Ukraine - Russia Conflict (Original Title: Things are heating up in the Donbass)
- Thread starter holdover
- Start date
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
CNN
Weeks into Ukraine’s highly anticipated counteroffensive, Western officials describe increasingly “sobering” assessments about Ukrainian forces’ ability to retake significant territory, four senior US and western officials briefed on the latest intelligence told CNN.
“They’re still going to see, for the next couple of weeks, if there is a chance of making some progress. But for them to really make progress that would change the balance of this conflict, I think, it’s extremely, highly unlikely,” a senior western diplomat told CNN.
“Our briefings are sobering. We’re reminded of the challenges they face,” said Rep. Mike Quigley, an Illinois Democrat who recently returned from meetings in Europe with US commanders training Ukrainian armored forces. “This is the most difficult time of the war.”
The primary challenge for Ukrainian forces is the continued difficulty of breaking through Russia’s multi-layered defensive lines in the eastern and southern parts of the country, which are marked by tens of thousands of mines and vast networks of trenches. Ukrainian forces have incurred staggering losses there, leading Ukrainian commanders to hold back some units to regroup and reduce casualties.
“Russians have a number of defensive lines and they [Ukrainian forces] haven’t really gone through the first line,” said a senior Western diplomat. “Even if they would keep on fighting for the next several weeks, if they haven’t been able to make more breakthroughs throughout these last seven, eight weeks, what is the likelihood that they will suddenly, with more depleted forces, make them? Because the conditions are so hard.”
A senior US official said the US recognizes the difficulties Ukrainian forces are facing, though retains hope for renewed progress.
“We all recognize this is going harder and slower than anyone would like – including the Ukrainians – but we still believe there’s time and space for them to be able make progress,” this official said.
White House National Security Council coordinator for strategic communications John Kirby addressed the speed of Ukraine’s counteroffensive Tuesday, telling CNN’s Wolf Blitzer on “The Situation Room” that “even the Ukrainians … including President Zelensky, have said that they’re not going as far as or as fast as he would like.”
Multiple officials said the approach of fall, when weather and fighting conditions are expected to worsen, gives Ukrainian forces a limited window to push forward.
Western officials also say the slow progress has exposed the difficulty of transforming Ukrainian forces into combined mechanized fighting units, sometimes with as few as eight weeks of training on western-supplied tanks and other new weapons systems. The lack of progress on the ground is one reason Ukrainian forces have been striking more often inside Russian territory “to try and show Russian vulnerability,” said a senior US military official.
Western allies receive increasingly ‘sobering’ updates on Ukraine’s counteroffensive: ‘This is the most difficult time of the war’
Weeks into Ukraine’s highly anticipated counteroffensive, Western officials describe increasingly “sobering” assessments about Ukrainian forces’ ability to retake significant territory, four senior US and western officials briefed on the latest intelligence told CNN.
“They’re still going to see, for the next couple of weeks, if there is a chance of making some progress. But for them to really make progress that would change the balance of this conflict, I think, it’s extremely, highly unlikely,” a senior western diplomat told CNN.
“Our briefings are sobering. We’re reminded of the challenges they face,” said Rep. Mike Quigley, an Illinois Democrat who recently returned from meetings in Europe with US commanders training Ukrainian armored forces. “This is the most difficult time of the war.”
The primary challenge for Ukrainian forces is the continued difficulty of breaking through Russia’s multi-layered defensive lines in the eastern and southern parts of the country, which are marked by tens of thousands of mines and vast networks of trenches. Ukrainian forces have incurred staggering losses there, leading Ukrainian commanders to hold back some units to regroup and reduce casualties.
“Russians have a number of defensive lines and they [Ukrainian forces] haven’t really gone through the first line,” said a senior Western diplomat. “Even if they would keep on fighting for the next several weeks, if they haven’t been able to make more breakthroughs throughout these last seven, eight weeks, what is the likelihood that they will suddenly, with more depleted forces, make them? Because the conditions are so hard.”
A senior US official said the US recognizes the difficulties Ukrainian forces are facing, though retains hope for renewed progress.
“We all recognize this is going harder and slower than anyone would like – including the Ukrainians – but we still believe there’s time and space for them to be able make progress,” this official said.
