Ukraine - Russia Conflict (Original Title: Things are heating up in the Donbass)

[spat]

What will we do if chy-na moves into Cuba?

As opposed to communist Cubans in Cuba?

Or Soviet missiles in Cuba ?

The Cuban missile crisis was an overreach on our part. But even then we did not overtly invade.

Imagine if the bay of pigs was executed with the full force of the US military, *and we still hadn't conquered the island after a year and a half*.

We would be the laughing stock of the world.

That plot sounds a bit familiar todat...

 

[holdover]

The only appropriate response is men of your own on *your side* of the fence line.

Tactically, that is the worst mistake you can make. That ground is vital to you and the enemy . Conceding it , is a mistake they cant take back.

 

[Mosinitis]

By the way. Soviet Union had a Constitution. Soviet Constitution allowed any Soviet Republic to leave the Union following the specified process. There was no provision in the Soviet Constitution for leaders of four Republics to meet secretly and dissolve the Soviet Union. That was an illegitimate action by four men who didn't have that power and acted out of self-interests.

It's very clear to Putin or members of any other Russian political factions. The more crap Russia tolerates from the West, the more West feels embolden to take it to the next step. Whenever Russians tried diplomatically to appeal to the West's sense of fairness and good will , the response was at best to talk over them or just say "what are you going to do about it".

 

[Defilade]

You do not get to invade your sovereign neighbors just because you don't like their friends.

This is the equivalent of us invading Canada because they elected Fidel Castro's illegitimate son to lead them and started cozying up to China.

The very concept of "independent" and "soverign" precludes Russia from having any say in who Ukraine allies or tradea with.

None of those excuses for this are legitimate. This is a simple attempt to conquer your neighbor. It is the same thing Iraq did to Kuwait.

Wish we could sue the government for misappropriation of our funds.

 

[Defilade]

 

[Defilade]

 

[Defilade]

Yep!

 

[tirwin1]

Russia will not stand by for GENOCIDE of Russian people, fracturing and domination of Russian Federation by fascist government in Ukraine and its Western backers. THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN!!!!

Lindsey Graham promoted genocide in a promotional ad with background music, but many other Russophobes in this country and abroad were saying the same thing in front of the cameras and behind the scene. They don't mind how many "Ukrainians" will also get killed, because those "Ukrainians" are Russian at least in part or as a whole, depending on what one believes.

Exactly how was Ukraine going to implement a genocide of the Russian people? This is a delusional statement.

 

[GOYABEAN]

 

[Robin]

 

[ManualF150]

I see that Russia is still doing fine and dandy even though the US supposedly put sanctions down....

Hey Bosch.... I'm still waiting for the replacment on my recalled CP4 high pressure diesel fuel pump... lol

Russia takes over another Western asset with Bosch plant deal

Russian state entity NAMI said on Wednesday it had acquired a 100% stake in a factory producing anti-lock brakes and other systems for cars that was formerly owned by German technology group Robert Bosch.

www.reuters.com

 

[spat]

Tactically, that is the worst mistake you can make. That ground is vital to you and the enemy . Conceding it , is a mistake they cant take back.

There is no "conceding it". It was Ukrainian territory, it was never Russia's to concede.

Ukraine has every right to station Ukrainian troops, and whoever else they want to invite to the party on Ukrainian soil.

Would Ukraine and NATO have been justified in invading Russia, back in Jan 2022 because Putin was massing troops on the Russian border ?

I just don’t get how you guys can entertain such a double standard.

Bottom line, fear if a potential invasion (especially a ridiculous unjustified fear) absolutely does not justify an actual invasion.

Imagine your neighbor breaking in and murdering you in the middle of the night because they *thought* you might be getting ready to do it to them next week.

 

[spat]

Wish we could sue the government for misappropriation of our funds.

Remind me again how many of those we claimed were really US territory that had been stolen and we were just taking them back ?

I'm not going to claim they were all justified, but in none of them were we ever even entertaining the notion that they were going to become US territory.

 

[ManualF150]

Remind me again how many of those we claimed were really US territory that had been stolen and we were just taking them back ?

