Ukraine - Russia Conflict (Original Title: Things are heating up in the Donbass)

[spat]

right, but not if NATO launches a an air war. You just changed the whole game NATO has become a target now.

Like every proxy battle we have fought over the last 70 years, we will confine the conflict to the poor country it is being fought in.

Russia will fight NATO planes over Ukraine, but not follow them into NATO territory. Just like NATO will shoot down Russian planes over Ukraine, but not follow them back over the border.

We've seen how this goes several times already.

Or did you think the MIGs in Vietnam were being
flown by Vietnamese ?

 

[holdover]

Well, they have to try and stop the planes from attacking them right?

 

[Toecutter]

Ghost of kyiv confirmed?

 

[spat]

I thought the old saying was, "You can't see the forest through the trees"?

There are variations.

But essentially he is saying "look how much these trees have changed" and being completely unaware that the forest has always been the same.

"But this oak is twice the size it used to be, and that one was struck by lightning and it's dead." The forest does not care about either.

 

[holdover]

Like every proxy battle we have fought over the last 70 years, we will confine the conflict to the poor country it is being fought in.

Russia will fight NATO planes over Ukraine, but not follow them into NATO territory. Just like NATO will shoot down Russian planes over Ukraine, but not follow them back over the border.

We've seen how this goes several times already.

Or did you think the MIGs in Vietnam were being
flown by Vietnamese ?

OMG, you can't be that naive. the Russian position will be that NATO is attacking them they will respond in kind. If they dont, they lose anyway.

they arent going to just sit there and get pounded by NATO jets, thats ridiculous, whats NATO going to do? Attack them?

 

[holdover]

There are variations.

But essentially he is saying "look how much these trees have changed" and being completely unaware that the forest has always been the same.

"But this oak is twice the size it used to be, and that one was struck by lightning and it's dead." The forest does not care about either.

no its you that cant see that the whole political system has changed. When China became communist the world changed. The world changes . it never remains the same.

Your looking at it as there have always been wars nothing changed with people and governments and thats true. Im not talking about that.

If Russia surrenders to NATO , do you think the world would be changed??

Did Japan change after WW2??

 

[spat]

OMG, you can't be that naive. the Russian position will be that NATO is attacking them they will respond in kind. If they dont, they lose anyway.

they arent going to just sit there and get pounded by NATO jets, thats ridiculous, whats NATO going to do? Attack them?

Why didn't they do that in Vietnam then ?

We shot down lots of their planes.

It's simple why they won't. They do not want a war with NATO. That was what this whole exercise was supposed to prevent.

If you are invading Ukraine to keep NATO off your doorstep, you do not want to start bombing France and Germany.


If you were Putin, and hundreds of NATO jets came into Ukraine and started decimating your troops, you have one move. That's get the troops the hell out of Ukraine and hope NATO doesn't follow them back over the border.

 

[GOPerfect]

OMG, you can't be that naive. the Russian position will be that NATO is attacking them they will respond in kind. If they dont, they lose anyway.

they arent going to just sit there and get pounded by NATO jets, thats ridiculous, whats NATO going to do? Attack them?

This is something I think many are missing. Russia has not attacked any member nations of NATO. If NATO attacks Russia, they will be the aggressor, at least in the eyes of Russia.

Russia will retaliate with a vengeance, the likes that the world has never seen before.

 

[holdover]

Why didn't they do that in Vietnam then ?

We shot down lots of their planes.

The same reason we didnt invade the North , China would launch a full scale attack. The planes were defending the North. They wernt bombing our troops on The DMZ and those Russian and Chineese pilots were not acting under the flag of thier country. (even though they were)

 

[spat]

no its you that cant see that the whole political system has changed. When China became communist the world changed. The world changes . it never remains the same.

Your looking at it as there have always been wars nothing changed with people and governments and thats true. Im not talking about that.

If Russia surrenders to NATO , do you think the world would be changed??

Did Japan change after WW2??

Things change for individual countries, but not for the world.

Technology changes the world, but not wars themselves.

The cold war changed things for a while, but it's looking like we're headed right back where we were before.

 

[holdover]

This is something I think many are missing. Russia has not attacked any member nations of NATO. If NATO attacks Russia, they will be the aggressor, at least in the eyes of Russia.

Russia will retaliate with a vengeance, the likes that the world has never seen before.

Apparently they dont think so. Its Russian Doctrine.

 

[Mosinitis]

Ghost of kyiv confirmed?View attachment 149148

Isn't this well known radical Semenchenko, recently released from jail. He is not even a pilot.

 

[GOPerfect]

Why didn't they do that in Vietnam then ?

We shot down lots of their planes.

It's simple why they won't. They do not want a war with NATO. That was what this whole exercise was supposed to prevent.

If you are invading Ukraine to keep NATO off your doorstep, you do not want to start bombing France and Germany.


If you were Putin, and hundreds of NATO jets came into Ukraine and started decimating your troops, you have one move. That's get the troops the hell out of Ukraine and hope NATO doesn't follow them back over the border.

Nope....

If hundreds of NATO planes come to the aid of The Ukraine, Russia will see that as an act of war, an aggression. He will fight back with all of his tools of war. He will not turn tail back to the Motherland.

NATO knows this. He has attacked no NATO nation, if NATO attacks, it will be an aggressive move.

 

[GOYABEAN]

Using nukes any larger than tactical is suicide.

