Israeli-American ties, good or bad? Somewhere in between?

Pale Rider · Jul 9, 2026

Defilade said:
Wouldn't someone who is murdering woman and children be on the dark side? I'm confused.. Who do you think Epstein was BTW??

holdover said:
they blow up an entire apartment building because there was a few bad guys in it , (they claim) thats the justification.

If somebody killed your family and you tracked them down to an apartment building and blew it up and killed 50-60 people, you would be charged with 1st degree murder. Nobody is going to give you pa ss .

That's a faulty analogy. If someone had killed several of my children and were still shooting at the rest of them, from a house where there were other people who knew that the shooters were shooting at my family, and had been warned to get out, but decided to stick around to give the bad guys cover, I wouldn't hesitate to hoot into that house.

holdover · Jul 9, 2026

Pale Rider said:
That's a faulty analogy

its not a faulty anaogy, its not even an analogy. Isreal did bomb apartment buildings with civilians in them and justified it because bad guys were there, they even bombed a refugee camp because some bad guys were there.

I dont understand why you would defend the war crimes of another nation. its beyond me . its immoral. I wouldnt defend the war crimes of our own soldiers. what kind of men are you? who am I even talking with?

holdover · Jul 9, 2026

Pale Rider said:
and had been warned to get out,

LOL nobody was warned. they are Amalek .

This what the butcher of gaza said to his troops just before the invasion of Gaza.

1 Samuel 15:3

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

its on you tube still if you care to watch it

Netanyahu's Horrifying Biblical Link: Amalek and Gaza

Saltwater60 · Jul 9, 2026

Pale Rider said:
''Prominent journalist Tucker Carlson issues a terrifying warning to Washington.

He declares the world will soon discover exactly how many innocent women and children Israel murdered.''.

Tucker Carlson has gone over to the dark side. He is a rabid antisemite. He even claims to have been attacked by a demon. The fact that someone would cite him to support their point tells me all I need to know about that person.

He’s gone off the deep end. He has sided with Russia as well.

Saltwater60 · Jul 9, 2026

Pale Rider said:
"Wouldn't someone who is murdering woman and children be on the dark side? I'm confused.. Who do you think Epstein was BTW??"

You mean Hamas? Yes, they are definitely dark side. Israel doesn't murder anybody. They take more care to avoid civilian casualties than any country ever has. And Israel doesn't attack anyone who doesn't attack them first. Who Epstein may or may not have been is totally irrelevant. And I agree that you are confused.

These scum hide in and among the citizens so of course there will be issues and some civilian casualties. We had them as well so are we any different?

spat · Jul 9, 2026

holdover said:
its not a faulty anaogy, its not even an analogy. Isreal did bomb apartment buildings with civilians in them and justified it because bad guys were there, they even bombed a refugee camp because some bad guys were there.

I dont understand why you would defend the war crimes of another nation. its beyond me . its immoral. I wouldnt defend the war crimes of our own soldiers. what kind of men are you? who am I even talking with?

How many German and Japanese civilians do you think we killed in WWII ?

After Oct7th Isreal would be fully justified in hitting Gaza the way we hit Dresden or Tokyo.

If there's an apartment building with 100 residents, and 2 guys are shooting at you from a window, I'd have no problem calling in a JDAM strike through the roof. That's just how war goes.

Also, what makes you think there were *any* civilians in the building ? Because of the rampant perfidity perpetrated by Hamas, you basically have to assume *everyone* is a combatant until proven otherwise.

holdover · Jul 10, 2026

spat said:
How many German and Japanese civilians do you think we killed in WWII ?

Thats a valid point,

Pale Rider · Jul 10, 2026

holdover said:
its not a faulty anaogy, its not even an analogy. Isreal did bomb apartment buildings with civilians in them and justified it because bad guys were there, they even bombed a refugee camp because some bad guys were there.

I dont understand why you would defend the war crimes of another nation. its beyond me . its immoral. I wouldnt defend the war crimes of our own soldiers. what kind of men are you? who am I even talking with?

"If somebody killed your family and you tracked them down to an apartment building and blew it up and killed 50-60 people, you would be charged with 1st degree murder. Nobody is going to give you pass ."

That is, indeed, an analogy, albeit a faulty one.

holdover · Jul 10, 2026

Pale Rider said:
"If somebody killed your family and you tracked them down to an apartment building and blew it up and killed 50-60 people, you would be charged with 1st degree murder. Nobody is going to give you pass ."

