully afraid of the Police. But, for you, that is okay. There is no better source of information than the people on the ground where it's happening, but it's not the only source, or the full story; remember, the person telling you what happened is likely to slant things to support THEIR point of view/agenda/position and not the other side, perhaps Canada has Laws that Mirror ours, perhaps they're better or worse, matters not as we're not Canadians or in Canada.

I'm not dismissing your points, only reminding that things aren't always as they seem or you hear about them.

 

[GOPerfect]

I'm not dismissing your points, only reminding that things aren't always as they seem or you hear about them.

Would not take this as dismissing. I really did not even want to bring in specific incidents to this conversation. I have stated that I do not know their laws, I was trying to speak in more general terms.

As for the statement of losing support, I was talking in general terms only of the people that are in that specific area, not all of Canada. This is why in person conversation is so much better.

I really think it should have stayed completely on topic; Should We Blindly Support The Police.

In years past, the Police always had my full support. There were always those in the departments that were scum bags, and many times they were called out. Seems as time goes on, there are more and more that should not be wearing the badge.

Another member, his wife and I were having a conversation at his house yesterday, and this was brought up a bit. When I was growing up, my parents would always tell us, if you need help, find the Police. Not even close to that truth today.

Many issues that the Police are facing today is due to their actions. They are not standing up to the elected, they are not upholding their Oaths. Too many have allowed their egos to get in the way of doing their jobs.

 

[spat]

Most people and protests do follow them and often go to court to change them if they disagree including BLM. And most of groups who attempt not to follow the permit get arrested or “ moved” off.
You do not know what you are talking about on this issue.

Here is an example of one of the AZ permit

Special Events and Solicitations | General Services Division - ADOA

gsd.az.gov

Other AZ permits are needed for other areas.

I never claimed permits aren't required out here. I claimed they weren't necessary, and they aren't.

They are government micromanagement of the worst type.

 

[spat]

What? The police aren’t the ones suspending licenses, or freezing cooperate accounts. In New York, that would be the courts or the DMV, not the police department.
But of course , blame the cops.
But the DMV here and I am sure Canada does too, their own enforcement agents/investigators.

Suspending a license means nothing if the police aren't going to arrest you for driving without it.

 

[Truebeliever]

I never claimed permits aren't required out here. I claimed they weren't necessary, and they aren't.

They are government micromanagement of the worst type.

Again, just see what the permit requires. It’s not much different than reserving a campsite in a state park. Or not much more restaurant reservation if the size of the demonstration is small.
And to be denied one, and it goes to court, the government must show why it’s reasons to deny the permit. The burden of proof is on them.

 

[spat]

Again, just see what the permit requires. It’s not much different than reserving a campsite in a state park. Or not much more restaurant reservation if the size of the demonstration is small.
And to be denied one, and it goes to court, the government must show why it’s reasons to deny the permit. The burden of proof is on them.

Again, it doesn't matter how easy it is.

It's about asking permission.

It doesn't matter if it's easy, or if it's never denied.
In fact, that reinforces the idea that they're useless. Why waste the effort to require a permit that will always be granted ?

If you're going to approve all permits except for certain circumstances, then just outlaw those circumstances and don't bother with the permit.

This is kinda like marriage licenses. Free people don't need permission to live their lives. If you need to get permission, then you are a serf not a free man.

 

[Acer-m14]

Police Escalation with Protesters at Ambassador Bridge / Windsor Protest - Viva Frei Live​

1:30 mark .. .. sorry no redressing your govt from the side walk ..

if you don't know this guy .. he is a Canadian Lawyer and Dan is his brother and a lawyer too ..



omg look whos blocking the road LOL ..

 

[Truebeliever]

Suspending a license means nothing if the police aren't going to arrest you for driving without it.

Yep. And back in the day when police wouldn’t arrest people for it you would read about fatal accidents where the driver had his license suspended over a 100 times. Ad if the police caught him speeding or something, they would just give him another ticket he would never pay.

 

[Truebeliever]

Police Escalation with Protesters at Ambassador Bridge / Windsor Protest - Viva Frei Live​

1:30 mark .. .. sorry no redressing your govt from the side walk ..

if you don't know this guy .. he is a Canadian Lawyer and Dan is his brother and a lawyer too ..



omg look whos blocking the road LOL ..

Your own video shows the person is lying . You can see the person in the street in the background and suddenly getting on the sidewalk. This video is propaganda.
You can see the people move back into the street as soon as the police leave . The person on the video even asked “ can we return”.
Then the police stand in the road to keep the protesters on the sidewalk where they were allowed to remain.

Quote the person on the video “ two hours of walking the streets “ before the police did something.

One can agree with the protest without agreeing with the method of the protests .

 

[Truebeliever]

Again, it doesn't matter how easy it is.

It's about asking permission.

It doesn't matter if it's easy, or if it's never denied.
In fact, that reinforces the idea that they're useless. Why waste the effort to require a permit that will always be granted ?

If you're going to approve all permits except for certain circumstances, then just outlaw those circumstances and don't bother with the permit.

