Should We Blindly Support the Police?

[Truebeliever]

So you bring up this? This has nothing to do with the permits or permission to be there since I’m sure antifa didn’t have a permit and yet they were allowed to stay there right? After all atria is just a thought and not an organization right so how could they apply for a permit.

I get what you are saying but the way things are going is this can be taken way too far and the conservative permits can and will be denied. Also then what constitutes a gathering where a permit is needed? Two guys walking down the street with progun shirts? A group of military guys at a bar with with conservative gear on.
I’m sure you’ll say we’re not there and we won’t be there and I hope you’re right, but I never thought we would be where we are as fast as we are today. The rate that they are claiming all these groups are domestic terrorists is frightening. Soon anything against the all liberal controlled government will be domestic terrorism and we’re heading there fast.
Things failed because Obama, Biden, and other liberal politicians have trashed the cops and people have said fuck the cops authority. The only reason you can and ever have been able to maintain any semblance of order is because people respect your authority. Take my town there are 17,000 residence and 27 cops. Cops are always outnumbered by huge odds and the respect for them is all that prevents the police from being overrun at every protest. The liberals are eroding that and you should fight that not fight for us needing a permit.

Yep. Antifa usually does not get permits and they are tolerated because of certain politicians. But in other areas and times , they are not tolerated . The G7/8 meetings for example .
The parade permit system works to balance the rights of everyone. Think about it. Two or more groups want to protest. Who has the right of way. Or they bring in too many people for the interstructure to handle and people who just want to get home can’t. The permit system protects rights of others.

 

[Truebeliever]

Well said and thanks for saying it. I can see you get it.
My problem is the police are losing the support of people like you and I who support the police to appease people that will never support the police. As you point out later on in the thread look at the difference in reaction between the violent BLM riots and the peaceful trucker protests. Again thanks for saying this.

The police aren’t taking sides. It’s the politicans who are and protest leaders who make propaganda video like the one posted above in a previous post. People are too easily falling for that stuff and blame the police.

 

[spat]

Yep. And back in the day when police wouldn’t arrest people for it you would read about fatal accidents where the driver had his license suspended over a 100 times. Ad if the police caught him speeding or something, they would just give him another ticket he would never pay.

Almost like having the government require permission slips is useless isn't it.

 

[spat]

The police aren’t taking sides. It’s the politicans who are and protest leaders who make propaganda video like the one posted above in a previous post. People are too easily falling for that stuff and blame the police.

When the politicians take sides, and the police follow their orders, then the police are taking sides.


When the orders are "let ANTIFA do whatever they want, but arrest anyone who tries to stop them" you either tell the guy giving those orders to go fuck himself, or you are taking his side.

 

[Big John]

Ok I will try to be brief, the short answer is no. That being said if the police are being used to violate the Constitutional rights afforded us BY the Constitution then NO. BUT you better have a Constitutional Lawyer on speed dial or a police agency that will not enforce laws that are in direct violation of the constitution because short of all out civil war with the GOVERNING body in question those and going to jail are your options.

 

[DoOver]

Suspending a license means nothing if the police aren't going to arrest you for driving without it.

An acquaintance Grampa, in his 80's, got pull over in his caddy on 1-88, 20 years ago now. Trooper asked for his license and Gramps said he never got one.
I do not know the rest of the story BUT I do know Gramps never stopped driving.


So there is that.

 

[Truebeliever]

Almost like having the government require permission slips is useless isn't it.

It was. I do remember only being able to give that person another ticket on top of the others he or she ignored. Then the policy changed. It became a “must arrest “ situation.
But that went to far. People get licenses suspended for things and don’t even know it. They change auto insurance and the insurance company screws up in notifying the DMV. Again, we don’t know why the suspension occurred when the arrest is made. Just how many suspensions on how many different dates ( your license can be suspended more than once on the same day or multiple times on multiple days).

 

[Truebeliever]

An acquaintance Grampa, in his 80's, got pull over in his caddy on 1-88, 20 years ago now. Trooper asked for his license and Gramps said he never got one.
I do not know the rest of the story BUT I do know Gramps never stopped driving.


