Ukraine - Russia Conflict (Original Title: Things are heating up in the Donbass)

[spat]

I agree with most of this except Were talking about 2 different things .

Yes, troops on a battlefield will physically occupy some territory as a tactical necessity. They will need to secure the areas around themselves too.

But that is not the same thing as conquering a nation. In WWII we didn't occupy France, etc we liberated them. We *did* occupy Germany and Japan for a time.

Ukraine isn't objecting to the Russians "passing through", they are objecting to the attempt to steal large portions of Ukraine.

You are saying that tactically you must control certain areas to prosecute a war.

Not in a modern war you don't. The US could go anywhere they wanted in any war since Vietnam. In that sense they "occupied" the whole countries mostly from the beginning.

The Vietcong/Taliban had no Territory they controlled that the US didn't allow them to control.

Yet they still won.

Wars no longer need to have battle lines and a "front" to be a real war.

 

[tirwin1]

Not everything is going bad for the Russians:

 

[GOPerfect]

See Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Panama, Grenada, etc...

Sure we might create a base temporarily somewhere, but we did not permanently occupy territory.

There is a huge difference between creating a base that's a few square miles, and establishing martial law across 100,000 square miles.

And at no point did anyone expect us to try to annex that territory.

We have military bases all over the world, that doesn't mean we're occupying England, Germany, France, Japan, etc...

We occupied Afghanistan for 20 years. We are still in Iraq. We are still in Germany. We are still in Japan. The list goes on and on.

 

[SomeSoldier]

At least Puttin was trying to stop the election fraud.

 

[GOPerfect]

At least Puttin was trying to stop the election fraud.

At this point, I do not care what he was trying to stop or is trying to stop. He and the Russian people have my support. I hope he continues to hit them harder and harder.

 

[spat]

We occupied Afghanistan for 20 years. We are still in Iraq. We are still in Germany. We are still in Japan. The list goes on and on.

We have troops there. We are not occupying them. We are guests.

They each have their own government that runs the place and we abide by their rules or we leave.

If you occupy someplace you are in charge, you do not follow their rules, they follow yours.

If you do not see the difference between the US occupation of Japan after WWII, and our presence there now I can't help you.

 

[SomeSoldier]

At this point, I do not care what he was trying to stop or is trying to stop. He and the Russian people have my support. I hope he continues to hit them harder and harder.

I agree. I support him also. Ukraine is corrupt to the core and they need to be removed. I hope the innocent can get to safety.

 

[GOPerfect]

We have troops there. We are not occupying them. We are guests.

They each have their own government that runs the place and we abide by their rules or we leave.

If you occupy someplace you are in charge, you do not follow their rules, they follow yours.

If you do not see the difference between the US occupation of Japan after WWII, and our presence there now I can't help you.

Okay. I take it that you have never been to any of these places. Some of what you said is true, not most though.

 

[GOPerfect]

We have troops there. We are not occupying them. We are guests.

They each have their own government that runs the place and we abide by their rules or we leave.

If you occupy someplace you are in charge, you do not follow their rules, they follow yours.

If you do not see the difference between the US occupation of Japan after WWII, and our presence there now I can't help you.

Do you think if the Germans or the Japanese asked us to leave, we would?

 

[spat]

Okay. I take it that you have never been to any of these places. Some of what you said is true, not most though.

So, the people in charge today in Germany and Japan are American ?

 

[SomeSoldier]

We have troops there. We are not occupying them. We are guests.

They each have their own government that runs the place and we abide by their rules or we leave.

If you occupy someplace you are in charge, you do not follow their rules, they follow yours.

If you do not see the difference between the US occupation of Japan after WWII, and our presence there now I can't help you.

To this day we are still Japan's major defense. They are permitted to have a small military.

 

[spat]

Do you think if the Germans or the Japanese asked us to leave, we would?

Yep.

 

[GOPerfect]

Yep.

Well, you sir would be incorrect. The German government told the US military to leave in the 80"s, we stayed, in the 90's, yep, we stayed.

The Japanese has voted three times in the past to have the military leave, passed a law in regards to this, the US Military is still there.

 

[spat]

To this day we are still Japan's major defense. They are permitted to have a small military.

Yes, and their taxpayers should be grateful.

Every now and then some idiots in South Korea talk about wanting the US out. Then the people who actually know the score shut them up.

Our presence in Japan is a gift to the Japanese taxpayers from the US.

If we left, they would have to pay for their own defense.

 

[SomeSoldier]

Yes, and their taxpayers should be grateful.

Every now and then some idiots in South Korea talk about wanting the US out. Then the people who actually know the score shut them up.

Our presence in Japan is a gift to the Japanese taxpayers from the US.

If we left, they would have to pay for their own defense.

My point is, that is our policy dictating to them. They follow it. I would say if we told them to do something else they would.

