Ukraine - Russia Conflict (Original Title: Things are heating up in the Donbass)

[Willyone]

The Russian government prosecutes, jails, kills, eliminates those who challenge it?!?

Damn... it's good our USA government doesn't do anything like that.

 

[Mosinitis]

The order to retreat from Avdeyevka came after Ukrainian troops started to abandon their positions and running away. The order was given to save face. This is shown on newly released videos.

 

[Willyone]

Meh... let's send the Ukr's another $100B or so, that should hold'm over for another month or two. After Joe gets his 10% kick back that'll still leave $90B for the Ukr's to pocket. Win/win...

 

[Mosinitis]

New Ukrainian military commander Sransky sent hard core Azov and similar troops to keep discipline and block retreat. Russians attacked and destroyed most of them en route. The rest is history.

 

[Robin]

Ха, неси тягар світу!
Robin

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

New Ukrainian military commander Sransky sent hard core Azov and similar troops to keep discipline and block retreat. Russians attacked and destroyed most of them en route. The rest is history.

It's frigging sad watching a country and an entire generation of men being wiped out solely for greed.


Most of these people fleeing want no part of the hellish fighting. They were conscripted or kidnapped off the streets or trying to do a patriotic duty but in reality they just want to be home with their families. It's very likely they are a bunch of 40 and 50 year old men since most of the prime military aged men are already depleted.

It's unconscionable.

Any sane human should be encouraging a peace deal to stop the destruction and killing. Only an evil psychopath would continue to feed the machine of destruction sacrificing Ukrainian blood and territory for some perceived sense of weaking Russia or jockeying for position to carve up post war Ukraine resources.

This is going to go down as an evil short sighted strategic blunder from the west. They have lost all moral standing of superiority and their agenda is on display. They have destroyed Russias trust for a generation so there's no chance Russia just stops and goes back to how things were in 2017. No cooperation. Russia is going to continue to remain in a state of militarized mobilization. How will that fare for European and global stability? With all eyes and resources on Europe, now the middle East is degenerating to shit again and china is licking their lips learning all these lessons and waiting for their moment to make a move. This folly will be felt in geopolitics for decades.

I'm just disgusted as what this has become. I'm even more mad at all the Biden voters and voter fraud because if Trump won who knows if any of this would be different. I know it certainly wouldn't be worse.

The world is absolutely on the wrong course and the next 5-10 years are going to be full of conflict and chaos.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

When someone says they don't know anything about how airforce's operate today, without actually saying it.

My prediction,

Ukraine won't have the infrastructure to support the f16s so 1 of 2 outcomes will happen.


1- Ukraine will fly and operate the f16s from actual NATO airfields in Poland.

2- NATO will establish a no fly zone over western Ukraine to protect the f16 infrastructure in western Ukraine.

Either plan is very likely going to (deliberately) get NATO pulled into the conflict. Russia won't just sit there and say sure Ukraine use your donated F16s to launch donated cruise missiles at Russian airbases, navy ships and Moscow no problem. No. Russia will have no choice but to attack the F16s on the ground regardless where they are located.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Let me make my point in another way...

Everyone is talking about "Western volunteers/mercenaries" in Ukraine fighting Russia.

Flip it.

Ukraine is actually NATOs unwitting mercenary to fight Russia for us.

We are giving Ukraine F16s, we are training their pilots and maintainers, we are giving them the munitions. It's literally NATO with a Ukrainian guy doing the flying and button pushing.

Ukraine is actually NATOs mercenary. We are supplying equipping and training them to fight Russia for us. The west has no desire for a peace deal. When have you heard any prominent western politicians speaking out calling for peace? You haven't. They are very satisfied to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian.

 

[holdover]

A no fly zone will be equivalent to a declaration of war against Russia. Putin is shrewd though, he may not take the bait , He can shoot down any aircraft over Ukraine attacking Russian forces without causeing a war with NATO ,and because they are taking off from distant airfields it will take longer to reach thier targets , The Russians will be alerted as soon as they leave the runways . Its not going to be as easy as they think . And they dont think much.

 

[holdover]

As sure as I write this, Russia has contingency plans if Poland crosses the border. They most likely have 250,000+ troops in reserve allocated only for a NATO attack. No doubt in my mind .

 

[Mosinitis]

Taylor Swift media is painting a picture of some kind of Navalnyvite, pro-Western movement gaining momentum in Russia. The evidence is handful of loopy women with flowers who appear in front of the cameras in different Russian cities and abroad.
In reality there is a significant internal political pressure on Putin to admit that WW3 is already going on and any deal made with the West is worthless, considering past experience. There is pressure on Putin to take off the gloves. This is not something I am happy about, but I can see the logic in this and understand the consequences of Russian cities being attacked by NATO, directly or not.

I am glad Putin is holding out, no one wants escalation, but we are inching closer and closer to all out war. Russophobic cocksuckers in this country are denying Russia's capability to hit back. All these trotted out experts, retired generals who defeated Panama and Grenada are so fucking sure they can scare Russia into submission. GOOD LUCK.

 

[1341]

Pretty sure a no fly zone has already been established over Ukraine and several hundred square miles of russian territory by the Ukrainians. Correct in saying using NATO supplied air defense systems, but the Ukrainians are the ones coming up with the new ideas in using them.

 

[holdover]

Pretty sure a no fly zone has already been established over Ukraine and several hundred square miles of russian territory by the Ukrainians. Correct in saying using NATO supplied air defense systems, but the Ukrainians are the ones coming up with the new ideas in using them.