This is kinda like marriage licenses. Free people don't need permission to live their lives. If you need to get permission, then you are a serf not a free man.

It’s less about asking permission than giving a heads up that it’s going to happen. In the US, they HAVE to give the permit unless they can prove it violates the safety or the rights of others.

 

[Saltwater60]

It’s not about making the job easier, it’s making the job possible and society work. Go look at what is happening with Antifa and the failure of police because the politicians say not to do things . They have taken over in areas like Chaz and CHOP as a result. That’s what your model of allowing “unorganized “protest is. Mob rule .

So you bring up this? This has nothing to do with the permits or permission to be there since I’m sure antifa didn’t have a permit and yet they were allowed to stay there right? After all atria is just a thought and not an organization right so how could they apply for a permit.

I get what you are saying but the way things are going is this can be taken way too far and the conservative permits can and will be denied. Also then what constitutes a gathering where a permit is needed? Two guys walking down the street with progun shirts? A group of military guys at a bar with with conservative gear on.
I’m sure you’ll say we’re not there and we won’t be there and I hope you’re right, but I never thought we would be where we are as fast as we are today. The rate that they are claiming all these groups are domestic terrorists is frightening. Soon anything against the all liberal controlled government will be domestic terrorism and we’re heading there fast.
Things failed because Obama, Biden, and other liberal politicians have trashed the cops and people have said fuck the cops authority. The only reason you can and ever have been able to maintain any semblance of order is because people respect your authority. Take my town there are 17,000 residence and 27 cops. Cops are always outnumbered by huge odds and the respect for them is all that prevents the police from being overrun at every protest. The liberals are eroding that and you should fight that not fight for us needing a permit.

 

[Saltwater60]

You do need a “ permit “ or register to vote. The only question is how difficult is it to get .

No you register to vote you do not get a permit to vote. All you’re doing is verifying who you are and saying you want to vote and you’re able to. They can’t deny you unless you’re a felon and on parole or probation. Even I think that was repealed in NYS so unless you’re incarcerated you will be able to vote. Completely different.

 

[Saltwater60]

That specific number usually is in local village, town or city law.
I saw one that said any gathering in the park over 20 people needed a permit . That’s not just for protest but any gathering .
Another place doesn’t set a number but that town has narrow sidewalks so any large number would be naturally forced onto the street.
That number is usually determined by the location .

So now I need a permit for a cookout with my family and you’re supporting this? Ok I’ll stop now.

i get it I’m sure they had problems, but instead of dealing with the problems they make it difficult for everyone. So instead of arresting the trouble makers they create trouble for all. The BLM vs 1/6 rally is a great example of this. How many times have you heard we won’t prosecute the BLM rioters, but now they are tracking down everyone from 1/6. I don’t support the violence on either side, but I’m willing to bet if the BLM rioters didn’t get away with it time and time again the 1/6 rally wouldn’t have become what it is. Maybe I’m wrong on that and I’m willing to accept differing opinions, but that’s where I lean. Again I do t support what happened on 1/6.

 

[DoOver]

 

[Saltwater60]

View attachment 147179

More like no permit for the first group ok you can have the city and police station, but please give it back soon. Oh by the way can we entered to save the guys life you shot? No. Pretty please? No. Ok we will wait for a permit from the occupiers to enter and meanwhile the guy dies. Great system.
Second group oh you want a permit nope. Even though your not violent we’re shutting you down.

 

[Saltwater60]

And, when the government suspends these licenses, and removes their insurance, unlawfully; who will be making the arrests and handing out summons?

My point to all of this discussion, and I will repeat, I wear a uniform and I carry a badge, I swore an Oath as did all officers...

WE the Police are losing the trust and the confidence of the people by the actions that we as a whole are taking. I watched the Police in Ottawa remove the wood that was being used to keep people warm, I saw them arresting people that were trying to help with fuel for the truckers. I watched the Police confiscate the stacks of food that was feeding the truckers and their families.

I also watched the Police stand down in cities all across the Nation when these cities were being burned down. People were being murdered. Businesses were being destroyed. In the past couple of years, the Police have lost serious touch with whom they should be standing up for.

Maybe some of the officers should look back on the Oaths that they have taken.

Well said and thanks for saying it. I can see you get it.
My problem is the police are losing the support of people like you and I who support the police to appease people that will never support the police. As you point out later on in the thread look at the difference in reaction between the violent BLM riots and the peaceful trucker protests. Again thanks for saying this.

 

[Saltwater60]

Yep. And back in the day when police wouldn’t arrest people for it you would read about fatal accidents where the driver had his license suspended over a 100 times. Ad if the police caught him speeding or something, they would just give him another ticket he would never pay.

Like my cousin is doing today? She continues to drive. I couldn’t tell you when the last time she was eligible for a drivers license, how many DWI’s she’s gotten, or how many times she’s been arrested for driving illegally. Not to mention the times that her uncle or cousin got her off as a youngster. She didn’t learn so they said no more lock her up.