 

[spat]

Well, you sir would be incorrect. The German government told the US military to leave in the 80"s, we stayed, in the 90's, yep, we stayed.

The Japanese has voted three times in the past to have the military leave, passed a law in regards to this, the US Military is still there.

I am unfamiliar with either of those requests. Do you have any more details?

 

[GOPerfect]

I am unfamiliar with either of those requests. Do you have any more details?

I will start a new thread. I will discuss how many nations want us out of their lands.

 

[spat]

My point is, that is our policy dictating to them. They follow it. I would say if we told them to do something else they would.

We wield a large economic stick. We use that all over the world, whether we have troops there or not.

I don't think any of the countries that have US bases consider them a threat.

 

[spat]

I will start a new thread. I will discuss how many nations want us out of their lands.

The nation's, or some of the people.

Certainly there are people in every country that want us gone.

Hell, there are people in the US that want the US military gone.

But that does not equate to a formal request from the government of those countries.

 

[Mosinitis]

Syrian government never invited us into their country. We don't have any claim on any of its territory. Syrian ethnic make up doesn't include Americans.They don't want us to be there and we are there occupying their territory in blatant violation of International law.

 

[SomeSoldier]

Syrian government never invited us into their country. We don't have any claim on any of its territory. Syrian ethnic make doesn't include Americans.They don't want us to be there and we are there occupying their territory in blatant violation of International law.

US Government to the world:

 

[Acer-m14]

See Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Panama, Grenada, etc...

Sure we might create a base temporarily somewhere, but we did not permanently occupy territory.

There is a huge difference between creating a base that's a few square miles, and establishing martial law across 100,000 square miles.

And at no point did anyone expect us to try to annex that territory.

We have military bases all over the world, that doesn't mean we're occupying England, Germany, France, Japan, etc...

if we actually took all that land from wars then we wouldn't need a passport to go there

 

[Grimscale]

Yes, and their taxpayers should be grateful.

Every now and then some idiots in South Korea talk about wanting the US out. Then the people who actually know the score shut them up.

Our presence in Japan is a gift to the Japanese taxpayers from the US.

If we left, they would have to pay for their own defense.

While I agree that our presence, and our defense of, their land is a boon for the taxpayers of Japan, that is NOT why we are there.
After WWII we ordered them to disband their military because we couldn't trust them. We stepped in to make sure no one else took over that might have been against our interests, but the final result is the same.

We were an occupying force. We, for all intents and purposes, annexed Japan as a colony of the United States.

That we now (or recently) decided to allow them to defend themselves is not material to the decisions made after we roasted two of their cities.

 

[tirwin1]

Good video explaining the russians' strategic situation in crimea. He walks you through a map of the area which helps explain it and simplifies it for the average person.


The cliff notes are:
Russian position in crimea is very weak strategically
Russians can't supply their own troops because the rail bridges are gone
Sooner or later the russians will have to retreat from the entire area because of the logistics situation
At some point the ukrainians will move south - if the russians don't retreat they risk being cut off
However Russia still holds the other provinces in the eastern part of ukraine
Ukraine probably cannot force them out of these territories so the war will go on indefinitely

 

[Mosinitis]

CNN reporters are banned from Kherson after accidentally broadcasting Nazi salute during Kherson celebration.

 

[Mosinitis]

As has been the case for decades, U.S. government is backing and arming EVIL DOERS around the world and selling this to American people as a fight for democracy and freedom.

 

[spat]

While I agree that our presence, and our defense of, their land is a boon for the taxpayers of Japan, that is NOT why we are there.
After WWII we ordered them to disband their military because we couldn't trust them. We stepped in to make sure no one else took over that might have been against our interests, but the final result is the same.

We were an occupying force. We, for all intents and purposes, annexed Japan as a colony of the United States.

That we now (or recently) decided to allow them to defend themselves is not material to the decisions made after we roasted two of their cities.

Oh, certainly, we were the textbook occupying force after WWII, but we haven't been for decades.

And we obviously get plenty of benefits out of the arrangement ourselves, or we wouldn't be there.

And there are obviously plenty of locals that do not want our bases on their soil, but they are a vocal minority.

I'm not sure how many places we have troops stationed without the consent of the official government, but I don't think there are many.

And we are only an occupying force if the local government is entirely subservient to the US forces anyway. If they are autonomous, then we aren't occupiers.

 

[GOPerfect]

2 Russian stray missiles have just hit a farm in Przewodów on the Polish side of the Polish-Ukrainian border, killing 2 Poles. Polish PM Morawiecki & President Duda have summoned a crisis meeting of the National Security Bureau.

 

[GOPerfect]

Poland urgently convenes the Committee of the Council of Ministers for National Security and Defense Affairs.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Sounds like 2 Russian missiles missed their targets and hit Poland.

2 polish civilians dead