Recommendations for a CCW that is 9mm, 10 rd capacity, but very compact and easy to hide.

[OnSight Firearms Training]

If you are disciplined enough to always carry that gun it's a better solution.

If you are prone to say "I'm just working in the yard, I won't bother". Then "well, I just need run to the store quick, I'm not going back inside to arm up". Then you're better off with something like the LCP you just drop in your pocket every time you put on pants.


An LCP in your pocket beats anything sitting in your safe if SHTF.

Interesting enough,.... we did a few mock scenarios. Guy with a gun in his pocket, unloaded/chamber flag, etc.
Person 15 yards away. Hit the "Beep", guy couldn't get the gun out of the pocket in time to avoid being "touched" with the fake knife.
Had several others try it, same result. Panic, stress, people who do not bother to take training classes on a regular basis, all failed. Set up their CCW based on an "opinion of how their self defense scenario will play out".

Did the same scenario with a guy who insisted his "ankle carry" was perfect for him. HE caught a knee to the chest while he was bent down struggling with his pant leg, from an attacker who started 15 yards away.

Different scenario, Glock 19 or 17 airsoft gun in appendix carry, 15 yards, same thing, attacker runs towards and gets shot every time within 7 yards.

Point of it is, given the option, I'll take a proper gun with 10 rounds (11 really) over a limited capacity pocket gun that you have dig to find, or an "ankle rig" you have to bend down to get to.

If you had to choose, active shooter situation in a crowded place, tiny pocket gun or mid to full size? I'd prefer the bigger gun. Pocket guns, Glock 43, Sig365, etc. I'll take a back up gun only.

Just my opinion, but what the hell do I know.

 

[OnSight Firearms Training]

 

[Edwardteach72]

I prefer to carry the gun I shoot the best.
When/If the time needs it, I'd rather have that. When my life, or the life of someone else depends on it, I'd rather have the gun I shoot best.

So for the past two years I have been carry a bigger gun. Full size. With the right holster, you can conceal a bigger gun.

given the option, I'll take a proper gun with 10 rounds (11 really) over a limited capacity pocket gun that you have dig to find, or an "ankle rig" you have to bend down to get to.

If you had to choose, active shooter situation in a crowded place, tiny pocket gun or mid to full size? I'd prefer the bigger gun. Pocket guns, Glock 43, Sig365, etc. I'll take a back up gun only.

Just my opinion, but what the hell do I know.

Whenever people give me shit or try and ask why I would carry a G34 when I'm handicapped to 10 round mags.

Had a buddy buy a G43 for his first gun, its all he shot. He didn't mind it, but wasn't a fan. He bought a VP9 and loved shooting that, he chalked it up to HK is better than glock.. we went to the range and I let him shoot my G17.. he was blown away how much more enjoyable it was than his G43

 

[OnSight Firearms Training]

we went to the range and I let him shoot my G17.. he was blown away how much more enjoyable it was than his G43

EVERY. TIME.

Tonight's class is case in point.
Tuesday call in Honesdale, same thing.
Classes Sat & Sun last weekend, same thing.

 

[Dunedain Ranger]

Springfield Armory Inc does not make any of the XD guns or the hellcat. You are just paying something like a 300% markup for a gun that was barely considered subpar at its pre SAI imported price and is honestly garbage compared to any other comparable gun that other companies would market as "duty" grade.

As for the hellcat I don't even care to see how it's holding up (also not made by Springfield Armory Inc) because SAI is just a garbage company to begin with... fuck them

Info appreciated, and duly noted. Receiving a great pointer like you now made me aware of concerning Springfield is why i posted my question here. I had no idea they were a "bate n switch" company like that. Good looks.

The G26 is starting to become a contender, now. Its between that, the Sig 365, a MP 2.0 shield, and maybe a few others, lol.

 

[OnSight Firearms Training]

The G26 is starting to become a contender, now. Its between that, the Sig 365, a MP 2.0 shield, and maybe a few others, lol.

Try the Glock 48 before committing to the 26.

 

[Edwardteach72]

EVERY. TIME.

Tonight's class is case in point.
Tuesday call in Honesdale, same thing.
Classes Sat & Sun last weekend, same thing.

