Ukraine - Russia Conflict (Original Title: Things are heating up in the Donbass)

[Mosinitis]

Russia launched a missile and drone attack on Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine, on June 6, 2025. The attack killed people, according to Ukrainian officials. The barrage consisted of 407 drones and 44 ballistic and cruise missiles

Looks like the Ukraine FA and FO

Some great videos on YT

Also on Kherson,Tirnopol and few other cities. It was the biggest attack since April. Supposedly this is retaliation for the Ukrainian attacks on railroad bridges and passenger train. Retaliation for drone attacks on strategic bombers may still to come.

Ukraine is threatening sea drone attacks on Russian Pacific fleet. Great Britain is deeply involved in this.

 

[GOPerfect]

Also on Kherson and Tirnopol. It was the biggest attack since April. Supposedly this is retaliation for the Ukrainian attacks on railroad bridges and passenger train. Retaliation for drone attacks on strategic bombers may still to come.

Ukraine is threatening sea drone attacks on Russian Pacific fleet. Great Britain is deeply involved in this.

They will all fail. Best thing GB could do, walk away

 

[prambo]

Also on Kherson,Tirnopol and few other cities. It was the biggest attack since April. Supposedly this is retaliation for the Ukrainian attacks on railroad bridges and passenger train. Retaliation for drone attacks on strategic bombers may still to come.

Ukraine is threatening sea drone attacks on Russian Pacific fleet. Great Britain is deeply involved in this.

Starmer, Macron and Merz are functionally delusional...for whatever insane reason they keep mouthing off how easy it would be to defeat Russia.

An object lesson for them...study the seige of Stalingrad and the Nazi's winter retreat, very closely...and then walk away from the Neo-Con bullshit.

They can yammer about drones, bombs, nukes and whatever...but to actually take and hold ground, you have to put grunts on the ground, and they don't have many, regardless of what some people on this thread think. All 3 are dissolute societies in the final stages of collapse.

 

[spat]

Also on Kherson,Tirnopol and few other cities. It was the biggest attack since April. Supposedly this is retaliation for the Ukrainian attacks on railroad bridges and passenger train. Retaliation for drone attacks on strategic bombers may still to come.

Ukraine is threatening sea drone attacks on Russian Pacific fleet. Great Britain is deeply involved in this.

It's insane to wage war like that.

You don't go tit for tat. You fight the fucking war.

It's not like D-Day was "revenge" for the battle of Britain. It's not like it wasn't inevitable once France was lost.

It was done because it was a necessary step to win the war.

So, either these Russian attacks had a logical military purpose, and so they should have been executed regardless of what Ukraine did, or they didn't, so they shouldn't have been executed at all.

If you guys are right and Putin has been half assing this whole war and still has room to "escalate", then he's a moron.

If you're going to fight a war, then you don't use the least force you think will work. You use the most force you can bring to bear.

That's like carrying an extra 22 to use in case your .45 would be too much.

 

[spat]

Starmer, Macron and Merz are functionally delusional...for whatever insane reason they keep mouthing off how easy it would be to defeat Russia.

An object lesson for them...study the seige of Stalingrad and the Nazi's winter retreat, very closely...and then walk away from the Neo-Con bullshit.

They can yammer about drones, bombs, nukes and whatever...but to actually take and hold ground, you have to put grunts on the ground, and they don't have many, regardless of what some people on this thread think. All 3 are dissolute societies in the final stages of collapse.

But they don't need to.

Nobody is talking about occupying Moscow.

They just need to degrade the Russian troops *in* Ukraine enough that the Ukranians can kick them out.

Liberation is a completely different ballgame to occupation.

Imagine how much easier it was for the allies to "hold" France than it was for the Germans during WWII for instance.

 

[holdover]

It's insane to wage war like that.

You don't go tit for tat. You fight the fucking war.

It's not like D-Day was "revenge" for the battle of Britain. It's not like it wasn't inevitable once France was lost.

It was done because it was a necessary step to win the war.

So, either these Russian attacks had a logical military purpose, and so they should have been executed regardless of what Ukraine did, or they didn't, so they shouldn't have been executed at all.

If you guys are right and Putin has been half assing this whole war and still has room to "escalate", then he's a moron.

If you're going to fight a war, then you don't use the least force you think will work. You use the most force you can bring to bear.

That's like carrying an extra 22 to use in case your .45 would be too much.

Its a catch 22, if Putin raises an army of 2 million men required to finish the job in Ukraine , He then poses a Very real threat to the border lands Possibly prompting NATO action. I know theres a lot of Bullshit saying he is going to attack and over run NATO , but NATO knows different, they understand that Russia hasnt demonstrated the actual capacity to do the job. And that was by intent by the Russians , they can sell it to the public , but the military understands He hasnt shown the intent or the ability to invade the west .If he raises an army of huge proportions he poses a viable threat .Its a very calculated response. He wants to use just enough troops to win without poseing a threat to the west.