So there is that.

He was protected by Father Time. Probably no one had the heart to arrest him.

 

[Truebeliever]

When the politicians take sides, and the police follow their orders, then the police are taking sides.


When the orders are "let ANTIFA do whatever they want, but arrest anyone who tries to stop them" you either tell the guy giving those orders to go fuck himself, or you are taking his side.

It’s not as simple as that. Both sides get arrested and the DA decisions are on them and out of the officers control . Okay, you disagree but what if they decided to prosecute Antifa and let the “prayer groups “ off the hook. Would you be saying the same thing? And it isn’t what you think. They let both sides off with a similar punishment except it hurts one group more because they care about having a record or actually have a job to lose.
The police can only maintain their neutrality as best they can. What the prosecutor does is their own thing in that regard. Now, if you are saying , only to investigate and arrest one side— you have good argument. That’s deliberate targeting by the police of one political group. That is different.

 

[Saltwater60]

Yep. Antifa usually does not get permits and they are tolerated because of certain politicians. But in other areas and times , they are not tolerated . The G7/8 meetings for example .
The parade permit system works to balance the rights of everyone. Think about it. Two or more groups want to protest. Who has the right of way. Or they bring in too many people for the interstructure to handle and people who just want to get home can’t. The permit system protects rights of others.

It clearly doesn’t work because we allowed them to take to the streets in huge numbers, block roadways, and take over municipal building and even a few blocks.
I also don’t believe for one second that the permit process is mean to say who has the right to be there if two groups show up. Give me one example of where the opposing side who didn’t get a permit was successfully told to leave.
Also the permit asks for an estimate of who will be there. If it goes “viral” on social media and 400x’s shows up do they cancel the permit and tell them to leave? No they don’t.

 

[Saltwater60]

The police aren’t taking sides. It’s the politicans who are and protest leaders who make propaganda video like the one posted above in a previous post. People are too easily falling for that stuff and blame the police.

Yes the police are taking sides. They refused to arrest those breaking the law in many circumstances when it was BLM and antifa doing the protesting. Who was arrested in the Rittenhouse situation? It wasn’t the aggressors or the guy that approached Kyle with a gun, it was Kyle. Also look at Portland they didn’t arrest those taking over city streets or attacking them. Yes I’m aware of the politicians role in this and the DA’s, but the job of a police officer is to arrest those breaking the law not the laws the politicians decide is acceptable to break or not.

 

[Saltwater60]

It’s not as simple as that. Both sides get arrested and the DA decisions are on them and out of the officers control . Okay, you disagree but what if they decided to prosecute Antifa and let the “prayer groups “ off the hook. Would you be saying the same thing? And it isn’t what you think. They let both sides off with a similar punishment except it hurts one group more because they care about having a record or actually have a job to lose.
The police can only maintain their neutrality as best they can. What the prosecutor does is their own thing in that regard. Now, if you are saying , only to investigate and arrest one side— you have good argument. That’s deliberate targeting by the police of one political group. That is different.

So let me ask you this, you don’t see a difference in how the law enforcement has handled antifa and BLM compared to 1/6/2021? One it’s let them break windows, turn over cars, and burn down buildings and the other it’s we will hunt everyone of these sons of bitches down. I’ll give it to you that the politicians have a part in this for sure, but again police officers arrest those breaking the law, but in 2020 we allowed the BLM riots to run amuck and police stood down. Do you not agree?

 

[Truebeliever]

It clearly doesn’t work because we allowed them to take to the streets in huge numbers, block roadways, and take over municipal building and even a few blocks.
I also don’t believe for one second that the permit process is mean to say who has the right to be there if two groups show up. Give me one example of where the opposing side who didn’t get a permit was successfully told to leave.
Also the permit asks for an estimate of who will be there. If it goes “viral” on social media and 400x’s shows up do they cancel the permit and tell them to leave? No they don’t.