I'm not going to claim they were all justified, but in none of them were we ever even entertaining the notion that they were going to become US territory.

Reminds me of the Oneida Indians...

 

[Defilade]

Remind me again how many of those we claimed were really US territory that had been stolen and we were just taking them back ?

I'm not going to claim they were all justified, but in none of them were we ever even entertaining the notion that they were going to become US territory.

More about Blood spent.

 

[Defilade]

People really should be fuming about these facts!

 

[Defilade]

 

[Defilade]

 

[holdover]

There is no "conceding it". It was Ukrainian territory, it was never Russia's to concede.

Ukraine has every right to station Ukrainian troops, and whoever else they want to invite to the party on Ukrainian soil.

Would Ukraine and NATO have been justified in invading Russia, back in Jan 2022 because Putin was massing troops on the Russian border ?

I just don’t get how you guys can entertain such a double standard.

Bottom line, fear if a potential invasion (especially a ridiculous unjustified fear) absolutely does not justify an actual invasion.

Imagine your neighbor breaking in and murdering you in the middle of the night because they *thought* you might be getting ready to do it to them next week.

""Conceding it"" is perhaps a wrong term. but allowing your enemy a strategic and tactical advantage against your own self interests is nonsensical. Those weapons that would be placed in Ukraine are all aiming at Russia

I know you find it hard to believe, but if China were to put a military and naval base in Toronto and Vancouver . the US would tell Canada that It is a direct threat to the US . And if Canada continues, it puts the US in an uncomfortable spot which it feels it must act in its own interests.

Canada is free to do whatever it wants , and the consequences of such actions are laid out in big red ink. the US will act to protect its own national interests independent of what Canada wants.

Right or wrong thats whats going to happen. When it come to a threat, theres going to be an unequal reaction

 

[spat]

""Conceding it"" is perhaps a wrong term. but allowing your enemy a strategic and tactical advantage against your own self interests is nonsensical. Those weapons that would be placed in Ukraine are all aiming at Russia

I know you find it hard to believe, but if China were to put a military and naval base in Toronto and Vancouver . the US would tell Canada that It is a direct threat to the US . And if Canada continues, it puts the US in an uncomfortable spot which it feels it must act in its own interests.

Canada is free to do whatever it wants , and the consequences of such actions are laid out in big red ink. the US will act to protect its own national interests independent of what Canada wants.

Right or wrong thats whats going to happen. When it come to a threat, theres going to be an unequal reaction

So, you're saying Ukraine would have been fully justified in destroying those Russians *before* they crossed the border ?


Does that mean NATO is fully justified to steamroll the Russian forces in Ukraine today, because they are approaching the NATO borders ?

 

[GOYABEAN]

Lesson for today do not give up your toys under any circumstances I repeat "DON'T GIVE UP YOUR TOYS "

 

[Robin]

 

[Defilade]

 

[Mosinitis]

Exactly how was Ukraine going to implement a genocide of the Russian people? This is a delusional statement.

Who was shelling Donbas for 8 years. Who invited neo-Nazis from all over the world for Russian Safari.
They and their backers openly talk about it. Whether or not they can succeed on a large scale is another subject.

Kiev intends to kill as many Russians as possible – top Zelensky aide

Mikhail Podoliak says Kiev’s only plan is to launch a brutal offensive and kill the maximum amount of Russians

www.rt.com

 

[tirwin1]

Who was shelling Donbas for 8 years. Who invited neo-Nazis from all over the world for Russian Safari.
They and their backers openly talk about it. Whether or not they can succeed on a large scale is another subject.

Kiev intends to kill as many Russians as possible – top Zelensky aide

Mikhail Podoliak says Kiev’s only plan is to launch a brutal offensive and kill the maximum amount of Russians

www.rt.com

There is no possibility the Ukrainians could kill all Russians. This is ridiculous.

Of course the Ukrainians want to inflict the maximum number of casualties during the offensive. The only way they can stop the invasion is to inflict as much pain as possible so the Russians go home. To equate that to genocide is paranoid delusional nonsense. One might say a typical Russian response.

 

[holdover]

So, you're saying Ukraine would have been fully justified in destroying those Russians *before* they crossed the border ?