The question that has me puzzled is why hasnt he taken the bridges out over the Dniper river or at least most of them , the obvious answer is because he wants to secure them to use later, but that doesnt wash, because the Ukraines are going to blow those bridges if they are in danger of falling to the Russians

 

[spat]

Its a catch 22, if Putin raises an army of 2 million men required to finish the job in Ukraine , He then poses a Very real threat to the border lands Possibly prompting NATO action. I know theres a lot of Bullshit saying he is going to attack and over run NATO , but NATO knows different, they understand that Russia hasnt demonstrated the actual capacity to do the job. And that was by intent by the Russians , they can sell it to the public , but the military understands He hasnt shown the intent or the ability to invade the west .If he raises an army of huge proportions he poses a viable threat .Its a very calculated response. He wants to use just enough troops to win without poseing a threat to the west.

The question that has me puzzled is why hasnt he taken the bridges out over the Dniper river or at least most of them , the obvious answer is because he wants to secure them to use later, but that doesnt wash, because the Ukraines are going to blow those bridges if they are in danger of falling to the Russians

Nobody serious thinks Russia can invade the west, or even make a serious attempt to do so.

He can't even take the west half of Ukraine after 3 years.

Even without NATO, Poland alone would curb stomp Russia.

 

[GOPerfect]

It is apparent throughout this entire thread....

There are many that have no understanding of Russia, The Ukraine, the people of the two nations or how certain warfare is fought.

 

[livingston]

Most Russians No Longer View United States As Their Top Enemy: Poll​

A new public opinion poll shows that most Russians no longer consider the United States to be their number one global enemy, which suggests that Trump administration's stance on the Ukraine conflict has served to soften public opinion in Russia.
"The U.S. dropped from first to fourth on this list for the first time in 20 years of measurements," the independent pollster, Levada Center, said in a newly published survey.
The top three most hostile countries, according to the Russian respondents, were named as Germany (55%), the United Kingdom (49%) and Ukraine (43%).
The Levada Center survey shows Russians view there closest allies to be Belarus (80%), China (64%), Kazakhstan (36%), India (32%), and North Korea (30%).

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[holdover]

Nobody serious thinks Russia can invade the west, or even make a serious attempt to do so.

He can't even take the west half of Ukraine after 3 years.

Thats the story theyre trying to sell to the public to help support the military aid to Ukraine , If Russia defeats Ukraine, then all of Europe is in danger. Hogwash.

 

[spat]

It is apparent throughout this entire thread....

There are many that have no understanding of Russia, The Ukraine, the people of the two nations or how certain warfare is fought.

I'm sure Russia is just one good Calvary charge from victory.

The whole point is that Russia *doesn't* know how to fight this type of warfare. That's been apparent from the beginning.

 

[spat]

Thats the story theyre trying to sell to the public to help support the military aid to Ukraine , If Russia defeats Ukraine, then all of Europe is in danger. Hogwash.

You honestly think Russia could present a real conventional threat to NATO ?

It would look like Conoco fields writ large.

The lie is to present them as more of a threat than they really are to justify the spending.

 

[holdover]

You honestly think Russia could present a real conventional threat to NATO ?

It would look like Conoco fields writ large.

The lie is to present them as more of a threat than they really are to justify the spending.

Thats what Im trying to say.

 

[Mosinitis]

A hundred dollar drone can take out multi-million dollar strategic bomber. A pair of scissors can take out a drone. Unbelievable how warfare is changing.

https://www.rt.com/russia/618783-drone-scissors-ukraine-fibre/

 

[holdover]

I'm sure Russia is just one good Calvary charge from victory.

The whole point is that Russia *doesn't* know how to fight this type of warfare. That's been apparent from the beginning.

Is it? You think they should have just run over the NATO trained, equipped,army which was larger , and just brush them aside so easy? Without question, there are some serous problems with the training and leadership of the Russian armed forces , that is apparent. Both sides had to contend with a new form of drone warfare for which there had been no real consideration or counter for . With real time satellite intelligence. The russian military had to fight with limited use of airpower because they could not absorb the losses, and if it was attritted to badly, they would have no hope of countering a NATO air campaign, they were forced to husband thier air assets as much as possible , leaving it to artillery and the ground pounders . in the back of the Russians minds is How are we going to deal with an attack by NATO? The Russians cant go 100% , it exposes them if they fall short

""You fight like a young man, with nothing held back, admirable, but mistaken""-Bane from batman

For the last year, the Russians have been taking ground from Ukraine, town after town city after city, at a snails pace, but still Ukraine cant stop them

They cant launch any kind of effective offense , they have no hope of ever driving the Russians out , foot by foot , inch by inch the Russians move forward in an infantrys mans war and Ukraine cant stop them .