That is, indeed, an analogy, albeit a faulty one.

except when its a fact and it happened then its not an analogy. Another Israel first winner. keep sending them your money

""Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen".

Zerex · Jul 10, 2026

The allies firebombed over 50 German cities like Dresden, and killed multi thousands of civilians because there are no civilians in war.

We firebombed Tokyo on March 11, 1945..............killed 100,000.

Hamas must be anhilated, as does half of Iran.

Israel is poverty stricken

Poverty in israel Articles and latest stories | The Jerusalem Post

www.jpost.com

The streets are not paved with gold.

Pale Rider · Jul 10, 2026

holdover said:
except when its a fact and it happened then its not an analogy. Another Israel first winner. keep sending them your money

""Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen".

But it is not a fact. I did not track anyone down to an apartment building and blow it up. That is what makes your example an analogy.

spat · Jul 10, 2026

Pale Rider said:
But it is not a fact. I did not track anyone down to an apartment building and blow it up. That is what makes your example an analogy.

The main fundamental flaw in the analogy is that almost *everything* in war would be murder if judged by civilian standards.

The rules of civilian life are just not applicable in war. Calling your boss a son of a bitch isn't even a crime in civilian life. In war it can get you serious prison time.

Killing dozens of people will get you an award in war, in civilian life it makes you a serial killer.

A civilian cop who killed gang members on sight based only on how they dressed would be a monster.

A soldier doing the same with the enemy is just how you fight a war.

Pale Rider · Jul 10, 2026

holdover said:
Whaa? they just launched a surprise attack in sept against Iran , they have bombed syria and lebbanon almost not stop for years .

Do you really want to assert that Israel has not been the victim of attack from Syria, Lebanon or Iran?

Brawny71 · Jul 10, 2026

Pale Rider said:
Not only that, but not all those of the Jewish faith have the same goals. There are some ultra-orthodox Jews who hate Christians, just like there are some people who claim to be Christians who protest at the funeral of soldiers who die on duty and spew vile rhetoric at their family. We don't judge Christianity by the actions of that scum just as we shouldn't judge Judaism based on the actions of those radicals.

Agree. We “US” folk generalize and label to much. Also we become experts via Facebook and AI.

Brawny71 · Jul 10, 2026

holdover said:
its not a faulty anaogy, its not even an analogy. Isreal did bomb apartment buildings with civilians in them and justified it because bad guys were there, they even bombed a refugee camp because some bad guys were there.

I dont understand why you would defend the war crimes of another nation. its beyond me . its immoral. I wouldnt defend the war crimes of our own soldiers. what kind of men are you? who am I even talking with?

Because no media release is ever manipulated…..ever.

If you have a factual account I’d love to see read it. Everything released from that area of the world is facilitated and staged for effect (both side obtw). In the case of most “reports” I would need to be on site at this point and see.

Do you believe all the accounts of Iran reports? And at the same time do you note the lack of reporting of Iranian civilians cut down by Imported Iranian proxies?

Gaza reporting accuracy has been shown to be manipulated and staged by several international independent sources. You just have to search. If your government (Hamas, voted in 2005, zero follow on elections) purposely uses the populace for cover and concealment; yes there is risk involved. That risk is win/win for Hamas as it is protection and a story to be made later with the right facilitation.

holdover · Jul 10, 2026

Pale Rider said:
Do you really want to assert that Israel has not been the victim of attack from Syria, Lebanon or Iran?

lol, which came first the chicken or the egg. there are LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOg running arguments about who did what to who first

This is a an argument that can and will go on forever, Im not an expert in middle eastern history. and Im not going to take part in it , trust me it goes back as far as you want to look . great arguments can be made for either side . Im not going there.

But last September Isreal and the US did launch a surprise attack against Iran during negotiations . so no, you cant

play the victim card with Iran. Israel started that war.

holdover · Jul 10, 2026

Brawny71 said:
Because no media release is ever manipulated…..ever.

If you have a factual account I’d love to see read it. Everything released from that area of the world is facilitated and staged for effect (both side obtw). In the case of most “reports” I would need to be on site at this point and see.

Do you believe all the accounts of Iran reports? And at the same time do you note the lack of reporting of Iranian civilians cut down by Imported Iranian proxies?

