Ukraine - Russia Conflict (Original Title: Things are heating up in the Donbass)

[spat]

DUDE! Its under the Russian federation now. Its not contested , because Ukraine cant even get there to contest it

both sides are claiming it as their own. Ukraine can fight for it if it wants . I understand your point, but Thats the way Russians are going to play it.

I'd have a lot more respect for the Russians if they had just come out and said they were invading because they wanted the territory.

Inventing such a ridiculous justification just beclowns them.

Imagine if NATO decided to roll into Moscow by claiming that Poland was under threat. That's actually a *lot* more believable than the claim that Ukraine was a threat to Russia.

 

[Mosinitis]

It didn't take long and was very predictable.

 

[holdover]

I'd have a lot more respect for the Russians if they had just come out and said they were invading because they wanted the territory.

Inventing such a ridiculous justification just beclowns them.

Imagine if NATO decided to roll into Moscow by claiming that Poland was under threat. That's actually a *lot* more believable than the claim that Ukraine was a threat to Russia.

You dont see the loss of the entire Baltic fleet a threat? It completely shuts them out of the Mediterranean too, then they have to contest with NATO Armys and missiles 90 miles from Moscow. An hour and a half drive. The fact that Washington sees the Black sea fleet as a threat , even though they have been there before our country was even founded . What audacity.

I dont know what else to say. Your not dealing with reality here.

 

[holdover]

Russia signed an agreement to respect the *1994* ukranian borders.

Then then proceeded to invade several parts of that.

*then* Ukraine says "well, if they're going to try absorbing us peacemeal, we better get with NATO for some help" and Russia tries to use *that* as justification to take another bite ?


Why do you suppose that historically neutral countries like Sweden and Finland suddenly expressed an interest in NATO ? Were they afraid that Russia was going to claim a boy scout jamboree too close to the border was a staging ground for an invasion and attack *them* too ?

Russia agreed to respect Ukraines borders on the contingency they dont join NATO. Thats in the agreement. I posted it somewhere.
It was Ukraine that violated the agreement .

 

[Mosinitis]

Russia signed an agreement to respect the *1994* ukranian borders.

Then then proceeded to invade several parts of that.

*then* Ukraine says "well, if they're going to try absorbing us peacemeal, we better get with NATO for some help" and Russia tries to use *that* as justification to take another bite ?


Why do you suppose that historically neutral countries like Sweden and Finland suddenly expressed an interest in NATO ? Were they afraid that Russia was going to claim a boy scout jamboree too close to the border was a staging ground for an invasion and attack *them* too ?

1994 Budapest Memorandum was also signed by the United States. In paragraphs 1 & 3 it guaranteed Ukraine its political independence. This memorandum went out the window when U.S. government staged a violent coup and overthrew democratically elected president of Ukraine, handpicking (midwifing) a new government. It was U.S. who tore it up.

https://policymemos.hks.harvard.edu/files/policymemos/files/2-23-22_ukraine-the_budapest_memo.pdf?m=1645824948

 

[spat]

Russia agreed to respect Ukraines borders on the contingency they dont join NATO. Thats in the agreement. I posted it somewhere.
It was Ukraine that violated the agreement .

Russia invaded long before Ukraine started courting NATO.

Crimea has been part of Ukraine since 1954.

Russia invaded it in 2014.

When was the suggeation that Ukraine was courting NATO first aired ?


So, Russia smoked that agreement back in 2014. If *you* were running what was left of Ukraine, what would you do then ? Sit back and wait for your turn, or try to find some allies ?

 

[spat]

1994 Budapest Memorandum was also signed by the United States. In paragraphs 1 & 3 it guaranteed Ukraine its political independence. This memorandum went out the window when U.S. government staged a violent coup and overthrew democratically elected president of Ukraine, handpicking (midwifing) a new government. It was U.S. who tore it up.

https://policymemos.hks.harvard.edu/files/policymemos/files/2-23-22_ukraine-the_budapest_memo.pdf?m=1645824948

Sure, whatever let's you sleep at night comrade.

