Ukraine - Russia Conflict (Original Title: Things are heating up in the Donbass)

spat

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Mosinitis said:
It reversed the process of Western Domination and control.

Geographical shape of Russia makes invasion through Ukraine much harder to defend against than invasion through Finnish border.
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Why would anyone want to invade Russia in the modern era ?

And even if they conquered and occupied 100% of modern Ukraine, that wouldn't be more than a speed bump for NATO if they decided to.

And I really think your take on the "process of western domination" is backwards.

Prior to their current misadventure in Ukraine, Russia was respected on the world stage as a major military power. Now they are the butt of jokes.

If anything, their failure in Ukraine has accelerated western domination.
 
Mosinitis

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spat said:
Why would anyone want to invade Russia in the modern era ?

And even if they conquered and occupied 100% of modern Ukraine, that wouldn't be more than a speed bump for NATO if they decided to.

And I really think your take on the "process of western domination" is backwards.

Prior to their current misadventure in Ukraine, Russia was respected on the world stage as a major military power. Now they are the butt of jokes.

If anything, their failure in Ukraine has accelerated western domination.
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NATO has a history of invading countries and failure to win wars. Call it policeman of the world or armed mental patient on the loose. It doesn't benefit anyone, except those who profit from wars no matter what the outcome.
 
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spat

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Mosinitis said:
NATO has a history of invading countries and failure to win wars. Call it policeman of the world or armed mental patient on the loose. It doesn't benefit anyone, except those who profit from wars no matter what the outcome.
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NATO has never invaded anyone.

Not sure what delusion you're under that makes you think that ever happened.

I'm not even sure *how* NATO could do that given the way the NATO command structure works.
 
Mosinitis

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Another Ukrainian stronghold in Kurahovo is surrounded. Russian forces are in control of the city center. Loud speakers are calling for Ukrainian soldiers to surrender.
 
Mosinitis

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Russian military crossed the border into Chernigov region, expending the frontline.
 
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They need to get the line past the farm land they wanted, so the can "give back" to the original line they want.
 
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Big Trouble Before Exit – Joe Biden Approves U.S. Targeting Systems and Long-Range Missiles for Ukraine to Strike Deep Inside Russia​

It’s not Joe Biden per se’, he is simply a useful pawn. This action is coming from the people deep inside the IC and State Dept who are committed to fomenting a serious conflict with Russia and Vladimir Putin as the White House is about to change hands. We previously said to watch out for this lame duck session.

In response to previous discussion about this, Russian President Vladimir Putin said he had ‘clear eyes’ on what long-range missile deployment inside Ukraine really meant. Ukraine does not have the targeting systems or satellites to use long-range missiles for strikes into Russia.
If long-range missiles were used by Ukraine, they originate from the U.S-NATO and they are deployed with the targeting of U.S-NATO. Vladimir Putin clearly stated that if such weapons were used, Russia will not pretend or ignore that this is direct provocative engagement by NATO against Russia. Knowing this, the people around Joe Biden have just deployed exactly what Putin warned about.

theconservativetreehouse.com

Big Trouble Before Exit - Joe Biden Approves U.S. Targeting Systems and Long-Range Missiles for Ukraine to Strike Deep Inside Russia - The Last Refuge

It’s not Joe Biden per se’, he is simply a useful pawn. This action is coming from the people deep inside the IC and State Dept who are committed to fomenting a serious conflict with Russia and Vladimir Putin as the White House is about to change hands. We previously said to watch out for […]
theconservativetreehouse.com theconservativetreehouse.com
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Biden-Putin-Trident-Missile.jpg

From the comments section posted above
Calbear84
November 17, 2024 2:49 pm


Reply to Sundance
The Deep State has a whole mess of secrets in Ukraine…things that will likely come to light under P47. No wonder they’re trying to goad Putin into glassing the whole country.
 
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spat

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lrick said:
Folks can go back and forth on Russia's stance about this and potential retaliation or whatabouts, but this is in their eyes an escalation. And at least in part it seems the ok of ATACMS by Biden could be in reaction to Trump's win.

With that said, maybe Trump should send a message that if Ukraine uses those missiles he severely alters the dynamics and his potential support once he takes office. They should think twice.

It would be good to see just how much more influence Trump even as President-elect holds than the current admin and their puppet-masters.
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To bring this to an end Trump needs to threaten both sides with a big stick.

He can threaten Ukraine with cutting them off if they don't make a deal. But if he doesn't also threaten Russia, then they will just demand the world from Ukraine.

The obvious threat to Russia is more support for Ukraine.

Basically "you guys better find an end for this, or I'll end it for you".
 
Mosinitis

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Russia faced this threat long before Trump was elected. I am sure their responce plan is not based on Trump's good will. Russian Parliament ratified mutual defence treaty with N.K. Things will get very ugly south of DMZ.
 