White House National Security Council coordinator for strategic communications John Kirby addressed the speed of Ukraine’s counteroffensive Tuesday, telling CNN’s Wolf Blitzer on “The Situation Room” that “even the Ukrainians … including President Zelensky, have said that they’re not going as far as or as fast as he would like.”
Multiple officials said the approach of fall, when weather and fighting conditions are expected to worsen, gives Ukrainian forces a limited window to push forward.
Western officials also say the slow progress has exposed the difficulty of transforming Ukrainian forces into combined mechanized fighting units, sometimes with as few as eight weeks of training on western-supplied tanks and other new weapons systems. The lack of progress on the ground is one reason Ukrainian forces have been striking more often inside Russian territory “to try and show Russian vulnerability,” said a senior US military official.
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
I am happy to say I and several posters in this thread stayed "sober" all along, while retired generals on news networks are hopeless alcoholics with egg on their face.
Especially this asshole, who also invented "fully semi-automatic rifle".
Especially this asshole, who also invented "fully semi-automatic rifle".
Last edited:
I'm pretty convinced the West and nato doesn't actually really want Ukraine to win. NATO thinks winning is turning this into a 3 to 5 year war with a million plus casualties.
They want to give Ukraine enough to keep going but not enough to get themselves directly in a war with Russia
They want to use the Ukrainians as cannon fodder to wear down and weaken the Russians and drag this out as long as possible and deplete Russia of men and equipment.
They want to give Ukraine enough to keep going but not enough to get themselves directly in a war with Russia
They want to use the Ukrainians as cannon fodder to wear down and weaken the Russians and drag this out as long as possible and deplete Russia of men and equipment.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I have no idea what the end game is, but with the way things have been done in the last few years, it won't be good for USa.
Robin
Robin
This should not be a shock to anyone who has been paying attention. This is not new.
news.yahoo.com
Russia is saving the majority of their real troops for direct conflict with NATO.
Right now Russia is just throwing bullet sponges at Ukraine to wear them down. So everyone can keep saying how many loses Russia has suffered but I'm not sure it really matters much. It's addition by subtraction for them. They are holding back their better units. That's not a coincidence.
Russian invaders use regular military sparingly, deploying conscripts and convicts instead for assaults
Russian invaders are using conscripts and convicts for large-scale assaults on Ukrainian positions, and if they manage to achieve results, only then do they send regular military personnel into battle...
Russia is saving the majority of their real troops for direct conflict with NATO.
Right now Russia is just throwing bullet sponges at Ukraine to wear them down. So everyone can keep saying how many loses Russia has suffered but I'm not sure it really matters much. It's addition by subtraction for them. They are holding back their better units. That's not a coincidence.
He was elected on a platform to improve relations with Russia and end civil war in Donbas. As soon as he got elected he did the opposite on both promises. He could have been a statesman, but he chose to be a puppet of the West. That relationship is not going well either. Even mainstream media acknowledges the rift, although minimizing it.
Last edited:
ManualF150
.308 Win
Not tied to Russia directly, but read this today regarding China and the US: Facing China, the US needs a new civil preparedness movement
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
how long will this war last ..
it will last as long as the war machine is raking in $$$$$$
it will last as long as the war machine is raking in $$$$$$
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Russian Defense Minister: NATO assembled 360,000 troops in Eastern Europe. Poland is preparing to occupy Western Ukraine. Important: If NATO moves from a proxy war setting into a direct war with Russia it will be WW3 with all the devastating consequences.
Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu declared that NATO is now a major direct threat to Russia with its deployment to Ukraine and to the borders of the Russian Federation: “With the armed forces of NATO in Eastern European countries, about 360,000 troops, 8,000 armored vehicles, 6,000 artillery systems and mortars, 600 warplanes and helicopters, which are deployed on the borders of the Federal State (Russia and Belarus),” he stated that this is a direct threat to Russia!
Latvia moves troops to the Belarusian border Columns of military equipment were seen in the city of Ludza. Eyewitnesses report that weapons are moving east. Earlier, the Polish authorities announced similar measures. Lithuania also strengthened its borders.
