Constructing AR using fixed-mag lower= "take possession"?

[Saltwater60]

So.....you're leaving me out. No gifts for me. See how you are ?

Actually I have a KORE gun belt I hate that I have been meaning to post up for free on here. I cut it oversized and should fit to about a 38-40” waste. It’s yours free if you want it. It’s olive drab green with a black buckle. I only wore it for a few weeks. It keeps up and pinched my stomach but I know plenty love them. My son has one he doesn’t like either that’s about brand new. I’m not sure what we cut that for on size.

 

[BlakeLok]

The NY law for semi-auto rifles states:

It is illegal to purchase or take possession of a semi-auto rifle without a semi-auto rifle license.

Does this include buying a fixed-mag lower through an FFL, a standard AR upper from a website, and attaching the two?

Has this possible loophole been tested in court yet? Any guidance from State Police?

Update: I am no longer going this route. Kali Key seems the way to go.

 

[Saltwater60]

Update: I am no longer going this route. Kali Key seems the way to go.

I personally would not go this route. What is the benefit? Ergonomics on this suck IMO. What is this rifle for? If it’s for hunting get a bolt action hunting rifle as they are much lighter. If it’s for shooting I do not think you’ll like this option.
Also legally speaking this is a super easy swap from the Kali Key to an illegal gun. People were worried about the fixed mag options and being illegal and yet this is the easiest conversion back to a full “assault weapon” out there.
You do what works for you but this is expensive and to me it’s useless.

 

[BlakeLok]

I personally would not go this route. What is the benefit? Ergonomics on this suck IMO. What is this rifle for? If it’s for hunting get a bolt action hunting rifle as they are much lighter. If it’s for shooting I do not think you’ll like this option.
Also legally speaking this is a super easy swap from the Kali Key to an illegal gun. People were worried about the fixed mag options and being illegal and yet this is the easiest conversion back to a full “assault weapon” out there.
You do what works for you but this is expensive and to me it’s useless.

I really like the AR platform and all the possible accessories and changes. Personally i dont mind the extra time it takes to use the bolt action feature, it lets the barrel cool down a little and i dont feel the need to shoot quickly anyway. I like to take my time.

 

[pramaglia]

I think you may need the semi-auto permit to buy any semi auto rifle. I've read that by definition the bolt carrier group is considered the semi-auto part of an AR. I recently purchased a Ruger 10/22 and the FFL made me show my semi-auto permit. FYI - I was sighting in an AR at a makeshift target range in a local state forest and a DEC officer came by and questioned me about my AR being very "tactical" in appearance. I assured him and showed him that the magazine was pinned, and it had a 5 shot limiter installed, and the rifle scope, bipod and weapon light were for coyote hunting. After conversing with him awhile he commented about his AR and shared his feeling about the NY Unsafe Act and that Cuomo and Hochul suck. lol

 

[Saltwater60]

I think you may need the semi-auto permit to buy any semi auto rifle. I've read that by definition the bolt carrier group is considered the semi-auto part of an AR. I recently purchased a Ruger 10/22 and the FFL made me show my semi-auto permit. FYI - I was sighting in an AR at a makeshift target range in a local state forest and a DEC officer came by and questioned me about my AR being very "tactical" in appearance. I assured him and showed him that the magazine was pinned, and it had a 5 shot limiter installed, and the rifle scope, bipod and weapon light were for coyote hunting. After conversing with him awhile he commented about his AR and shared his feeling about the NY Unsafe Act and that Cuomo and Hochul suck. lol

Never offer up anything not required to divulge.

 

[BlakeLok]

I think you may need the semi-auto permit to buy any semi auto rifle. I've read that by definition the bolt carrier group is considered the semi-auto part of an AR. I recently purchased a Ruger 10/22 and the FFL made me show my semi-auto permit. FYI - I was sighting in an AR at a makeshift target range in a local state forest and a DEC officer came by and questioned me about my AR being very "tactical" in appearance. I assured him and showed him that the magazine was pinned, and it had a 5 shot limiter installed, and the rifle scope, bipod and weapon light were for coyote hunting. After conversing with him awhile he commented about his AR and shared his feeling about the NY Unsafe Act and that Cuomo and Hochul suck. lol

Can i ask which state forest? You can PM me.

 

[pramaglia]

Can i ask which state forest? You can PM me.

Vernooy Kill in Wawarsing.

 

[Zerex]

This is common practice at gun ranges too, by range Officers, due to INS issues.................

No illegal, or legally questionable guns, without the AW license may be fired, is common practice. Range Officers may be retired or off duty LE.


AW hunger is real....................get a NYS compliant AR, and blast away.

 

[BlakeLok]

Vernooy Kill in Wawarsing.

Any other State Forests you target shoot in?

 

[pramaglia]

Any other State Forests you target shoot in?

No, not at this time.

