Ukraine - Russia Conflict (Original Title: Things are heating up in the Donbass)

Defilade

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lrick said:
Amen. :goodpost:ETA: forgot kudos for @Bigfoot for posting the video.

But..but...but...Russian Imperialism :nervous:

But...but...but...Russia was the invader...and they just won't stop :nervous:

Bah. The global cabal with their dystopian agendas is a far bigger threat to OUR WAY OF LIFE today than the whole USSR ever was. I served during the Cold War, under the paradigm of Soviet aggression, everything we did was built upon that backdrop and the world was kept in better check than it is today. No one threatened us to eat bugs, take away our possessions and our rights as they openly do today.

US meddling sucked Russia in, in just the same way US meddling sucked Iraq into Kuwait, paving the way for US intervention. Our presence in the Middle East invited terrorism (or at least the specter of it), paving the way for the Patriot Act, bogus WMDs paved the way for another invasion and occupation. We do shit all the time to set up intentional blowback to further objectives. FFS Obama/Clinton damn near invited them into Crimea. Why didn't we stop the USSR rebuilding boogeyman then? So what, EIGHT YEARS LATER they move into Ukraine proper? That's a hell of a Blitzkrieg isn't it? There is hardly a war in the past 50+ years that doesn't somehow have our fingerprints on it. Biden/Obama meddling and corruption in Ukraine deserves full scrutiny.

This isn't about promoting democracy, it's about rolling out the global socialist agenda, the globalists' version, and with the globalists in the driver's seat. But first they have to subsume all vestiges of it to bring it under *their* control.
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Exactly right. The Global Socialist agenda continues on. They have told us is their own writings like this globalists P.O.S did years ago. He had his hand in it for decades.


The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy And Its Geostrategic Imperatives: Brzezinski, Zbigniew: 9780465027262: Amazon.com: Books

The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy And Its Geostrategic Imperatives [Brzezinski, Zbigniew] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy And Its Geostrategic Imperatives
www.amazon.com
 
Mosinitis

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If we only were told what we like to hear, we would still be sucking our thumb and pooping in our pants.

Russian government condemns incidents of war crimes by their military when they are real. Ukrainian government romanticizes such incidents and promotes them in the state and social media.
 
spat

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lrick said:
So much back and forth posturing in this thread, getting caught up in historical paradigms that detract from the bigger picture of today...

So I offer this...

View attachment 210872

go ahead, push it...

Please just stop with the color of war excuse-making. Wrong is wrong. Russia is no better, but one does not excuse the other.
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Russians did unspeakable things to the German civilians at the end of WWII, but they got away with it because *they won the fucking war*.

All the unspeakable things the Germans did would absolutely have been excused *if* they'd won the fucking war.

You can hold yourself to a higher standard, and pat yourself on the back for your moral superiority if you want, but *you'd better win the fucking war first* or it won't matter.
 
Mosinitis

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spat said:
Russians did unspeakable things to the German civilians at the end of WWII, but they got away with it because *they won the fucking war*.

All the unspeakable things the Germans did would absolutely have been excused *if* they'd won the fucking war.

You can hold yourself to a higher standard, and pat yourself on the back for your moral superiority if you want, but *you'd better win the fucking war first* or it won't matter.
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Russians did it despite standing orders. Heroes of Canada were following orders and killed on a much grander scale. Most of the killed German civilians were from British and American air raids.
 
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tirwin1

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Mosinitis said:
No it doesn't. Nazis were absolved from punishment for committing atrocities and also ordered to do mass executions. The scale is incomparable.
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I was unaware the Nuremberg trials absolved the Nazis. Here I was thinking it was the other way around. Thanks for clearing that up for us.
 
Mosinitis

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tirwin1 said:
I was unaware the Nuremberg trials absolved the Nazis. Here I was thinking it was the other way around. Thanks for clearing that up for us.
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I responded to idiotic Western nerrative that equates Nazis and Soviets. Obviously if Nazis won there wouldn't be any trial like Nuremberg, by axis powers. His main point wasn't worth a responce. Nazi war criminals were absolved by a criminal ideology, not by humanity or International law.
 
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prambo

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The articles below seem to delineate why, in some respects, this thread is so important...Ukraine encapsulates the death throes of the fUSA.

Yes, together they're a long read and much of what's written therein has been discussed here...but it's true, and I think we all know it's true.

And, please, no trying to polish that turd Reagan - the Neocons rose during his time - he's meaningless, except in a negative way.

It's all connected and purposeful...well thought out? - No. Dangerous - very.

Not going to extract any "pithy" quotes...there are too many.

Is World War III About to Start? Part I: Drift Toward War

Is World War III About to Start? Part II: Are the Military-Industrial Complex and Deep State Driving Us to War?

War: oligarchy's great silencer
 
spat

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lrick said:
It's not my "moral superiority" that drives my statements. I simply made points based upon principle, which you countered with points based upon practice. You certainly are not wrong in the practical context that "might makes right".