I remember taking your lowlights workshop.. same principle applies to handheld ligths. While my streamlight protac whatever (500 lumen) is a decent handheld but going up just a little in size with a modlite (PLHv2 head) gives me substantially more capabilities

 

[OnSight Firearms Training]

I remember taking your lowlights workshop.. same principle applies to handheld ligths. While my streamlight protac whatever (500 lumen) is a decent handheld but going up just a little in size with a modlite (PLHv2 head) gives me substantially more capabilities

 

[Edwardteach72]

Info appreciated, and duly noted. Receiving a great pointer like you now made me aware of concerning Springfield is why i posted my question here. I had no idea they were a "bate n switch" company like that. Good looks.

The G26 is starting to become a contender, now. Its between that, the Sig 365, a MP 2.0 shield, and maybe a few others, lol.

I'll probably be the most vocal against SAI on this forum (I should also point out XD line of guns will have a substantially higher chance of catastrophic failures than other brands in the same price range.. ie glock, Smith, sig, HK (vp line) and such)

 

[OnSight Firearms Training]

I'll probably be the most vocal against SAI on this forum (I should also point out XD line of guns will have a substantially higher chance of catastrophic failures than other brands in the same price range.. ie glock, Smith, sig, HK (vp line) and such)

XDs and Hellcats all have a special place..... in the trash.

 

[Edwardteach72]

XDs and Hellcats all have a special place..... in the trash.

While the HS VHS-2 is pretty interesting and brings some things to the table, and is somewhat battle tested... all other HS products just need to stop being made and sold

But I digress..


OP for funzzies how about checking out a CZ P-10m or the CZ rami

 

[OnSight Firearms Training]

While the HS VHS-2 is pretty interesting and brings some things to the table, and is somewhat battle tested... all other HS products just need to stop being made and sold

We need to hang out more often.

 

[Edwardteach72]

While the HS VHS-2 is pretty interesting and brings some things to the table, and is somewhat battle tested... all other HS products just need to stop being made and sold

But I digress..


OP for funzzies how about checking out a CZ P-10m or the CZ rami

Sorry not the m cause that's some stupid single stack 8 round or whatever...

The P10s(?)

F - full size
C - compact
S - subcompact.. ok yea the P10s

 

[spat]

Interesting enough,.... we did a few mock scenarios. Guy with a gun in his pocket, unloaded/chamber flag, etc.
Person 15 yards away. Hit the "Beep", guy couldn't get the gun out of the pocket in time to avoid being "touched" with the fake knife.
Had several others try it, same result. Panic, stress, people who do not bother to take training classes on a regular basis, all failed. Set up their CCW based on an "opinion of how their self defense scenario will play out".

Did the same scenario with a guy who insisted his "ankle carry" was perfect for him. HE caught a knee to the chest while he was bent down struggling with his pant leg, from an attacker who started 15 yards away.

Different scenario, Glock 19 or 17 airsoft gun in appendix carry, 15 yards, same thing, attacker runs towards and gets shot every time within 7 yards.

Point of it is, given the option, I'll take a proper gun with 10 rounds (11 really) over a limited capacity pocket gun that you have dig to find, or an "ankle rig" you have to bend down to get to.

If you had to choose, active shooter situation in a crowded place, tiny pocket gun or mid to full size? I'd prefer the bigger gun. Pocket guns, Glock 43, Sig365, etc. I'll take a back up gun only.

Just my opinion, but what the hell do I know.

You're right of course, a full size pistol will beat a pocket pistol every time. Just like a good carbine is better than the pistol.

But that is not the comparison I'm talking about.

Compare your guy with the pocket gun to the guy who left his full size home and you'll see that pocket gun beats the full size in the night stand every time.

I used to carry a G26 IWB in alien gear. Not a full size, but probably close enough to not matter in a 10rd limited state like NY.

But, I didn't always bother putting on the holster, etc..., so I found myself not always carrying every time I left the house.


Now I have an LCPII that sits in a pocket holster on my night stand. It goes in my pocket every time I get dressed.

Certainly I can draw the G26 from the alien gear faster, and I can shoot it better than the LCP. But that won't matter if it's still sitting in the night stand when the LCP is in my pocket.

Drawing from a pocket holster is a different thing than a normal holster. It will certainly never be as quick as an IWB, but that won't be as fast as a drop leg holster either.