 

[Zerex]

No AR bolt carrier ever made, is the semi auto part or a "gun or firearm".
Show me the serial number

It is the serial numbered, and MFG marked, AR lower receiver, that is a semi automatic gun.

Existing semi you may own were grandfathered.....maybe.
NYS is a big maybe state.

 

[dsdmmat]

No AR bolt carrier ever made, is the semi auto part or a "gun or firearm".
Show me the serial number

It is the serial numbered, and MFG marked, AR lower receiver, that is a semi automatic gun.

Existing semi you may own were grandfathered.....maybe.
NYS is a big maybe state.

This is completely incorrect.

while the lower receiver is classified as the firearm and requires a serial number (if not home made, except in the communist states), the lower receiver itself does not determine/ mandate what type action it is classified as, that is determined by the upper receiver attached to it. In fact that stripped Lower receivers are classified as an “Other” on the Form 4473 and no action or caliber is listed on the 4473 at time of sale.

the fact there are factory bolt action, muzzle loader, and pump action uppers receivers built for/on AR receivers disproves your post.

https://uintahprecision.com/

Atlantic Firearms, LLC

atlanticfirearms.com

Precision made Bolt Action Style Uppers | Bear Creek Arsenal

Bear Creek Arsenal's Bolt Action Style Uppers, blending bolt-action accuracy with AR adaptability. Perfect choice for precision shooters and hunters at low costs!

www.bearcreekarsenal.com

Semi-auto action refers to a firearm mechanism that automatically loads a new cartridge into the chamber after each shot, but requires the shooter to pull the trigger for each individual shot fired.

Tell me how a lower receiver (the serial numbered part) by itself is going to do that?

 

[Zerex]

Buy one in NYS, today, without a semi endorsement....................

Sovereign Citizen reasoning will get the naieve without a Semi endorsement frustrated, quick.

 

[dsdmmat]

Buy one in NYS, today, without a semi endorsement....................

Sovereign Citizen reqsoning will get the naieve without a Semi endorsment frustrated, quick.

What you can and cannot do in The People’s Republic of New York at the FFLs who are scared of their own shadow, is irrelevant, your statement is completely false.

I just verified with the FFL in NY I did business with for 20 years and she confirmed Stripped AR lowers are still transferable without a Semi Auto endorsement. Your latest post is more BS and fear mongering.

I am having trouble determining if you are just full of ignorant babble or a deliberate troll.

 

[HEX]

Buy one in NYS, today, without a semi endorsement....................

Sovereign Citizen reqsoning will get the naieve without a Semi endorsment frustrated, quick.

This is really just trolling at this point. You fail to engage with anyone disproving your statement and just stick to saying the same nonsense over and over.

 

[Zerex]

Not trolling.

All the FFL's I frequent will no longer transfer an AR lower, with or without a semi endorsement..................especially after the Mean Arms mag lock ban, in February.

Attorney General James Stops Sale of Gun Accessory that Aided Buffalo Shooter

NEW YORK – New York Attorney General Letitia James, together with Everytown for Gun Safety, GIFFORDS, John V. Elmore P.C., Connors LLP, and Collins & Collins

ag.ny.gov

This got most FFL's attention.

NYSP-JTTF Dealer Inspection Checklist 07.25.2023 — 2AM Patriot

This 4-page checklist is being used by agents of the NYS Police “Joint Terrorism Task Force” and “Domestic Terrorism” units when they conduct dealer compliance inspections at FFLs in New York. It does not bear any identifying or self-authenticating information. It was supplied by two different agent

www.2ampatriot.com

Plus, 15 ATF offices in NYS with nothing to do but inspect the FFL's semi sales records.

Press Releases | ATF

www.atf.gov

The Ostrich tactic does not work....................this is not Pennsylvania.

 

[Saltwater60]

Not trolling.

All the FFL's I frequent will no longer transfer an AR lower, with or without a semi endorsement..................especially after the Mean Arms mag lock ban, in February.

Attorney General James Stops Sale of Gun Accessory that Aided Buffalo Shooter

NEW YORK – New York Attorney General Letitia James, together with Everytown for Gun Safety, GIFFORDS, John V. Elmore P.C., Connors LLP, and Collins & Collins

ag.ny.gov

This got most FFL's attention.

NYSP-JTTF Dealer Inspection Checklist 07.25.2023 — 2AM Patriot

This 4-page checklist is being used by agents of the NYS Police “Joint Terrorism Task Force” and “Domestic Terrorism” units when they conduct dealer compliance inspections at FFLs in New York. It does not bear any identifying or self-authenticating information. It was supplied by two different agent

www.2ampatriot.com

Plus, 15 ATF offices in NYS with nothing to do but inspect the FFL's semi sales records.

Press Releases | ATF

www.atf.gov

The Ostrich tactic does not work....................this is not Pennsylvania.