However, I will not concede that dropping grenades on a surrendering soldier was right in principle, dependent upon a yet undetermined outcome, anymore than I would concede the principle of the Second Amendment should the left one day successfully pack the SC and overturn it. Would the might makes right litmus stand in your eyes in that case? Would you likewise call the 2A a joke as you did the Geneva Convention?

You are also certainly right with the statement that "you'd better win the fucking war first" (which also applies to the 2A fight), which we'd be better equipped to do if we weren't always arguing for the sake of arguing.
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The 2A is a matter of principle. It was not put in place by the victors as an excuse to punish the vanquished. It unfortunately hasn't been used to punish anyone ever, and I think that's a significant reason why we are in our current situation. I personally think we need some governors and legislators doing hard prison time for violating it. That might be what it takes for it to be taken seriously.

The Geneva Conventions were and are used basically for propaganda purposes. To explain why you are the good guys and your enemies are the bad guys.

In practice, people only follow them as far as they feel like. The US isn't even a signatory to half of them, so we aren't even bound by them.

By and large they do not prohibit anything if it has military utility, they are more about not *unnecessarily* dragging civilians into a conflict.

Personally I think any attempt to "civilize" combat is a mistake. Combat is not, nor should it be, civilized. It should be prosecuted by the most brutal means possible such that it can be ended as fast as possible.
 
MothMan

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The separate bill carved out to allocate those funds for Kyivpassed Thursday in a 311-117 blowout bipartisan vote. Republicans had won a close procedural vote earlier in the day to separate the Ukraine money from the Pentagon bill, a move meant to flip a handful of GOP holdouts.
 
Mosinitis

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Massive surender is being reported. I heard Russians allow families to visit Ukrainian POW's to dispel lies about treatment in captivity. Good policy.

 
Bigfoot

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Steal2B said:
No new funding for Ukraine in the late night approved budget game.
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Good... Fuck Joe Biden and as far as I'm concerned fuck Ukraine and Russia too. It should be their and Europe's problem and their problem alone. Ukraine is NOT a member of NATO. There is no Article 5 in play. Period.

We have many serious problems of our own right here in our own country that need to be dealt with. One of the biggest ones is the invasion of our own country. Plus the massive debt and the huge inflation that our country is already in.

I don't post in this thread very often for reasons. But I'm not entirely ignorant on this subject IMO and I think I get it enough to form an opinion. I understand that the US Government is at one level or another responsible for the war going on now. Going back to at least 2014.

But as long as our own country is being invaded by an unarmed army of fucking military-aged turd worlders and absolutely nothing is being done to ah fuck it nevermind... :banghead:

I'm not sure how to grade McCarthy. I'm not impressed with him a lot of the time but we have done worse IMO. So I'll give him a grade of, meh.
 
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British Defense Secretary States They Are Putting Military Troops into Ukraine​

First the backdrop. Let us not pretend a confluence of events do not all go in one direction.​

https://theconservativetreehouse.co...-government-clock-2020_10_01-01_52_18-UTC.jpg
U.S. troops are conducting military exercises in eastern Moldova {link}. The CIA and State Department are the operational mechanism for all Ukraine military operations, and in total control of the Ukraine government {link}. American contracted mercenary troops operating in Ukraine are being treated at U.S. military hospitals in Germany {link}. U.S. military operations are flying drone missions above Ukraine, and U.S. satellites are coordinating the battlespace. Additionally, the U.S. is sending Abrams tanks, F-16 fighter jets along with support and training teams, and long-range missile launching systems into Ukraine. {link}

For all intents and purposes, the U.S driven NATO military forces are already actively engaged in Ukraine.
Simultaneously, the Dept of Defense {link} and CIA {link} have announced the deployment of advanced artificial intelligence operations for U.S. internet systems. That creation aligns with the Dept of Homeland Security organizing “homeland intelligence experts” {link} to control and monitor public information and shape U.S. public opinion. All of this is happening under the guise of national security. We have the COVID-19 backdrop to identify the public-private partnership approach to controlling information. This same process can easily be deployed to cover Ukraine sensitive content.

There’s your backdrop with citations. Now, given all of that, doesn’t the alignment of the demonstrable datapoints all flow in one unilateral direction?

The British are now saying the quiet part publicly and out loud:
The Telegraph – In an interview with The Telegraph, [Defense Secretary] Grant Shapps said that he had held talks with Army leaders about moving “more training and production” of military equipment into Ukraine. He also called on more British defence firms to set up factories in Ukraine.
Following a trip to Kyiv last week, Mr Shapps also reveals that he has talked to Volodymyr Zelensky, the Ukrainian president, about how Britain’s Navy could play a role in defending commercial vessels from Russian attacks in the Black Sea.

theconservativetreehouse.com

British Defense Secretary States They Are Putting Military Troops into Ukraine - The Last Refuge

First the backdrop. Let us not pretend a confluence of events do not all go in one direction. U.S. troops are conducting military exercises in eastern Moldova {link}. The CIA and State Department are the operational mechanism for all Ukraine military operations, and in total control of the...
theconservativetreehouse.com theconservativetreehouse.com
 
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