Latvia to ask thousands of Russian citizens to leave the country
Up to 6,000 of Russian citizens in Latvia are expected to receive official notices next month asking them to leave the country, according to Ingmārs Līdaka, head of the parliament’s Commission on Citizenship, Migration and Public Mobilisation.
www.lrt.lt
Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu declared that NATO is now a major direct threat to Russia with its deployment to Ukraine and to the borders of the Russian Federation: “With the armed forces of NATO in Eastern European countries, about 360,000 troops, 8,000 armored vehicles, 6,000 artillery systems and mortars, 600 warplanes and helicopters, which are deployed on the borders of the Federal State (Russia and Belarus),” he stated that this is a direct threat to Russia!
Latvia moves troops to the Belarusian border Columns of military equipment were seen in the city of Ludza. Eyewitnesses report that weapons are moving east. Earlier, the Polish authorities announced similar measures. Lithuania also strengthened its borders.
Latvia to ask thousands of Russian citizens to leave the country
Up to 6,000 of Russian citizens in Latvia are expected to receive official notices next month asking them to leave the country, according to Ingmārs Līdaka, head of the parliament’s Commission on Citizenship, Migration and Public Mobilisation.
Latvia to ask thousands of Russian citizens to leave the country
Up to 6,000 of Russian citizens in Latvia are expected to receive official notices next month asking them to leave the c...
www.lrt.lt
Last edited:
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
A Western official told CNN in an article published Tuesday that it’s "extremely" unlikely that Ukraine will make progress in its counteroffensive in the coming weeks that will alter the balance of the war with Russia.
"They’re still going to see, for the next couple of weeks, if there is a chance of making some progress. But for them to really make progress that would change the balance of this conflict, I think, it’s extremely, highly unlikely," an unnamed senior Western diplomat said.
Rep. Mike Quigley (D-IL) also spoke to CNN about the counteroffensive and said the briefings Congress has received on the assault are "sobering." He said the situation was the "most difficult time of the war."
Leading up to the counteroffensive, the Discord leaks and media reports revealed that the US did not believe Ukraine could regain much territory.
The Wall Street Journal recently reported that Western officials did not think Ukraine had enough weapons or equipment to dislodge Russian forces. But the Biden administration pushed for the assault anyway, as it rejected the idea of a ceasefire.
www.zerohedge.com
"They’re still going to see, for the next couple of weeks, if there is a chance of making some progress. But for them to really make progress that would change the balance of this conflict, I think, it’s extremely, highly unlikely," an unnamed senior Western diplomat said.
Rep. Mike Quigley (D-IL) also spoke to CNN about the counteroffensive and said the briefings Congress has received on the assault are "sobering." He said the situation was the "most difficult time of the war."
Leading up to the counteroffensive, the Discord leaks and media reports revealed that the US did not believe Ukraine could regain much territory.
The Wall Street Journal recently reported that Western officials did not think Ukraine had enough weapons or equipment to dislodge Russian forces. But the Biden administration pushed for the assault anyway, as it rejected the idea of a ceasefire.
ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Alarm grows as Ukraine’s counteroffensive falters
There is growing alarm about the pace and prospects of Ukraine’s counteroffensive, with few signs of progress in recent weeks and Russian lines holding strong. Those concerns picked up steam …
thehill.com
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
spat
.950 JDJ
Close, but they actually DGAF who controls Ukraine, or how many people die.
What they care about is the money flowing into Ukraine, and how much they can siphon off.
It is for that reason that Ukraine will receive just enough support to stalemate Russia, but never enough to win.
If either side wins, then the gravy train is over.
War PigsRussian Defense Minister: NATO assembled 360,000 troops in Eastern Europe. Poland is preparing to occupy Western Ukraine. Important: If NATO moves from a proxy war setting into a direct war with Russia it will be WW3 with all the devastating consequences.
Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu declared that NATO is now a major direct threat to Russia with its deployment to Ukraine and to the borders of the Russian Federation: “With the armed forces of NATO in Eastern European countries, about 360,000 troops, 8,000 armored vehicles, 6,000 artillery systems and mortars, 600 warplanes and helicopters, which are deployed on the borders of the Federal State (Russia and Belarus),” he stated that this is a direct threat to Russia!
Latvia moves troops to the Belarusian border Columns of military equipment were seen in the city of Ludza. Eyewitnesses report that weapons are moving east. Earlier, the Polish authorities announced similar measures. Lithuania also strengthened its borders.