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Putins options are wait 60 days , or start Armageddon. Hes going to shoot down 50-80 % of the missiles anyway , He just has to absorb the blow to avoid a nuclear war . He knows God dam well that Biden is pulling some bullshit here. He wants to make it extremely difficult for Trump to get a peace deal . I dont think Putin is going to do anything against NATO , but he may flatten Kiev ,Target zelensky, . Theres no reason to respond to NATO if he wins the war in 60 days . He wins the war and avoids WW3 just by sitting. To me, its a no brainer. As soon as the money stops, the government will begin to collapse. Im sure Ukraine will carry on for as long as they can but its a matter of months now.
 
spat

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Mosinitis said:
Russia faced this threat long before Trump was elected. I am sure their responce plan is not based on Trump's good will. Russian Parliament ratified mutual defence treaty with N.K. Things will get very ugly south of DMZ.
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Are you seriously suggesting that N Korea is going to move on the South ?

Putin and Kim may be stupid, but I don't think they are suicidal.
 
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spat said:
Are you seriously suggesting that N Korea is going to move on the South ?

Putin and Kim may be stupid, but I don't think they are suicidal.
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I think N korea is thinking about it , they sent troops into Russia for training . but They wont act alone, If the opportunity arises Like a full blown war in the Mideast Iran or China They might see it as the best possible chance they are going to get
 
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holdover said:
Putins options are wait 60 days , or start Armageddon. Hes going to shoot down 50-80 % of the missiles anyway , He just has to absorb the blow to avoid a nuclear war . He knows God dam well that Biden is pulling some bullshit here. He wants to make it extremely difficult for Trump to get a peace deal . I dont think Putin is going to do anything against NATO , but he may flatten Kiev ,Target zelensky, . Theres no reason to respond to NATO if he wins the war in 60 days . He wins the war and avoids WW3 just by sitting. To me, its a no brainer. As soon as the money stops, the government will begin to collapse. Im sure Ukraine will carry on for as long as they can but its a matter of months now.
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Putin is a smart man by waiting all this out.

Let's not forget that Putin likes Trump. So by him waiting till Trump takes office, it actually costs less for Russia.

Think of it this way... Putin doesn't want to waste any of his nuclear arsenal on stupidity.

Ukraine/Zielensky/Biden have been acting irrational for the past 4 years and Putin knows this. Putin ain't stupid...
 
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View attachment IMG_2403.MP4

BRICS: In September, Russian President warned that NATO will enter a direct war with Russia if Ukraine uses long-range Western missiles to strike inside Russia.

Today, US President Joe Biden authorized Ukraine to strike inside Russia using Western missiles.
 
spat

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ManualF150 said:
Putin is a smart man by waiting all this out.

Let's not forget that Putin likes Trump. So by him waiting till Trump takes office, it actually costs less for Russia.

Think of it this way... Putin doesn't want to waste any of his nuclear arsenal on stupidity.

Ukraine/Zielensky/Biden have been acting irrational for the past 4 years and Putin knows this. Putin ain't stupid...
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There is no "wasting" of a nuclear arsenal.

Everyone who has seriously studied nuclear war understands that it is an all or nothing affair. If you're going to launch one, you launch everything you've got.

Because 100% it will come to that, and whoever launches the most the fastest gets the least dead.
 
spat

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Mosinitis said:
Move, fly, launch, who knows. All out or limited.
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South Korea alone outclasses the North by at least an order of magnitude.

A couple iffy nukes won't make a difference.

North Korean artillery could flatten Seoul in a couple hours as surely as a few nukes, but then North Korea would cease to exist. Utterly.

Kim has a pretty cushy thing going, I'm sure he isn't looking to end up dead.
 
Mosinitis

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spat said:
South Korea alone outclasses the North by at least an order of magnitude.

A couple iffy nukes won't make a difference.

North Korean artillery could flatten Seoul in a couple hours as surely as a few nukes, but then North Korea would cease to exist. Utterly.

Kim has a pretty cushy thing going, I'm sure he isn't looking to end up dead.
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You need to be reminded how U.S. couldn't win Korean war, even before NK had nukes.
 
Drinkthekoolaid

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Mosinitis said:
You need to be reminded how U.S. couldn't win Korean war, even before NK had nukes.
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We "could" have but chose not to do what was needed. And don't forget about literal human waves of screaming china men pouring over the yellow river heading southward.


But I'm certainly not discounting Nk Today. They are an impoverished hard militaristic culture where duty and sacrifice are engrained in the DNA from birth. They lack sophistication but make up for it in intangibles. In a straight up fight with no allies just NK vs SK I think I like NKs chances if I had to bet and choose one.
 
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