None of us carry the best gun for an incident. If that was the case I'd be running around with a slung AR or PS90 or something all the time.

So, any pistol is a compromise. The only question is what compromise is best for you.

I have a very low risk lifestyle. Not zero, but very low risk. If that changed, I might start carrying the G26 more often. I haven't left my property in days, but the LCP is in my pocket right now. The G26 is sitting in a safe. Sure, it takes less than a minute to holster up for the G26. That's still probably 10x as long as it takes to drop the LCP in one pocket and a spare mag in the other.

I will say, if you do pocket carry, you need to practice the draw. A lot. You'll never get it down to IWB smoothness, but you can get it much better than you will be initially. The draw can reduced to muscle memory pretty smooth. Reholstering not so much LOL.

 

[OnSight Firearms Training]

None of us carry the best gun for an incident. If that was the case I'd be running around with a slung AR or PS90 or something all the time.

I'll take the slung AK
I love ARs, but have refound an appreciation for the AK/AK Variants. AK class coming up soon for sure.

 

[Edwardteach72]

@spat just skimmed your comment..

Trying to compare a G26 to a full size with cuck 10 round mag.. is a bit disingenuous. Just because guns hold the same amount of ammo doesn't make them similar.

I'll take my pick between my G45/17/34 over a G26 any day. Hell I hate the G19 grip (the hump issue with my hand) but I'd take one of those over a 26 as well. The facts that more leverage of a full size grip will always beat out 2 finger grips for recoil mitigation

 

[Edwardteach72]

I'll take the slung AK
I love ARs, but have refound an appreciation for the AK/AK Variants. AK class coming up soon for sure.

Not to derail yet again.. @Podmonkey's galil count? Lol

 

[spat]

I'll take the slung AK
I love ARs, but have refound an appreciation for the AK/AK Variants. AK class coming up soon for sure.

When I moved out of NY the first thing I did was get a PS90. Always wanted one.

In that scenerio, that's what I would carry.

I have ARs and AKs, but inside of 2-300 yards I like the PS90 best.

 

[Edwardteach72]

First sentence from their product page:
VHS-2 is a fully ambidextrous 5.56 NATO caliber assault rifle.

Lost me right there..............................................................^^^

Why? Because you don't know proper terminology? Sucks to suck

 

[Dunedain Ranger]

I don't own a P365, but I did rent one at the range while shopping for my EDC. I ended up with the 43X . I too have small hands and found the slide stop release on the Sig took too much effort and altering my grip to get to. The trigger was good, nothing horrible nor fantastic. The limiting ergonomic factor for me is due to stubby thumbs. I also did better shooting the Glock than the Sig. I do wish I had looked into the Shield a bit more. I'd like to try one in .45 ACP.

Are you just in a buying mood or do your current pistols just not suit your EDC needs?

Good question. I Like my Ruger EC9, but for some reason i dont shoot it as accurate as i do my other smaller pistols. My Taurus G2C, while i am dead on with it, i feel its a little too big, at least for the specifics i m looking for w compactness, ease of conceal, or throwing in my pocket. I LOVE my Walther PPK, its perfect for what i am looking for with this specific purchase, but its not 9mm.

Also, i recently purchased a CCW Jacket from Scottevest and i m literally looking to fit a pistol just for this jacket. I do that a lot actually. My plethora of firearms are "fitted" for many different roles, purposes, situations, and specific items. Like i have Henry AR 7s for my bug out bags. I have an M&P AR15 as my "beater" AR. My LWRC AR 15 is my premium range shooter. My Sig Sauer AR is for home defense. I have a Kel Tec SU16B just for 1 backpack that it folds perfectly into. I have revolvers for premium felt lined, wooden cases. I have some guns solely for my target practice on, and at my upstate property, where i have my own outdoor range.

I like certain firearms for certain reasons and situations. Thats why when others here have said, "You should get a bigger pistol that you can still conceal, but bigger is better". I totally agree, and i HAVE those already. I am specifically looking for a small, pocket, easy to conceal, 9mm with 10 rd mags, oh and for my new jacket, lmao.

More importantly though, i have 2 pistol permits that are burning a hole in my pocket, and i will NOT let expire, lol.