 

[Mosinitis]

Sure, whatever let's you sleep at night comrade.

The funny thing is with all the squealing by the West about Budapest memorandum, it was very hard to find the actual text. When I Googled it few years ago, what would come up are the summaries by Western institutions which focused only on territorial aspect.. Only after reading the actual text in pdf file, one finds that political independence and sovereignty are in the same sentence as territorial integrity.
It's a relatively short document and the fact that they chose to summarize it instead of publishing actual document is very telling.
FUCKING SHYSTERS.

 

[Robin]

Sure, whatever let's you sleep at night comrade.

O'le Mosey and Holdy are the only ones with the facts of the matter, everyone else has bought into lies and innuendo and propaganda. I know this to be true because they say it over and over again, ad nauseam.
The mile high club, well, saves on helicopter fuel.

Full list of Russians to fall out of windows since Putin invaded Ukraine

A series of mysterious deaths have involved prominent Russian figures since the Ukraine war began last February.

www.newsweek.com

They even have a name for it.

Sudden Russian Death Syndrome

It’s not a great time to be an oligarch who’s unenthusiastic about Putin’s war in Ukraine.

www.theatlantic.com

Robin

 

[Robin]

 

[holdover]

Russia invaded long before Ukraine started courting NATO.

Crimea has been part of Ukraine since 1954.

Russia invaded it in 2014.

When was the suggeation that Ukraine was courting NATO first aired ?

2002.

Ukraine last week announced it would seek membership in the NATO military alliance, marking a policy shift away from neutrality on the membership issue. The head of the defense and security council who made the announcement says neutrality no longer makes sense for Ukraine. But analysts say President Leonid Kuchma's recent international isolation and the new NATO-Russia Council were also factors in the decision.


Prague, 30 May 2002 (RFE/RL) -- Ukraine, wedged between Western Europe and Russia, has a long and tragic history as a battleground. Its vast plains have for centuries provided excellent ground for cavalry sweeping in from the West and East. In the last century, they showed themselves equally inviting for tanks.

Since Ukrainian independence in 1991, NATO and the West have made it clear they see Ukraine as a key element of new security structures in Europe.

Ukraine: A Look At Kyiv's Motives For Seeking NATO Membership

Ukraine last week announced it would seek membership in the NATO military alliance, marking a policy shift away from neutrality on the membership issue. The head of the defense and security council who made the announcement says neutrality no longer makes sense for Ukraine. But analysts say...

www.rferl.org

APRIL 3, 2008 BUCHAREST (Reuters) - NATO leaders promised Ukraine and Georgia on Thursday they would one day join the Western defense alliance after rebuffing U.S. demands to put the former Soviet republics on an immediate path to membership.

Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko called the NATO move historic. “This is our victory,” he told reporters. Georgian Foreign Minister David Bakradze also hailed “historic breakthrough” for his country.

But thousands of protesters massed in Ukrainian cities to denounce the prospect of NATO membership, highlighting deep divisions over whether Kiev should look east or west.

“We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO,” NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer told a news conference, reading from a communique agreed at a summit of the pact’s 26 leaders in Bucharest.

NATO promises Ukraine, Georgia entry one day

NATO leaders promised Ukraine and Georgia on Thursday they would one day join the Western defense alliance after rebuffing U.S. demands to put the former Soviet republics on an immediate path to membership.

www.reuters.com

• July 21, 2009

KIEV, Ukraine Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. said Tuesday that the United States would continue to support Ukraine’s bid to join NATO despite Russia’s objections.

Russian officials have been increasingly angered by deepening Western alliances in what it terms its “zone of privileged interests,” and especially the proposed expansion of NATO to include Ukraine and Georgia, which were once part of the Soviet Union. Mr. Biden made it clear that the United States remained enthusiastic about the proposal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/22/world/europe/22biden.html.