That’s happening where?Where prosecutors let them off the hook like bail reform . Now , why isn’t that happening in certain areas of the country ? Outside of the Austin area or democrat DAs, it’s not happening in TX . Outside of Democrat DAs , it’s not happening in FL. It’s not happening where republicans are the DA of those counties for the most part. Go look it up.

 

[Truebeliever]

So let me ask you this, you don’t see a difference in how the law enforcement has handled antifa and BLM compared to 1/6/2021? One it’s let them break windows, turn over cars, and burn down buildings and the other it’s we will hunt everyone of these sons of bitches down. I’ll give it to you that the politicians have a part in this for sure, but again police officers arrest those breaking the law, but in 2020 we allowed the BLM riots to run amuck and police stood down. Do you not agree?

As far as police officers, there is a difference. The FBI aren’t cops. They aren’t on the front lines. Big difference.
Now, why did cops “ stand down”. Democrat leadership and a lack of vocal and visual support.

Some have claimed to support the police but support on a barstool or on this forum doesn’t do as much as that activist in the streets . It’s not real support. It’s like watching a commercial for a charity for staving people and saying “ that’s too bad” and say you support them and never send in the money.

 

[spat]

It’s not as simple as that. Both sides get arrested and the DA decisions are on them and out of the officers control . Okay, you disagree but what if they decided to prosecute Antifa and let the “prayer groups “ off the hook. Would you be saying the same thing? And it isn’t what you think. They let both sides off with a similar punishment except it hurts one group more because they care about having a record or actually have a job to lose.
The police can only maintain their neutrality as best they can. What the prosecutor does is their own thing in that regard. Now, if you are saying , only to investigate and arrest one side— you have good argument. That’s deliberate targeting by the police of one political group. That is different.

If you know the DA is corrupt, but you send people anyway, that's like the guy driving the train who knows what happens in the camps.


"I just transport them, not my fault what happens when they get there". Yes, it is your fault.

 

[spat]

As far as police officers, there is a difference. The FBI aren’t cops. They aren’t on the front lines. Big difference.
Now, why did cops “ stand down”. Democrat leadership and a lack of vocal and visual support.

Some have claimed to support the police but support on a barstool or on this forum doesn’t do as much as that activist in the streets . It’s not real support. It’s like watching a commercial for a charity for staving people and saying “ that’s too bad” and say you support them and never send in the money.

Why would anyone with half a brain support the cops in the street when they know the cops will do the leftist DA's bidding and arrest them for it ?

Face it, the left has decided all cops are their enemy, and the cops seem determined to convince the right that they are theirs too.

The days of being able to remain neutral are coming to an end.

 

[prambo]

Not necessarily my opinion... could be...

Defund the Police › American Greatness

 

[GOPerfect]

 

[FRB]

No of course we should not blindly support the police. There are MANY bad apples in the basket. Do you blindly eat apples from a basket? No you inspect each one.

 

[GOPerfect]

I first got into Law Enforcement in early 1990, I got out for a while, changed job titles and continued on a great career path. Got back into the game again in 2007.

In 2014, I was hired and joined the department that I am with now. I have never been a super cop nor do I claim to be. In all of those years are a Police officer, I wore many hats. I worked the roads, I was in supervisory roles and I did investigations. Nothing all that glamorous, but I was pretty good at what I did and what I currently do.

One thing I can say, I have never gone out of my way to trampled the Rights of the good people in which I served. Did I violate some Rights along the way? I sure did. But, what we are seeing now, especially in the larger cities with higher populations, is absolutely disgusting. Not sure where the fault lies exactly.

This problem with some of the bad policing is due to the individual officers as well as the commands. Much of the blame is on the elected elite and their decisions to live in their bubble. I also blame some of the citizens, they have made the job, in some cases impossible to do, so many good people decide not to take the job or to leave early. I know many that were hoping to stay on for many more years but decided to leave early and take a serious cut in their pensions.

District attorneys have made the job very difficult as well. They refuse to prosecute many crimes. Bail reform, pushed by many of these people has been a complete failure. Many of these DA jobs do not pay enough to attract the best lawyers so we are stuck with shitty ones.


