Then let NATO deal with it. This doesn't concern us. This is one area that I will call my dem law makers and tell them to keep us out of this shit.
Russia or the Ukraine? Which side do you support?
- Thread starter GOPerfect
- Start date
Then let NATO deal with it. This doesn't concern us. This is one area that I will call my dem law makers and tell them to keep us out of this shit.
stokes
.338 Win Mag
We are NATO
livingston
20×102mm Vulcan
In for a penny in for a pound as they say. .... For the most part we are NATO ......The rest of the countries bring up the rear . Our main benefit is using their runways and resupply support. .... It will be our boys doing the fighting. I read an article once that during the Bosnian war Russia almost used an EMP during that conflict ( I believe it was that war ) ... IF we get into a conflict a cyber war and EMP strike would be on the table .
We as a nation are on the worst footing thanks to our government decisions (covid ) maybe ever. ... You really think all the container ships off our coast are not fair game ?
It will not take very long for a shit storm of massive proportion to hit us. ... We are not fighting a bunch of goat herders. .....Another point ...
IF we are crippled. Watch other actors go to war.. Iran , N Korea,China ... Not against us but states we protect.
livingston
20×102mm Vulcan
Once a NATO plane enters Ukraine airspace ... Game on folks
We are one member of NATO. All the EU countries are much closer, no need for us to get involved.
stokes
.338 Win Mag
Prior to Trump, we were pretty much the only one funding it all,and as a member of NATO we are bound by the treaty to get involved.
That is wishful thinking. It's also not how alliances like NATO work.
When the rest of the nations in the alliance pay their fair share then maybe we will put our fair share of effort into helping them. Thats how it would work if we had a leader with balls.
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spat
.950 JDJ
We are the only effective fighting force in NATO.
The rest of them put together aren't a match for what we send to one mid sized training exercise.
Now, given the way the Russians are acquitting themselves in Ukraine, maybe they are enough. But in a war you don't want to use "enough" when you can use "as much as you can spare".
There are 2 approaches we can take to this.
The Neville Chamberlain approach, or the Winston Churchill approach.
Lets just say one of those doesn't have the greatest track record.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
WW II wasn't the USA's war either, until it was.
There's no way european nations get militarily involved in this and the USA is not there in the vanguard.
Based on how poorly this is going for the russians we may not have to get involved beyond sanctions and weapons supplies. Pretty sure I read yesterday something like 13 (or was it 17) airplanes are launching from one airfield in poland (?) every day packed with weapons.
spat
.950 JDJ
That's what Neville Chamberlain said too.
My concern is how poorly it may go for us if we get involved. Lots of people are laughing at the Russians now. Just how would our woke forces fare? I just read an article about the declining rate of readiness of our air force. And more than a few of our ships have suffered collisions in the past decade. I can only think what has happened to the army.WW II wasn't the USA's war either, until it was.
There's no way european nations get militarily involved in this and the USA is not there in the vanguard.
Based on how poorly this is going for the russians we may not have to get involved beyond sanctions and weapons supplies. Pretty sure I read yesterday something like 13 (or was it 17) airplanes are launching from one airfield in poland (?) every day packed with weapons.
And? Different time and we are not on the same continent.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I think they'd kick ass.
Most of the US military does not wear dresses and lipstick. It's better trained and better equipped.
The GDP of nato nations is at least 20X that of Russia, military spending at least 10X.
Steal2B
.700 Nitro Express
Wow, talk about revisionist history.
For the 10 years in the making of various versions of Minsk agreement Russia claims have included none of it applied to Russia since it was a Civil War, that they were not a party to Minsk versions that involved Western European negotiators, no Russian Military ever stepped foot in Ukraine, Russia did not supply military aid to the ....
Putin (and Russia for that matter) by any reasonable or honest measure can claim they are the aggrieved party in their recent or previous invasions.
stokes
.338 Win Mag
"How poorly things are going for the russians" in a ground war just increases the odds that they start hurling nukes our way.They will surely see any sanctions and weapons we supply to Ukraine as an act of war, I'm pretty sure he doesnt want to face us in a conventional war.If he thinks we are going to get involved he will take desperate measures.
masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
We need to be getting more inside info on Putin. Like talking to his personal physician to see if this character was given some short term prognosis, a death sentence if you will, for a terminal disease. He may want to go down in a blaze of glory taking the rest of us with him. His actions don't seem entirely rational.
spat
.950 JDJ
And if you tell Putin and Xi that they can do anything they want and nobody will do anything about it because they have nukes, they *will* do anything they want.
How much of Europe would he need to take before it becomes "our problem" ?
We live on a very small planet with these people. This stuff always becomes "our problem" eventually. You can either deal with that now, when it's easy, or wait until it is hard or impossible.
It's like people learned nothing from the appeasement leading up to WWII.
spat
.950 JDJ
We are on the same continent we were for WWII.
If you think we can keep doing the same thing as we did before and get a different result, there is a word for that.
Tuesday.
But the person who said that was British citizen no? If yes then we never said that another country did.
spat
.950 JDJ
Yes, it was a British policy, that we followed along with and fucked the whole world for doing it.
The British were still the leaders back then, so they set the policy. We are now, so it's on us not to make the same mistakes they did then.
You can point out irrelevant details that differ all day long, but there is no meaningful way that the situations are different.
time, place and country are not irrelevant differences. They are huge differences. How about we stop going with world police. We have done that long enough and it has not gained anything for us. Talk about doing the same thing over and over again.
spat
.950 JDJ
If you think changing the setting will change the plot, you're sadly mistaken. They've remade Romeo and Juliet dozens of times in all sorts of settings, they always die in the end.
Acting as world police has gained us unprecedented world peace for 70 years.
I don't think we want to throw that away.
If NATO decides to go all in....
NATO will cease to exist soon after.
NATO will cease to exist soon after.
spat
.950 JDJ
USA and UK traded places in this one. It's the extra woke version where Romeo identifies as the woman and Juliet the man.
But guess what, they still both die in the end.
Not the same movie. They are OCEANS apart.
spat
.950 JDJ
Ok, if you think which side of the Atlantic the guy who gives the go ahead sits on will make a difference, I can't help you.
We *will* get dragged into another shooting war in Europe over this, unless Ukraine manages to hold them off all by themselves.
Ukraine is doing a spectacular job so far, but I don't want to risk WWIII on them succeeding.