This is not, nor ever was, a wonton land grab by a mad man. The threat to Russia was omnipresent , it materialized in 2014

 

[Defilade]

 

[Mosinitis]

Prigozhin returns to Russia. Hmmmmmm.................

 

[holdover]

One month into the great Spring offensive and Ukraine has failed to take anything of significance, nor even reach the main lines of Russian defense.







Good infantry is without doubt the sinews of an army; but if it has to fight a long time against very superior artillery, it will become demoralized and will be destroyed.

Napoleon Bonaparte

 

[Defilade]

OMG! Stop already!

View attachment VID_20230706_221427_515.mp4

 

[Acer-m14]

maybe Russia invaded Ukraine because someone said that they had WMD's

 

[Defilade]

 

[Steal2B]

Sounds like they were being saved to use in our homeland on our own citizens. You know ... just in case ...

 

[Defilade]

Karim Dennis, a political activist from London, spoke about the crimes of NATO and the United States: human trafficking and the sexual exploitation of children by American contractors.

View attachment nato.mp4

 

[Robin]

And yet, the odds of him falling out of his high rise are pretty slim.
Robin

 

[Robin]

Well, lets see, does Mad Vlad have his eye on Moldova or the Baltic states next in his reconstruction of the Putin Soviet Socialist Republic. He already claims a pretty nice chunk of real estate between Poland and Lithuania as Russian, but then he does have a pretty hefty military presence in what used to be Moldova and is now Transnistria , to no one else in the word but Putin. Gosh, these geopolitical maneuverings based on one mans desires are just so exciting its' hard to contain oneself.
But then, it is a good diversion away from the total dismantling of our country, we should all thank Mad Vlad for that, of course, along with any Democrat you might happen into, make sure to thank them for their service, shake their hand and smile humbly, maybe drop a line of congratulations to Shumer for his decades long efforts toward that goal.
Robin

 

[fresch]

If it is ok for Putin, than Germany had every right to reclaim land taken back after ww1.

 

[Robin]

Not so fast!!!! Lithuania may have first dibs on some of that land!

Robin

 

[Mosinitis]

If it is ok for Putin, than Germany had every right to reclaim land taken back after ww1.

Russia pulled out of WWI and didn't participate in Versailles Conference, which did cheat Germany out of more than just territory.
Since Russia didn't take part in this theft or received any of the spoils, your gripe should be addressed towards US, Britain, France and Italy.

 

[fresch]

You missed the point.

 

[GOYABEAN]

Watch Six AK-74s Strapped Together As A Ukrainian Anti-Drone Gun In Action​

Watch Six AK-74s Strapped Together As A Ukrainian Anti-Drone Gun In Action

It looks like something out of a post-apocalyptic Hollywood action movie and its usefulness is questionable, but it sure looks intimidating.

www.thedrive.com

 

[Vapor]

One month into the great Spring offensive and Ukraine has failed to take anything of significance, nor even reach the main lines of Russian defense.


View attachment 204919


View attachment 204920

Good infantry is without doubt the sinews of an army; but if it has to fight a long time against very superior artillery, it will become demoralized and will be destroyed.

Napoleon Bonaparte

Napoleon had such a fun time fighting in Russia.

 

[livingston]

Lindsey Graham & John McCain in Ukraine - Preparing for a proxy war with Russia (2016)​

 

[holdover]

Lindsey Graham & John McCain in Ukraine - Preparing for a proxy war with Russia (2016)​

Clearly, those weapons were meant for defense against Poland and Belarus.

 

[Robin]

One sure way to stop this war, and fast, drill baby drill! De-regulate and unleash our oil industry and it would be over by Christmas. Russia is financing their war with petro dollars. But then, the traitorous assholes running this country don't really want to stop the war, the corrupt scumbags running Ukraine don't want to stop the war, and Mad Vlad(?), well he's winning, kinda sorta, why would he want to stop. So the sham continues and good people die on both sides. Pretty sick times we live in.
Robin