The individual Police officer has many choices to make while working, some will make the correct decisions, others will not. I watched an officer (Video) a couple of days ago, use the butt stock of his rifle to crack a guy upside the head four times, the man was not actively resisting, he was not being helpful to the officers, but he was not fighting. His doctors are saying he has permanent brain damage. That officer used the butt stock on his own accord, he was not ordered to use that type of force, it was his choice and his choice alone.

I watched another video of an officer that trampled to death a woman using a walker. She put herself in harms way, but I do not believe that death was warranted by her actions.

Back to the people, there are many scum bag people that live among us. They are to blame for much of what is happening as well. Cops are fed up with much of the Bullshit. The disrespect, the in your face bullshit that many officers put up with, many are at a breaking point. There is enough blame to go around in this mistrust and bad attitudes.

There is a serious trust and confidence issue with the Police here in the US and elsewhere. This distrust will continue to grow unless policies are created to alter the course. This has been festering for many, many years and decades.

 

[GOPerfect]

Following orders? Or just being a dick?

 

[DoOver]

 

[FRB]

Well said GoPerfect, my nephew is a BPO, he is in leadership, he repeats much of what you said. The issue I have is how the Blue Line defends the outright Bully Cops, or worse yet turns a blind eye. Like the ones you mention above, or like that acting chief of the OP in Canada right now, an outright criminal in what he is saying and doing right.

 

[Truebeliever]

Well said GoPerfect, my nephew is a BPO, he is in leadership, he repeats much of what you said. The issue I have is how the Blue Line defends the outright Bully Cops, or worse yet turns a blind eye. Like the ones you mention above, or like that acting chief of the OP in Canada right now, an outright criminal in what he is saying and doing right.

Cops are quick to defend other cops because of how fast the rest of the world is too quick to condemn them especially when in most cases they are later proven right or it was a quick split second decision made under life and death circumstances. There are dozens of examples that made the press and thousands that don’t . Cops in the best of circumstances are second guessed or criticized. If not in public, then in a courtroom.

Too many are quick to say the cop was wrong and the only real support was from other cops, period. This threat is about not blindly supporting cops, correct . But what real support has anyone here really given who aren’t LEOs themselves. Did you give money to a defense ? How many here have actually thanked a cop in the past few years for anything?
Think about it.
Some say cops just let the BLM/Antifa protesters just do what they wanted as if the cops had a choice. Go just look at two cities. NYC and Portland. Go see what happened to police officers who did something. Often that officer got prosecuted or internal punishment.
Look what happened in Austin

19 Austin police officers indicted from investigation into 2020 protests, sources say

Aggravated assault charges are among the most on a single police department over tactics used during the widespread protests over George Floyd's death.

www.npr.org

Or the officer was the victim of the violence and just had to “ eat it” and watch them get a slap on the wrist at best.


Go look at the sentence for burning a police van with cops in it

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Six months— that’s it.

How about the burning of a police station and the personal property of those police officers?

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A large number of the victims of the violence were police officers . And they had to “ eat it “ when the DA wouldn’t prosecute or couldn’t act on it.

Really, how much support have you truly given that actually meant something?

Something like gave money to a cause like Project Thank-a-cop. It’s an organization that just provides breakfast for a precinct for a day. Not much different than the adopt a solider program. If you didn’t give to such a program or an individual, you really didn’t support the troops. If you haven’t done something, your prior “support “ was only in your own mind or among your friends.

Again, that so called “public support “ is flickle at best. How many cops have been railroaded . Go ask Darren Wlison. How about the Baltimore 5. That’s just some of the public ones. The thousands of cops railroaded and thrown under the bus and the only real support is from other cops. Your support can’t be counted on.

 

[GOPerfect]

Cops are quick to defend other cops because of how fast the rest of the world is too quick to condemn them especially when in most cases they are later proven right or it was a quick split second decision made under life and death circumstances. There are dozens of examples that made the press and thousands that don’t . Cops in the best of circumstances are second guessed or criticized. If not in public, then in a courtroom.