How would they enforce it with no air force? That doesn't make a lot of sense

 

[holdover]

Large numbers of Russian forces begin an assault on Robotyne from 2 directions

 

[1341]

How would they enforce it with no air force? That doesn't make a lot of sense

Do the russians fly over Ukraine lately?

 

[1341]

All the russian jets shot down lately have been shot down over russia.

 

[1341]

Can't be that many "mistakes" by russian air defense systems

 

[holdover]

Do the russians fly over Ukraine lately?

No they haven't since the start of the war, People were wondering why the Russians were holding back thier airforce. the fact is they couldn't afford to lose thier aircraft , and face NATO with nothing. It takes years to train pilots and build aircraft. If they lost a good number , they would be fucked , they had to play it safe . if NATO jumped into the war they were going to need every plane possible .

On the same line of questioning, Where was the Ukraine airforce during the summer offensive? The Ukraian generals were reluctant to attack because they had no air cover. They were screaming that they couldn't break though without an airforce. They blamed the failureof the offensive on lack of air cover . Where were they during the battle of Bakmut? Advika? Zaporiga? ( Forgive the spelling)

 

[holdover]

All the russian jets shot down lately have been shot down over russia.

and you know for a fact it wasnt ground to air missles?

 

[holdover]

Do the russians fly over Ukraine lately?

Do the Ukrainian airforce fly over Ukraine? theres a massive assault on Robatyne , wheres the aircover?

meanwhile zelensky been crying about F 16's

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Do the Ukrainian airforce fly over Ukraine? theres a massive assault on Robatyne , wheres the aircover?

meanwhile zelensky been crying about F 16's

Good point

The fact of the matter is that it's an extremely dangerous area of operations for aircraft usage. It's a high threat environment.

To reliably survive there needs to be a coordinated usage of long range stand off weapons, electronic spectrum suppression, stealth and low observable technology all integrated together. That's not easy. It's very complex. Anything short of that and an aircraft probably stands a 1 in 10 chance of not surviving it's mission.

This isn't 1942 where planes can be churned out in days made of sheet metal, cables and machine guns. Nope. Far more complex involving multiple subcomponent manufacturers all of which have their own long term supply lead times and supply chain bottle necks. It also takes a lot more time and effort to train a pilot. Risking loses of 1 in 10 is not sustainable on a modern battlefield for very long.

 

[1341]

No they haven't since the start of the war, People were wondering why the Russians were holding back thier airforce. the fact is they couldn't afford to lose thier aircraft , and face NATO with nothing. It takes years to train pilots and build aircraft. If they lost a good number , they would be fucked , they had to play it safe . if NATO jumped into the war they were going to need every plane possible .

On the same line of questioning, Where was the Ukraine airforce during the summer offensive? The Ukraian generals were reluctant to attack because they had no air cover. They were screaming that they couldn't break though without an airforce. They blamed the failureof the offensive on lack of air cover . Where were they during the battle of Bakmut? Advika? Zaporiga? ( Forgive the spelling)

I think you answered that in your first paragraph

 

[holdover]

During the battle of Advika the russians had been useing the FAB 500's heavy air lauched gulide bombs simialr to our own J- dams with great effect , they dropped hundreds of these air launch bombs into Advika , It appears the Ukraines moved some of thier air defenses Forward to help stop these attacks on Advika and they were able to reach over lines and shoot down some planes , Thats all that really happened.

 

[1341]

Curious, how many?

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Curious, how many?

No one knows.

Every side is pumping out propaganda to further their narrative.

Ukraine claims they've killed xxx,xxx Russians and only lost xx,xxx Ukrainians.

Russia claims they've killed xxx,xxxx Ukrainians and only lost xx,xxx Russians.

I really don't think either side is honestly reporting loses. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

I do know that one side has forbidden their citizens from leaving the country and are forcibly kidnapping/conscripting them. One sides average age of soldiers is now something absurd like avg. Age of 45 years old so what does that say?

Russia has lost a lot of planes. But they still have planes to fly. Many of their losses were su22 frog foots. The splashy headlines of su-34s maybe around 8-10 have been lost total. Their command and control AWACS and IL76 loses hurt more than a few SU22s

When Ukraine is desperate enough to fly their planes they are essentially on a suicide mission. That's why I'm pretty convinced they are going to pull some shenanigans to base their F16s out of Poland or something.

 

[Robin]

And still the senseless war of the corrupt continues. Disgusting!

 

[Willyone]

And still the senseless war of the corrupt continues. Disgusting!

Welp, there's no $profit$ in peace.

Yessir it is disgusting, beyond disgusting. There are two corrupt leaders in two corrupt countries shooting at each other. We don't need to be part of it. But then, our government is also corrupt.

 

[Robin]

We are a part of it, and not for the right reasons.
Robin

 

[tirwin1]

Ukraine claims they've killed xxx,xxx Russians and only lost xx,xxx Ukrainians.

Russia claims they've killed xxx,xxxx Ukrainians and only lost xx,xxx Russians.

I really don't think either side is honestly reporting loses. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

I don't expect honest reporting from either side. Has anyone come across loss statistics that seem reasonable at all?

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

I don't expect honest reporting from either side. Has anyone come across loss statistics that seem reasonable at all?

No.

But a shit ton of people are dead and wounded. The real number of both military and civilians has to be north of 500k. Some of these videos are like watching ww1 or ww2 battles. A lot of people are dying every single day.