 

[holdover]

A hundred dollar drone can take out multi-million dollar strategic bomber. A pair of scissors can take out a drone. Unbelievable how warfare is changing.

https://www.rt.com/russia/618783-drone-scissors-ukraine-fibre/

Throw in real time intelligence, and its a game changer

 

[spat]

Is it? You think they should have just run over the NATO trained, equipped,army which was larger , and just brush them aside so easy? Without question, there are some serous problems with the training and leadership of the Russian armed forces , that is apparent. Both sides had to contend with a new form of drone warfare for which there had been no real consideration or counter for . With real time satellite intelligence. The russian military had to fight with limited use of airpower because they could not absorb the losses, and if it was attritted to badly, they would have no hope of countering a NATO air campaign, they were forced to husband thier air assets as much as possible , leaving it to artillery and the ground pounders . in the back of the Russians minds is How are we going to deal with an attack by NATO? The Russians cant go 100% , it exposes them if they fall short

""You fight like a young man, with nothing held back, admirable, but mistaken""-Bane from batman

For the last year, the Russians have been taking ground from Ukraine, town after town city after city, at a snails pace, but still Ukraine cant stop them

They cant launch any kind of effective offense , they have no hope of ever driving the Russians out , foot by foot , inch by inch the Russians move forward in an infantrys mans war and Ukraine cant stop them .

But the only answer to "how will we counter NATO ?" Is "you don't".

If NATO attacks, the Russians will do nothing because they can do nothing. Holding something in reserve for that contingency is just stupid.

Imagine a Mexican cartel saying "we're holding those troops in reserve in case the Americans attack". It's that dumb.

 

[holdover]

But the only answer to "how will we counter NATO ?" Is "you don't".

If NATO attacks, the Russians will do nothing because they can do nothing. Holding something in reserve for that contingency is just stupid.

Imagine a Mexican cartel saying "we're holding those troops in reserve in case the Americans attack". It's that dumb.

Yeah right, Like the Russian general staff is going to just quit and walk away. Now thats dumb.

 

[spat]

Yeah right, Like the Russian general staff is going to just quit and walk away. Now thats dumb.

What is it you think they would do ?

They are fighting one war that they're already in over their head on.

Holding troops in reserve for another that you would get steamrolled on either way is dumb. There's no other way to put it.

 

[holdover]

I think they would make plans accordingly . No its not dumb, Let NATO aircraft enter Russia and sees what happens Russian fighters are behind a belt of the best air defenses in the world after crossing it, they are met with a fucking tiger, then they get to cross back again. and as soon as they land Russian missiles are following them home. It aint gonna be a cake walk like you think

The Luftwaffe had better planes and pilots too, You seem to think we have such a vast technological edge that no matter what anyone does they cant stop us. thats horse shit propaganda thinking , We havent fielded much newer weapons in 30 years , to busy fighting everywhere .

The thing is, Its the job of the military to overcome the enemy's advantages , not quit. Maybe it wouldnt work, Ok. but they are not ever going to say Ok We quit, We dont even plan on resisting? Are you fucking for real? is that what you really think?

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

It is apparent throughout this entire thread....

There are many that have no understanding of Russia, The Ukraine, the people of the two nations or how certain warfare is fought.

Throw in real time intelligence, and its a game changer

* Uninterrupted Real time intelligence with immunity

If this was a real war Russia would be shooting down the US and NATO sigint aircraft collecting untold troves of Russian targeting data and Intel to share with Ukraine. If Russia was downing those assets it would be a huge blow to Ukraine and save a lot of Russian lives and equipment.

Ukraine is getting unlimited Intel that is shielded from danger.

It's a total wildcard game changer for them. There was a lot of thinking right in the opening week of the war without the US providing real time Intel to Ukraine that was invaluable at massing defensive forces at precisely the right place at the right time Russia would have seized enough critical infrastructure and wouldn't have lost the initiative on their immediate push to taking kiev.

 

[spat]

I think they would make plans accordingly . No its not dumb, Let NATO aircraft enter Russia and sees what happens Russian fighters are behind a belt of the best air defenses in the world after crossing it, they are met with a fucking tiger, then they get to cross back again. and as soon as they land Russian missiles are following them home. It aint gonna be a cake walk like you think

The Luftwaffe had better planes and pilots too, You seem to think we have such a vast technological edge that no matter what anyone does they cant stop us. thats horse shit propaganda thinking , We havent fielded much newer weapons in 30 years , to busy fighting everywhere .

The thing is, Its the job of the military to overcome the enemy's advantages , not quit. Maybe it wouldnt work, Ok. but they are not ever going to say Ok We quit, We dont even plan on resisting? Are you fucking for real? is that what you really think?