Too many are quick to say the cop was wrong and the only real support was from other cops, period. This threat is about not blindly supporting cops, correct . But what real support has anyone here really given who aren’t LEOs themselves. Did you give money to a defense ? How many here have actually thanked a cop in the past few years for anything?
Think about it.
Some say cops just let the BLM/Antifa protesters just do what they wanted as if the cops had a choice. Go just look at two cities. NYC and Portland. Go see what happened to police officers who did something. Often that officer got prosecuted or internal punishment.
Look what happened in Austin

19 Austin police officers indicted from investigation into 2020 protests, sources say

Aggravated assault charges are among the most on a single police department over tactics used during the widespread protests over George Floyd's death.

www.npr.org

Or the officer was the victim of the violence and just had to “ eat it” and watch them get a slap on the wrist at best.


Go look at the sentence for burning a police van with cops in it

This smart home fitness device helps keep your motivation up

Change the way you move with 500+ workouts.

nypost.com

Six months— that’s it.

How about the burning of a police station and the personal property of those police officers?

This smart home fitness device helps keep your motivation up

Change the way you move with 500+ workouts.

nypost.com

A large number of the victims of the violence were police officers . And they had to “ eat it “ when the DA wouldn’t prosecute or couldn’t act on it.

Really, how much support have you truly given that actually meant something?

Something like gave money to a cause like Project Thank-a-cop. It’s an organization that just provides breakfast for a precinct for a day. Not much different than the adopt a solider program. If you didn’t give to such a program or an individual, you really didn’t support the troops. If you haven’t done something, your prior “support “ was only in your own mind or among your friends.

Again, that so called “public support “ is flickle at best. How many cops have been railroaded . Go ask Darren Wlison. How about the Baltimore 5. That’s just some of the public ones. The thousands of cops railroaded and thrown under the bus and the only real support is from other cops. Your support can’t be counted on.

Lots of real truth in this post. I will usually give the benefit of the doubt to the Police. Hell, almost always unless I see first person video of wrongdoings.

I know things happen and I know why things happen quite often. Five officers to arrest one guy on the ground? So many see this as abuse, I have been in those types of incidents many of times; it is needed more often than one may believe.


Then, I see videos like this one:


I have a difficult time accepting this. I have done worse to other humans, but I was deployed and fighting a true enemy.

 

[GOPerfect]

 

[Truebeliever]

Lots of real truth in this post. I will usually give the benefit of the doubt to the Police. Hell, almost always unless I see first person video of wrongdoings.

I know things happen and I know why things happen quite often. Five officers to arrest one guy on the ground? So many see this as abuse, I have been in those types of incidents many of times; it is needed more often than one may believe.


Then, I see videos like this one:


I have a difficult time accepting this. I have done worse to other humans, but I was deployed and fighting a true enemy.

Of course, show the propaganda. Where is the whole video and not that little clip of video. Are you claiming they just wanted to intentionally eye gouch? Or maybe grab the guy by the head?
No one is mentioning that the police moved in only after someone threw acid.
The Twitter sphere is trying to claim that it must have been an undercover government operative who threw the acid

“Police are "appalled" by the behaviour this morning of protesters in Wellington that has seen three officers hospitalised after being sprayed with a "stinging substance", possibly acid.”

Government 'monitoring' whether to call in army after acid allegedly thrown, car drives into crowd

Three police officers were injured by an "unknown substance", believed to be acid.

www.nzherald.co.nz

I got the sources from clicking the tweeter feeds from the video.

 

[GOPerfect]

Wow.

 

[Darth]

"When the cops shoot you with their Glocks for not complying, are you really going to blame the cops!? They couldn't shoot you if GLOCK didn't produce that firearm. Let's put blame where it belongs. Anywhere but those perpetuating the tyrannical acts."

 

[Truebeliever]

Wow.

Wow is right. Let’s see the whole video . Again, it’s a video not in context of what happened. They sprayed acid on the cops hence the reaction. They weren’t innocent protesters.