Gaza reporting accuracy has been shown to be manipulated and staged by several international independent sources. You just have to search. If your government (Hamas, voted in 2005, zero follow on elections) purposely uses the populace for cover and concealment; yes there is risk involved. That risk is win/win for Hamas as it is protection and a story to be made later with the right facilitation.

the media is manipulated all the time thats why you never hear of Israels illegal killings . ever notice how one sided the press is when it comes to israel? thats peculiar isnt it? or all of Israel has halos , gods people exempt from being evil .

You must live in a closet , Israel is up on war crimes at the UN. where the hell do you live? Your gonna say the war is total CGI the isralie are

incapable of wrong doing? Its all over the internet for christs sake tens of thousands of civilians have been killed by Israli hands and American weapons and you sick fucks all support it .

Amnesty International concludes Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza

Amnesty International’s research has found sufficient basis to conclude that Israel has committed and is continuing to commit genocide against Palestinians in the occupied Gaza Strip.

www.amnesty.org

Amnesty International

Israel/OPT: Israel’s systematic destruction of high-rise buildings must be investigated as war crimes of wanton destruction and collective punishment

Israel’s unlawful and wanton destruction of civilian high-rise buildings continues to have devastating consequences for displaced Palestinian families in the occupied Gaza Strip, where reconstruction remains a distant dream amid ongoing genocide and air strikes despite the October 2025 so-called...

www.amnesty.org

Israel demolishes high-rise building in Gaza City as part of ramped-up offensive

Israel has struck and destroyed another high-rise building in Gaza City after warning residents to evacuate as part of an offensive aimed at taking over the largest Palestinian city.

www.pbs.org

Israel bombs third Gaza City residential high-rise in as many days

Witnesses confirm tower was destroyed. Hospital says one person killed, in addition to the 14 killed in overnight air strikes

www.theguardian.com

US STATE DEPT:

Technical Difficulties

2) With respect to Hamas in Gaza: unlawful killings; disappearances; severe physical abuses and cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment or punishment by Hamas; unjust detentions; serious problems with the independence of the judiciary; political prisoners or detainees; unlawful interference with privacy; punishment of family members for alleged offenses by a relative; serious abuses in a conflict, including reportedly unlawful or widespread civilian deaths or harm, disappearances or abductions, physical abuses, conflict-related sexual violence or punishment; unlawful recruitment or use of children in armed conflict; serious restrictions on freedom of expression and media freedom, including violence or threats of violence against journalists, unjustified detentions of journalists, and censorship; serious restrictions on internet freedom; substantial interference with the freedom of peaceful assembly and freedom of association, including overly restrictive limitations on the organization, funding, or operation of nongovernmental and civil society organizations; inability of citizens to change governance peacefully through free and fair elections; serious and unreasonable restrictions on political participation; serious widespread corruption; serious restrictions on or harassment of domestic and international human rights organizations; extensive gender-based violence; crimes involving violence or threats of violence motivated by antisemitism; crimes involving violence or threats of violence targeting lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, or intersex persons; and existence of the worst forms of child labor.

Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, and Other Related Abuses

PA law prohibited torture or use of force against detainees, but international and local human rights groups reported that torture and abuse remained a problem, and the PA had yet to establish a protocol for preventing torture. The ICHR reported receiving 92 complaints of torture or mistreatment against the PA and 86 complaints against Hamas during the first six months of the year.

holdover · Jul 10, 2026

Obviously, Im barking up the wrong tree here. i thought this forum was made up of patriotic Americans that cared about our own . Appears I was wrong. I dont want to spend hours and hours and hours verifying reports everyone should have known about if they were even following the conflict to begin with. Its to exhausting. I got shit to do. I dont want to argue with people which contest every comma and period . I would say to do your own due diligence but it seems nobody wants to . so you believe what you want . the world isnt perfect evil exists. and if your to stupid or biased to see it , thats on you . Im outta here

Pale Rider · Jul 10, 2026

holdover said:
Obviously, Im barking up the wrong tree here. i thought this forum was made up of patriotic Americans that cared about our own . Appears I was wrong. I dont want to spend hours and hours and hours verifying reports everyone should have known about if they were even following the conflict to begin with. Its to exhausting. I got shit to do. I dont want to argue with people which contest every comma and period . I would say to do your own due diligence but it seems nobody wants to . so you believe what you want . the world isnt perfect evil exists. and if your to stupid or biased to see it , thats on you . Im outta here

Goodbye

Zerex · Jul 11, 2026

Gazonians attacked Israel, and now must die. They will not stop.