Latvia to ask thousands of Russian citizens to leave the country
Up to 6,000 of Russian citizens in Latvia are expected to receive official notices next month asking them to leave the country, according to Ingmārs Līdaka, head of the parliament’s Commission on Citizenship, Migration and Public Mobilisation.
Latvia to ask thousands of Russian citizens to leave the country
Up to 6,000 of Russian citizens in Latvia are expected to receive official notices next month asking them to leave the c...
Black Sabbath
Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerer of death's construction
In the fields, the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds
Oh lord, yeah!
Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor, yeah
Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait till their judgement day comes, yeah!
Now in darkness, world stops turning
Ashes where their bodies burning
No more war pigs have the power
Hand of God has struck the hour
Day of judgement, God is calling
On their knees, the war pigs crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan laughing, spreads his wings
Oh lord, yeah!
Russian Defense Minister: NATO assembled 360,000 troops in Eastern Europe. Poland is preparing to occupy Western Ukraine. Important: If NATO moves from a proxy war setting into a direct war with Russia it will be WW3 with all the devastating consequences.
Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu declared that NATO is now a major direct threat to Russia with its deployment to Ukraine and to the borders of the Russian Federation: “With the armed forces of NATO in Eastern European countries, about 360,000 troops, 8,000 armored vehicles, 6,000 artillery systems and mortars, 600 warplanes and helicopters, which are deployed on the borders of the Federal State (Russia and Belarus),” he stated that this is a direct threat to Russia!
Latvia moves troops to the Belarusian border Columns of military equipment were seen in the city of Ludza. Eyewitnesses report that weapons are moving east. Earlier, the Polish authorities announced similar measures. Lithuania also strengthened its borders.
Latvia to ask thousands of Russian citizens to leave the country
Up to 6,000 of Russian citizens in Latvia are expected to receive official notices next month asking them to leave the country, according to Ingmārs Līdaka, head of the parliament’s Commission on Citizenship, Migration and Public Mobilisation.
Latvia to ask thousands of Russian citizens to leave the country
Up to 6,000 of Russian citizens in Latvia are expected to receive official notices next month asking them to leave the c...
I think they are going to expend mobilization, that's why they made this public. They weren't impressed with NATO's armaments, training or tactics.
If Poland makes the move, they also have an option to make it disappear in a matter of minutes and still preserve mutually assured destruction leverage with the U.S.
These are scary thoughts, but it is the reality.
Life is funny....
Unless there is a full fledged apocalypse, the internet is forever.
With a bit of typing, and seeking out the truth, we can all know all there is to know about damn near everything.
This Russia/Ukraine thing is one of those things that fall into the everything part of my statement.
We can re-listen to all of the American politicians speaking of the Ukraine issue from decades ago. We can learn that what is happening is not a new and sudden thing. We can actually know and understand the truths.
So many in the US and around the World only want to look at the last year or so, use the actions of the last year to surmise all that is going on. So much deeper, and history long that so many are not picking up on.
Unless there is a full fledged apocalypse, the internet is forever.
With a bit of typing, and seeking out the truth, we can all know all there is to know about damn near everything.
This Russia/Ukraine thing is one of those things that fall into the everything part of my statement.
We can re-listen to all of the American politicians speaking of the Ukraine issue from decades ago. We can learn that what is happening is not a new and sudden thing. We can actually know and understand the truths.
So many in the US and around the World only want to look at the last year or so, use the actions of the last year to surmise all that is going on. So much deeper, and history long that so many are not picking up on.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Piers Morgan gets absolutely smoked on Ukraine
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Yeah, the Russian dictator isn't acting like a nazi, like at all.
Robin
Robin
The pool of simpletons who believe that is getting smaller and smaller.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Yes, that is correct. You and holder.
Robin
Robin
spat
.950 JDJ
Well, there is only one leader here violently pursuing a policy that looks suspiciously like Lebensraum...
Hitler wanted to control Europe. U.S. wants to control the entire world and it's drilled into American psyche that this is how it supposed to be.
Last edited:
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
How do you make that comparison?
spat
.950 JDJ
Violently invading your neighbor to acquire their territory.
Just look at the rhetoric your buddy @Mosinitis uses to defend putin. It's all about how Ukraine is rightfully Russian territory...
You could take some of the speeches and run a search/replace on Donbass and Sudetenland and you could easily have pass them off for the other.