Banning one companies maglock does not relate to a stripped lower. By your logic any stripped lower would be sold to no one because the kid who did the Tops shooting removed the mag lock. If a mag lock was t present his goal would have been easier.

If companies choose to not sell a legal product to a person then that’s on them. I just looked at an FFL by me and they are still selling their mag lock, and there is nothing in their website about needing the semi automatic permit to buy a lower.

 

[Saltwater60]

I find it very interesting that this website says must be epoxied or JB weld, and no silicone based products are allowed. Odd isn’t it?

AR-15 MAGAZINE LOCK

AR-15 MAGAZINE LOCK NEW YORK SAFE ACT LEGAL

ddsranch.com

 

[Brawny71]

Without case law all we have discussed is speculative. Mag locks, Thortson Stocks all are interpretation without validation; case law. Many FFL’s are trying hard not to stray from the words because of the liability and lack of answers from the state.

 

[Zerex]

Yeah?
DD Ranch lock.........no different

Attorney General James Stops Sale of Gun Accessory that Aided Buffalo Shooter

NEW YORK – New York Attorney General Letitia James, together with Everytown for Gun Safety, GIFFORDS, John V. Elmore P.C., Connors LLP, and Collins & Collins

ag.ny.gov

Be the first to test it.

Rhode island passed a Safe Act last July, and now is going to ban AW's entirely. Likely soon to be here, and in all Blue 12 states in rebellion.

Gun owners muster for RI State House hearing, looking to head off proposed restrictions • Rhode Island Current

Second Amendment supporters and gun safety proponents filled the State House Wednesday as Rhode Island lawmakers conducted a hearing on a package of gun bills. They included proposals to ban possessing assault-style weapons, hold gunmakers and sellers accountable, and expand safety training...

rhodeislandcurrent.com

 

[FP1201]

Yeah?
DD Ranch lock.........no different

Attorney General James Stops Sale of Gun Accessory that Aided Buffalo Shooter

NEW YORK – New York Attorney General Letitia James, together with Everytown for Gun Safety, GIFFORDS, John V. Elmore P.C., Connors LLP, and Collins & Collins

ag.ny.gov

Be the first to test it.

Rhode island passed a Safe Act last July, and now is going to ban AW's entirely. Likely soon to be here, and in all Blue 12 states in rebellion.

Gun owners muster for RI State House hearing, looking to head off proposed restrictions • Rhode Island Current

Second Amendment supporters and gun safety proponents filled the State House Wednesday as Rhode Island lawmakers conducted a hearing on a package of gun bills. They included proposals to ban possessing assault-style weapons, hold gunmakers and sellers accountable, and expand safety training...

rhodeislandcurrent.com

We have sold and installed literally hundreds of Magazine Locks in not only MSR's but other previously defined assault weapons...never a problem until YOU remove it and invite the man into your life...It has been "tested" and the State comes up woefully lacking, even the FFL from West Monroe (who coincidentally or maybe not, was Black with a mostly Black clientele) was jammed up by Magazine locks and in the end the DA in an attempt to avoid a Court Case where the Law and application would be adjudicated in a State wide precedence capitulated with the prevision that epoxy be used to fill the hole. There IS a historical precedence, there is no direction from the NYSP, no one will say or write anything besides the way the Law is written, and for 13 years this has been the case in New York, and I don't give a fat-flying-fuck about Rhode Island or any other States infringement Laws, they are irrelevant to New York, as if they were then the very laws (magazine capacity Bans, Ammunition, taxes, et.al. would have been applied to overturn NY's prohibitions)

 

[JunkBoxFull]

Ugh, i`ve got a migraine headache after reading all the nonsense.

 

[Saltwater60]

Yeah?
DD Ranch lock.........no different

Attorney General James Stops Sale of Gun Accessory that Aided Buffalo Shooter

NEW YORK – New York Attorney General Letitia James, together with Everytown for Gun Safety, GIFFORDS, John V. Elmore P.C., Connors LLP, and Collins & Collins

ag.ny.gov

Be the first to test it.

Rhode island passed a Safe Act last July, and now is going to ban AW's entirely. Likely soon to be here, and in all Blue 12 states in rebellion.

Gun owners muster for RI State House hearing, looking to head off proposed restrictions • Rhode Island Current

Second Amendment supporters and gun safety proponents filled the State House Wednesday as Rhode Island lawmakers conducted a hearing on a package of gun bills. They included proposals to ban possessing assault-style weapons, hold gunmakers and sellers accountable, and expand safety training...

rhodeislandcurrent.com

There is a difference. Mean arms had directions on how to remove it, this place tells you to lock it and epoxy it in place.
I can also 100% verify I have seen Erie county sheriffs, Hamburg police and NYS police inspecting these firearms for sale at the Hamburg gun show multiple times over multiple years. They have also been to his establishment in east aurora. I know this for a fact and have seen it first hand. They are sold at the gun show. So if they are illegal why hasn’t he been arrested or those who bought it not been arrested?