 

[spat]

@spat just skimmed your comment..

Trying to compare a G26 to a full size with cuck 10 round mag.. is a bit disingenuous. Just because guns hold the same amount of ammo doesn't make them similar.

I'll take my pick between my G45/17/34 over a G26 any day. Hell I hate the G19 grip (the hump issue with my hand) but I'd take one of those over a 26 as well. The facts that more leverage of a full size grip will always beat out 2 finger grips for recoil mitigation

I have a G19 mag with a spacer for my G26. That gives you a full size grip. About all you get from going full size after that is a bit more sight radius and a little less recoil. For a gun that I'm going to carry for 10s of thousands of hours and hopefully never have to shoot, I'll take that compromise.

I am plenty fast and accurate with the G26 up to 15 yards. Sure, I would be better with a full size, but not enough to be worth lugging around twice as much gun all day every day.

Like I said before, any pistol is a compromise. It's all a balance between easy of carry and speed and accuracy. If you're not willing to sacrifice some speed and accuracy for ease of carry then what are you doing carrying a pistol at all.

 

[Edwardteach72]

My mistake, didn't read far enough to see it wasn't just a civilian marketed rifle. Lesson learned.

Acceptable response.. cheers

Oh and the reason I mentioned the HS VHS-2 and not the sPrIngFiElD hElLiOn is because fuck SAI

 

[Uzi]

I don't think it's any surprise that larger pistols are more pleasant to shoot and easier to control if you don't have baby sized hands. It's the practical side of concealing the gun (which it's NOT designed for) that is the issue for many. Some fatties and chubby out of shape dudes will tell you it works just fine for them, as their body fat rolls over or presses into the pistol like play dough, limiting the printing on full size grips and big sidecar holsters with flash lights, shurikens and the tacticool medkit. They can no longer run a mile, but they can at least conceal the shit out of stuff while sitting at a computer at work.

Then there are the average sized/height + healthier fitter men out there that have things like demanding jobs and lifestyles that don't facilitate concealment with massive duty and competition sized pistols inside the waist band. They realize a glock 19 will shoot pretty much just like a 17 with little to no disadvantage, (especially in NY) so they do that. They just don't have the extra belly fat to swallow those big guns up.

 

[spat]

I don't think it's any surprise that larger pistols are more pleasant to shoot and easier to control if you don't have baby sized hands. It's the practical side of concealing the gun (which it's NOT designed for) that is the issue for many. Some fatties and chubby out of shape dudes will tell you it works just fine for them, as their body fat rolls over or presses into the pistol like play dough, limiting the printing on full size grips and big sidecar holsters with flash lights, shurikens and the tacticool medkit. They can no longer run a mile, but they can at least conceal the shit out of stuff while sitting at a computer at work.

Then there are the average sized/height + healthier fitter men out there that have things like demanding jobs and lifestyles that don't facilitate concealment with massive duty and competition sized pistols inside the waist band. They realize a glock 19 will shoot pretty much just like a 17 with little to no disadvantage, (especially in NY) so they do that. They just don't have the extra belly fat to swallow those big guns up.

Some carry an LCP because it's the smallest thing that has enough power to not be a toy.

Others carry a BFR in 45-70 and just hope all the assailants stand in a line.


"I may not be able to run 100 yards, but my carry gun is an M134, so I don't need to...."

 

[Podmonkey]

Not to derail yet again.. @Podmonkey's galil count? Lol

Been there, done that. Took both big bro a little bro Galil to two different classes of Ben's. He found big bro amusing it seems, all that muzzle blast. It did really well though. That aside despite the Galil being a Kalashnikov pattern the way the controls are laid out means it doesn't really handle like a traditional AK, nor does it handle like an AR. Control layout, left side reciprocating charging handle especially, is more like a SCAR than anything.