Putin isn’t going to commit suicide over some tanks. Strategic nukes are limited to being a response to existential threats only. Unless Putin thinks we're about to topple the Russian government he's not going to use them.

Worse case he uses some tactical nukes inside of Ukraine. If he sends anything larger then his country will cease to exist. There will be more living Russians in the US than there will be in whatever's left of Russia.

He doesn't have launch tactical nukes but aren't there other nuclear reactors than Chernobyl in Ukraine a few well placed missiles would have the same affect look how many years after that accident occurred displaced thousands of people not counting the deaths to this day just my opinion I could be wrong?

 

[spat]

The same reason we didnt invade the North , China would launch a full scale attack. The planes were defending the North. They wernt bombing our troops on The DMZ

You may be thinking of the wrong war. That sounds like Korea.

In Vietnam we dropped more ordinance on the north that we did in all of WWII.

 

[holdover]

Nope....

If hundreds of NATO planes come to the aid of The Ukraine, Russia will see that as an act of war, an aggression. He will fight back with all of his tools of war. He will not turn tail back to the Motherland.

NATO knows this. He has attacked no NATO nation, if NATO attacks, it will be an aggressive move.

100%

 

[holdover]

You may be thinking of the wrong war. That sounds like Korea.

In Vietnam we dropped more ordinance on the north that we did in all of WWII.

LOL, no.

The reason the US never invaded the North In Vietnam is because they did not want a repete of N korea. China said it would invade vietnam if Us troops crossed the DMZ. Thats why we could'nt stop the supplies to the South.
the supplies were brought in from China. In order to cut those lines we would have to be near the border. which was a trip wire for China to enter just like NK

 

[spat]

Nope....

If hundreds of NATO planes come to the aid of The Ukraine, Russia will see that as an act of war, an aggression. He will fight back with all of his tools of war. He will not turn tail back to the Motherland.

NATO knows this. He has attacked no NATO nation, if NATO attacks, it will be an aggressive move.

Then he will have chosen death. It's that simple.

Would be quicker to just eat a bullet.


So, he has a choice at that point. Retreat to his borders and see if we follow, or burn the whole world to the ground.

If he's crazy enough to take the second option, then he's going to do it eventually anyway.

 

[GOPerfect]

Then he will have chosen death. It's that simple.

Would be quicker to just eat a bullet.


So, he has a choice at that point. Retreat to his borders and see if we follow, or burn the whole world to the ground.

If he's crazy enough to take the second option, then he's going to do it eventually anyway.

So, you think it is okay for NATO to launch an attack on Russia?

I am only trying to fit all the pieces together.

 

[spat]

LOL, no.

So, you don't believe we bombed North Vietnam ?

Operation Linebacker II - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[holdover]

Then he will have chosen death. It's that simple.

Would be quicker to just eat a bullet.


So, he has a choice at that point. Retreat to his borders and see if we follow, or burn the whole world to the ground.

If he's crazy enough to take the second option, then he's going to do it eventually anyway.

100%

 

[holdover]

So, you don't believe we bombed North Vietnam ?

Operation Linebacker II - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

what? No we never invaded !! you know the difference right?

 

[spat]

So, you think it is okay for NATO to launch an attack on Russia?

I am only trying to fit all the pieces together.

I think it's OK for any country or organization to send troops into any other country that requests it for any purpose they request.

If the Ukrainians say "send whatever you want and kill these Russian invading us" then I think we can send whatever we want as long as we don't cross the *Russian* border.

 

[holdover]

I think it's OK for any country or organization to send troops into any other country that requests it for any purpose they request.

If the Ukrainians say "send whatever you want and kill these Russian invading us" then I think we can send whatever we want as long as we don't cross the *Russian* border.

Weapons and aid are legal, troops are an act of war. ww1 and ww2 US sent supplies to europe,and remained ""neutral"" no problem. once they sent troops, its an act of war.

 

[spat]

what? No we never invaded !! you know the difference right?

We're talking about commiting air power to the Ukrainian conflict.

You know, shooting down Russian planes Nd bombing their tanks. Just like we did in Vietnam.

Boots on the ground is another matter entirely.

 

[GOPerfect]

I think it's OK for any country or organization to send troops into any other country that requests it for any purpose they request.

If the Ukrainians say "send whatever you want and kill these Russian invading us" then I think we can send whatever we want as long as we don't cross the *Russian* border.

Gotcha, so you are on board with NATO escalating this into a World War?

NATO has not been attacked and would be going against their own charter.

They have rules and guidelines to follow, they should just break their rules and create more of a mess?

 

[GOPerfect]

We're talking about commiting air power to the Ukrainian conflict.

You know, shooting down Russian planes Nd bombing their tanks. Just like we did in Vietnam.

Boots on the ground is another matter entirely.

That would still be an act of unprovoked war by NATO.

 

[spat]

He doesn't have launch tactical nukes but aren't there other nuclear reactors than Chernobyl in Ukraine a few well placed missiles would have the same affect look how many years after that accident occurred displaced thousands of people not counting the deaths to this day just my opinion I could be wrong?

He could blow up the reactors and make a real mess of the Ukrainian countryside, but it gives him no tactical advantage.

 

[GOPerfect]

I wish I could stay, gotta get ready for work.

Do not forget, State of The Union is tonight.

 

[Phazer]