NYS Has too sceered real good.

 

[Saltwater60]

Ugh, i`ve got a migraine headache after reading all the nonsense.


View attachment 281571

Agreed stupid pointless thread that has been hashed out multiple times. OP has already said he’s not going this route and will go Kalikey

 

[Zerex]

No, unless a gun is found during a crime, or after, only then, can and will the cops ask the local weapons officer to determine if it is an AW or not.

Paperwork


Why arrest someone at a gun show for gun locked guns, until after the
AG edict is widely known about, and it will be.

No precedent is set, except for the odd case here and there, like Camden where the STATE man took it apart..........the STATE man.

Paperwork is a bitch for cops.

If I was an FFL i would not sell any more such mag locked guns, in NYS.

Few Judges or prosecutors will disagree, on whether a mag lock is a mag lock, regardless of brand, IN A CRIMINAL CASE, and focus on the written law itself..................designed.............

This is not getting better for us, it is getting worse....................the 12 blue states will eventually all agree.

 

[Tisto]

No, unless a gun is found during a crime, or after, only then, can and will the cops ask the local weapons officer to determine if it is an AW or not.

Paperwork


Why arrest someone at a gun show for gun locked guns, until after the
AG edict is widely known about, and it will be.

No precedent is set, except for the odd case here and there, like Camden where the STATE man took it apart..........the STATE man.

Paperwork is a bitch for cops.

If I was an FFL i would not sell any more such mag locked guns, in NYS.

Few Judges or prosecutors will disagree, on whether a mag lock is a mag lock, regardless of brand, IN A CRIMINAL CASE, and focus on the written law itself..................designed.............

This is not getting better for us, it is getting worse....................the 12 blue states will eventually all agree.

Nope ! You're pulling shit out of your ass again. The SAFE act does not say "DESIGNED". It says "capacity to accept a detachable magazine".

Furthermore, any member of the Purple Tie Brigade would be happy to publicly shut down a FFL selling those "Dangerous weapons of war". It would mean a ton of press and most likely a commendation or promotion, glossy pictures of them with the Governor, the works. Members of PTB have wet dreams about that shit.

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but STATE anti-gun laws are getting attention and pushback from the DOJ. Maryland's AWB is on track to get tossed. Virginia is being spanked pre-emptively. Illinois. Hawii. There are even actions being taken right here in PRNY. State infringements are under attack. Yes, it takes time. Yes, it doesn't FEEL like anything is being won. But an honest and objective look at the status of State laws is encouraging. The trend is heading in the right direction.

 

[Saltwater60]

No, unless a gun is found during a crime, or after, only then, can and will the cops ask the local weapons officer to determine if it is an AW or not.

Paperwork


Why arrest someone at a gun show for gun locked guns, until after the
AG edict is widely known about, and it will be.

No precedent is set, except for the odd case here and there, like Camden where the STATE man took it apart..........the STATE man.

Paperwork is a bitch for cops.

If I was an FFL i would not sell any more such mag locked guns, in NYS.

Few Judges or prosecutors will disagree, on whether a mag lock is a mag lock, regardless of brand, IN A CRIMINAL CASE, and focus on the written law itself..................designed.............

This is not getting better for us, it is getting worse....................the 12 blue states will eventually all agree.

So they will just keep allowing illegal guns to be sold to 100,000’s of NYers until they commit a crime with them and then arrest them for the illegal gun? So we don’t just arrest people for criminal possession of a weapon or selling illegal guns?
I don’t get this line of thinking at all. As stated many cops on many occasions have seen the DD’s Ranch mag lock sold at gun shows. If it was illegal they would stop it. This guy sells a lot of these guns in my area.

 

[FP1201]

So they will just keep allowing illegal guns to be sold to 100,000’s of NYers until they commit a crime with them and then arrest them for the illegal gun? So we don’t just arrest people for criminal possession of a weapon or selling illegal guns?
I don’t get this line of thinking at all. As stated many cops on many occasions have seen the DD’s Ranch mag lock sold at gun shows. If it was illegal they would stop it. This guy sells a lot of these guns in my area.

And HAS for the last fifteen or more years...Remember before the unSAFE Act was the "Assault Weapons Ban" both Federally and New York's own version of it.

 

[Zerex]

The Maryland AWB is not going before SCOTUS. Snopes was not given cert and Venderstock was a disaster.

Educate yourself.

Feeling good about your opinions, does not make it true.
I simply do not want anyone arrested for standing out in a field alone, shouting at windmills.

An Update on Challenges to State Assault Weapon and Magazine Bans | Duke Center for Firearms Law

firearmslaw.duke.edu

Duke and 4 boxes diner ARE sources.