Does that mean NATO is fully justified to steamroll the Russian forces in Ukraine today, because they are approaching the NATO borders ?

Absolutely if they felt it was necessary. Its been US policy for years. Matter of fact this policy was used to invade Iraq in 2002 , they did not attack us they did not help the 911 terrorists, they did not supply terrorists with WMD's and didnt have much if any WMD's in Iraq. They posed no direct threat to the US . (Except when Russia does it, then its wrong)

Building on a concept he articulated in a June 2002 speech at West Point, President George W. Bush has adopted a new emphasis on preemption in his administration’s National Security Strategy (NSS), issued September 20, 2002. Preemption, defined as the anticipatory use of force in the face of an imminent attack, has long been accepted as legitimate and appropriate under international law. In the new NSS, however, the administration is broadening the meaning to encompass preventive war as well, in which force may be used even without evidence of an imminent attack to ensure that a serious threat to the United States does not “gather” or grow over time. The strategy also elevates preemption in importance, and visibility, within the tool kit of U.S. foreign policy.

The New National Security Strategy and Preemption | Brookings

Policy Brief #113, by Michael E. O'Hanlon, Susan E. Rice, and James B. Steinberg (December 2002)

www.brookings.edu

 

[Mosinitis]

There is no possibility the Ukrainians could kill all Russians. This is ridiculous.

Of course the Ukrainians want to inflict the maximum number of casualties during the offensive. The only way they can stop the invasion is to inflict as much pain as possible so the Russians go home. To equate that to genocide is paranoid delusional nonsense. One might say a typical Russian response.

There isn't a single genocide where ALL were killed. Most of the people killed in Donbas shelling were ethnic Russian civilians and they were targeted as such.

Serbian forces targeted Albanian militants KLA in Kosovo. U.S. propaganda lied about them targeting of civilians and called it a genocide, even though it didn't effect overwhelming majority of Albanians living in Albania.

 

[spat]

There isn't a single genocide where ALL were killed. Most of the people killed in Donbas shelling were ethnic Russian civilians and they were targeted as such.

Serbian forces targeted Albanian militants KLA in Kosovo. U.S. propaganda lied about them targeting of civilians and called it a genocide, even though it didn't effect overwhelming majority of Albanians living in Albania.

So, Putin what, wanted to make sure anyone left alive in the Donbass after the Ukranian Civil War got finished off, so he invaded ?

I can't imagine anyone living there is better off after his "help".

 

[spat]

Absolutely if they felt it was necessary. Its been US policy for years. Matter of fact this policy was used to invade Iraq in 2002 , they did not attack us they did not help the 911 terrorists, they did not supply terrorists with WMD's and didnt have much if any WMD's in Iraq. They posed no direct threat to the US . (Except when Russia does it, then its wrong)

Building on a concept he articulated in a June 2002 speech at West Point, President George W. Bush has adopted a new emphasis on preemption in his administration’s National Security Strategy (NSS), issued September 20, 2002. Preemption, defined as the anticipatory use of force in the face of an imminent attack, has long been accepted as legitimate and appropriate under international law. In the new NSS, however, the administration is broadening the meaning to encompass preventive war as well, in which force may be used even without evidence of an imminent attack to ensure that a serious threat to the United States does not “gather” or grow over time. The strategy also elevates preemption in importance, and visibility, within the tool kit of U.S. foreign policy.

The New National Security Strategy and Preemption | Brookings

Policy Brief #113, by Michael E. O'Hanlon, Susan E. Rice, and James B. Steinberg (December 2002)

www.brookings.edu

Well, we better get in there then. Send in the F35s and eliminate anything more mechanized than a tricycle this side of Moscow....

 

[Mosinitis]

So, Putin what, wanted to make sure anyone left alive in the Donbass after the Ukranian Civil War got finished off, so he invaded ?

I can't imagine anyone living there is better off after his "help".

They are a part of Russia now and Russia is punching back. The children are able to go to the best schools in Russia away from the war. ICC labeled it a war crime.

Children of Donbass

Growing up under Ukrainian artillery fire

rtd.rt.com