In Iran Israel used exploding pagers, and precision missiles that targeted certain apt windows, of Nuke Scientists.

But in Gazonian land, all are enemies..not Souix................. I loved the early days of the war when the IDF flooded the Hamas tunnels with special "substances"............

You love Gazonians, or just hate Jews on general principal?

You must love the Ayatollah #3, who says he wants to kill Trump.

Defilade · Jul 13, 2026

Whoever wants to defend this is far from MAGA. You are an empty vessel who doesn't give a shit about your Country.

Zerex · Jul 14, 2026

Egypt cannot attack Israel and hope to survive, as it has been defeated twice by Israel.
Think recent Iran hits by Israel that took out the A-man #2, exploding pagers and more muslim corrective actions.

Egypt did give up ownership of Gaza as it was a sewer that Egypt just could not control.
Israel gave it up too.

No ME country wants anything to do with the Gazonians or the Iranians.

That you support Egypt, Hamas;/Gaza is clear..................next step for you is joining Islam.

I am MAGA just not an isolationist/sovereign citizen. Trumps decisions echo most of my opinions.

spat · Jul 14, 2026

holdover said:
lol, which came first the chicken or the egg. there are LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOg running arguments about who did what to who first

This is a an argument that can and will go on forever, Im not an expert in middle eastern history. and Im not going to take part in it , trust me it goes back as far as you want to look . great arguments can be made for either side . Im not going there.

But last September Isreal and the US did launch a surprise attack against Iran during negotiations . so no, you cant

play the victim card with Iran. Israel started that war.

Literally the entire world knew Midnight Hammer was coming and could have nailed down the timeframe within a couple weeks. That is the least surprising surprise attack in the history of warfare.

Go ahead and look at the thread on this forum where *everyone* knew it was coming.

spat · Jul 14, 2026

holdover said:
Obviously, Im barking up the wrong tree here. i thought this forum was made up of patriotic Americans that cared about our own . Appears I was wrong. I dont want to spend hours and hours and hours verifying reports everyone should have known about if they were even following the conflict to begin with. Its to exhausting. I got shit to do. I dont want to argue with people which contest every comma and period . I would say to do your own due diligence but it seems nobody wants to . so you believe what you want . the world isnt perfect evil exists. and if your to stupid or biased to see it , thats on you . Im outta here

We do.

That's why we don't swallow every piece of propaganda released by America's enemies to try to weaken our alliances.

But, I guess useful idiots are going to idiot, so you just have to accept it.

spat · Jul 14, 2026

holdover said:
the media is manipulated all the time thats why you never hear of Israels illegal killings . ever notice how one sided the press is when it comes to israel? thats peculiar isnt it? or all of Israel has halos , gods people exempt from being evil .

You must live in a closet , Israel is up on war crimes at the UN. where the hell do you live? Your gonna say the war is total CGI the isralie are

incapable of wrong doing? Its all over the internet for christs sake tens of thousands of civilians have been killed by Israli hands and American weapons and you sick fucks all support it .

Amnesty International concludes Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza

Amnesty International’s research has found sufficient basis to conclude that Israel has committed and is continuing to commit genocide against Palestinians in the occupied Gaza Strip.

www.amnesty.org

Amnesty International

Israel/OPT: Israel’s systematic destruction of high-rise buildings must be investigated as war crimes of wanton destruction and collective punishment

Israel’s unlawful and wanton destruction of civilian high-rise buildings continues to have devastating consequences for displaced Palestinian families in the occupied Gaza Strip, where reconstruction remains a distant dream amid ongoing genocide and air strikes despite the October 2025 so-called...

www.amnesty.org

Israel demolishes high-rise building in Gaza City as part of ramped-up offensive

Israel has struck and destroyed another high-rise building in Gaza City after warning residents to evacuate as part of an offensive aimed at taking over the largest Palestinian city.

www.pbs.org

Israel bombs third Gaza City residential high-rise in as many days

Witnesses confirm tower was destroyed. Hospital says one person killed, in addition to the 14 killed in overnight air strikes

www.theguardian.com

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US STATE DEPT:

Technical Difficulties
2) With respect to Hamas in Gaza: unlawful killings; disappearances; severe physical abuses and cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment or punishment by Hamas; unjust detentions; serious problems with the independence of the judiciary; political prisoners or detainees; unlawful interference with privacy; punishment of family members for alleged offenses by a relative; serious abuses in a conflict, including reportedly unlawful or widespread civilian deaths or harm, disappearances or abductions, physical abuses, conflict-related sexual violence or punishment; unlawful recruitment or use of children in armed conflict; serious restrictions on freedom of expression and media freedom, including violence or threats of violence against journalists, unjustified detentions of journalists, and censorship; serious restrictions on internet freedom; substantial interference with the freedom of peaceful assembly and freedom of association, including overly restrictive limitations on the organization, funding, or operation of nongovernmental and civil society organizations; inability of citizens to change governance peacefully through free and fair elections; serious and unreasonable restrictions on political participation; serious widespread corruption; serious restrictions on or harassment of domestic and international human rights organizations; extensive gender-based violence; crimes involving violence or threats of violence motivated by antisemitism; crimes involving violence or threats of violence targeting lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, or intersex persons; and existence of the worst forms of child labor.

Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, and Other Related Abuses
PA law prohibited torture or use of force against detainees, but international and local human rights groups reported that torture and abuse remained a problem, and the PA had yet to establish a protocol for preventing torture. The ICHR reported receiving 92 complaints of torture or mistreatment against the PA and 86 complaints against Hamas during the first six months of the year.

Claims the press doesn't cover Isreali attacks on Gaza. As evidence he links to a dozen articles doing just that.

What percentage of the Gazan attacks on Isreal do you hear about ?

The left (which is most of the media) *hate* Isreal as much as you do. If the IDF pops a suicide bomber before he can reach the crowded market the headlines read "palestinian choir boy on his way to practice murdered..."

You side with America's enemies every time, don't call yourself America first, it's laughable.

holdover · Jul 14, 2026

as usual, your full of shit . according to you, nobody even died in Gaza. cant be proven, never happened .

If i were to post images of gaza before and after, you would just claim the photos are fake the bodys are fake the casualties are fake.

You would dismiss every reference as fake, its impossible to argue . its a pointless conversation.

You just continue to run interference for a foreign government .

holdover · Jul 14, 2026

spat said:
You side with America's enemies every time, don't call yourself America first, it's laughable.

My ass. I have to be pro Israel to be America first? double speak again

holdover · Jul 14, 2026

spat said:
Claims the press doesn't cover Isreali attacks on Gaza. As evidence he links to a dozen articles doing just that.

not the main stream I didnt . fox , CNN rarely say anything negative about Israel

holdover · Jul 14, 2026

spat said:
What percentage of the Gazan attacks on Isreal do you hear about ?

since the war started? not to much, before the war? all the fucking time .

Mainly because they used up much of what they had, some was detroyed by Isreal , the blockade prevented much of the components needed , so no, not a whole lot now.

holdover · Jul 14, 2026

spat said:
The left (which is most of the media) *hate* Isreal as much as you do. If the IDF pops a suicide bomber before he can reach the crowded market the headlines read "palestinian choir boy on his way to practice murdered..."

but bombing refugee camps and stopping food from coming in never happened right?

Israeli-American ties, good or bad? Somewhere in between?

.44 mag

.475 A&M Magnum

.475 A&M Magnum

1 Samuel 15:3​

​

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”​

Netanyahu's Horrifying Biblical Link: Amalek and Gaza​

​

​

​

20×102mm Vulcan

20×102mm Vulcan

.950 JDJ

.475 A&M Magnum

.44 mag

.475 A&M Magnum

.308 Win

.44 mag

.950 JDJ

.44 mag

.223 Rem

.223 Rem

.475 A&M Magnum

.475 A&M Magnum

Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, and Other Related Abuses​

.475 A&M Magnum

.44 mag

.308 Win

.700 Nitro Express

.308 Win

.950 JDJ

.950 JDJ

.950 JDJ

Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, and Other Related Abuses​

.475 A&M Magnum

.475 A&M Magnum

.475 A&M Magnum

.475 A&M Magnum

.475 A&M Magnum

1 Samuel 15:3

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

Netanyahu's Horrifying Biblical Link: Amalek and Gaza

Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, and Other Related Abuses

Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, and Other Related Abuses