@OnSight Firearms Training, oh all you professional guys poo-poo the micro guns. I'll just say this, I didn't like the P365 under fire all that much but I can shoot my Shield Plus as well as my Glock 19, as well as my P320 full size and I can conceal it totally under just a button up shirt. That is critically important for me, I carry every night, against company policy and in........ *ahem* "non-permissive areas". At least in PA ignoring no gun signs is not a crime. And as you know I am a trucker, I use public restrooms multiple times daily and a shoulder rig is really the only way to go in those conditions and the Shield Plus works fantastic in a Galco Miami Classic Lite rig for me. I shoot the Shield decently well, 10+1 124gr +p HSTs is nothing to sneeze at and I have two 13 round reloads on deck to boot. I actually, honestly really enjoy shooting my Shield. Or I did when I had money for ammo and a range to shoot at. Regardless I am comfortable with the S&W product and I also cast a vote for it here. For what that's worth.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Info appreciated, and duly noted. Receiving a great pointer like you now made me aware of concerning Springfield is why i posted my question here. I had no idea they were a "bate n switch" company like that. Good looks.

The G26 is starting to become a contender, now. Its between that, the Sig 365, a MP 2.0 shield, and maybe a few others, lol.

You may see random hate to SA from time to time.

In case you didn't know Springfield armory donated money to anti gun causes and politicians.

Why Is Everyone Boycotting Springfield Armory?

The gun community felt betrayed by Springfield Armory's supposed deal with the IFMA. Let's look at that now that things have changed.

gunstoday.com

 

[Dr. Evil]

Interesting enough,.... we did a few mock scenarios. Guy with a gun in his pocket, unloaded/chamber flag, etc.
Person 15 yards away. Hit the "Beep", guy couldn't get the gun out of the pocket in time to avoid being "touched" with the fake knife.
Had several others try it, same result. Panic, stress, people who do not bother to take training classes on a regular basis, all failed. Set up their CCW based on an "opinion of how their self defense scenario will play out".

Did the same scenario with a guy who insisted his "ankle carry" was perfect for him. HE caught a knee to the chest while he was bent down struggling with his pant leg, from an attacker who started 15 yards away.

Different scenario, Glock 19 or 17 airsoft gun in appendix carry, 15 yards, same thing, attacker runs towards and gets shot every time within 7 yards.

Point of it is, given the option, I'll take a proper gun with 10 rounds (11 really) over a limited capacity pocket gun that you have dig to find, or an "ankle rig" you have to bend down to get to.

If you had to choose, active shooter situation in a crowded place, tiny pocket gun or mid to full size? I'd prefer the bigger gun. Pocket guns, Glock 43, Sig365, etc. I'll take a back up gun only.

Just my opinion, but what the hell do I know.

Two very big takeaway's from last nights class:

1. Would never carry any other way but appendix. Glad I switched to that position years ago.
2. I want the gun that gives me the best chance of hitting my target accurately and my target ONLY while still being able to conceal and feels good in my hand.

Everything else is just noise.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Two very big takeaway's from last nights class:

1. Would never carry any other way but appendix. Glad I switched to that position years ago.
2. I want the gun that gives me the best chance of hitting my target accurately and my target ONLY while still being able to conceal and feels good in my hand.

Everything else is just noise.

What did you find were the drawbacks of carrying between 2-3:00 oclock?

 

[Celt]

Took another class with @OnSight Firearms Training tonight. Learned a very valuable lesson. Get the biggest gun you can carry. I recently purchased a Glock 43X MOS because it felt really good in my hand and is pretty easy for me to conceal. At the class tonight I was able to shoot more accurately with Rachels gun, a Walther PDP F Series. I even did better with a G19. Now, it isn't like I won't be able to shoot the 43X MOS well with practice but there is a much bigger learning curve IMHO with a smaller gun. Instead of buying something solely based on feel and concealability I should have gone with a bigger heavier gun that still felt good and would be concealable. My 2 cents FWIW. Hey @Celt, I might have a G43X MOS if you are interested.

Thats 100% true, and I recently ordered a nice aiwb for my glock 34 because I shoot that better than my 19, or 43. There are times I prefer to carry the smaller gun which is mostly with lighter weight t shirts and shorts, so they do have their place, but heavier guns absorb more recoil, and a longer sight radius is always a plus.

 

[Dr. Evil]

What did you find were the drawbacks of carrying between 2-3:00 oclock?

Well, since I'm a lefty I never carried between there but I did initially around 8:00. First, AIWB for me is much quicker to the gun therefore to drawing, dot on target and shooting. Also IMHO it is easier for me to secure my firearm in the front of my body where I have the ability to protect it better. Lastly I am able to conceal a bigger gun better in front than at 8.