In WWII the polish sent Calvary charges on horseback to repel the German Blitzkreig combined arms assault.

It would look like that.

You don't fly through air defenses like that. You dismantle them.

Russia has somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 full S-400 systems.

The first phase of a fight with NATO would see most of those destroyed within the first few hours.

The next couple days would be spent on intensive SEAD missions to hunt down the rest. The lifespan of an S-400 would be minutes after turning on it's radar.

50ish S-400 systems with 1000 F35s to hunt them down. That math does not favor the Russians.

 

[holdover]

In WWII the polish sent Calvary charges on horseback to repel the German Blitzkreig combined arms assault.

It would look like that.

You don't fly through air defenses like that. You dismantle them.

Russia has somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 full S-400 systems.

The first phase of a fight with NATO would see most of those destroyed within the first few hours.

The next couple days would be spent on intensive SEAD missions to hunt down the rest. The lifespan of an S-400 would be minutes after turning on it's radar.

50ish S-400 systems with 1000 F35s to hunt them down. That math does not favor the Russians.

Yes thats the theory. But it isnt going to work the way you think, there are many counter measures the Russians can take, They can already block our GPS systems, they can use Jamming, and they can field thousands of radar emitting decoys Possibly hit our own airfields with drones or missiles. In any case, this demonstrates your belief that We are immune to enemy action and that technology cannot be overcome with lesser means. The Ukraines themselves had better training , better equipment , better intel than the Russians and they are losing.

Whats your plan if the Russians had developed a method for rendering our radar seeking missiles ineffective ? Supposing they had taken out our observation and targeting satellites ? Supposing our HARM missiles dont work as advertised like the patriot ? You dont take the enemy seriously, You have an arrogance of superiority that can get your people killed. If you go into the fight thinking one thing, and it turns out your wrong, Your going to pay the price in blood and treasure.

Maybe your right, maybe the Russians are all retarded and its a cake walk like you think , I dont agree with that.

 

[spat]

Yes thats the theory. But it isnt going to work the way you think, there are many counter measures the Russians can take, They can already block our GPS systems, they can use Jamming, and they can field thousands of radar emitting decoys Possibly hit our own airfields with drones or missiles. In any case, this demonstrates your belief that We are immune to enemy action and that technology cannot be overcome with lesser means. The Ukraines themselves had better training , better equipment , better intel than the Russians and they are losing.

Whats your plan if the Russians had developed a method for rendering our radar seeking missiles ineffective ? Supposing they had taken out our observation and targeting satellites ? Supposing our HARM missiles dont work as advertised like the patriot ? You dont take the enemy seriously, You have an arrogance of superiority that can get your people killed. If you go into the fight thinking one thing, and it turns out your wrong, Your going to pay the price in blood and treasure.

Maybe your right, maybe the Russians are all retarded and its a cake walk like you think , I dont agree with that.

We have fought all these Russian systems.

They simply do not work as well as Russia advertises them.

If they take out American satellites, then the gloves are off and Russia will be in the stone age inside of a week. No power, no internet, and certainly no satellite communications.

Sure, they can jam GPS. Lucky for us we are equipped to operate in environments where GPS doesn't work. We were flying cruise missiles through the window of choice back in the 90s, when those missiles used terrain mapping not GPS. We have maps that are an order of magnitude better now.

Sure, maybe they have some magic anti-HARM missile technology. Guess we will just have to blow up their air defense with laser guided bombs instead.

Not sure where you get the idea that Patriots aren't working as advertised. Who's advertisements are you reading, Raytheon, or CNN ?

And I simply look at how things have gone else where in recent history. Anytime US equipment operated by US personnel goes up against Russian or Soviet equipment, it's a blood bath.

We enjoy not just overwhelming technological superiority, or even troops with far higher levels of training, but we eclipse them totally in numbers as well.

You have some bizarre notions that you are able to enjoy only because you do not look at anything past vague platitudes.

When asked *how* the Russians could theoretically do any of this, you just fall back on some nebulous "they would make plans" statement that says absolutely nothing.

So, try to back something up with some actual research or quantitative data and not just your personal feelings that "Russians are cool, so they'll win".

 

[holdover]

terrain mapping

You know how terrain mapping works right? Radar. It sends radar waves directly to the ground and reads the terrain compares it to its on board maps and makes corrections . You send out enough radar chatter and you can blind them .

 

[holdover]

Sure, maybe they have some magic anti-HARM missile technology. Guess we will just have to blow up their air defense with laser guided bombs instead.

This! You see this shit!!?? You do understand why this wont work right?

Not sure where you get the idea that Patriots aren't working as advertised.

Yeah Im getting that from the fact that Ukraine citys are being bombed by missiles , Im getting that from the fact that patriots are not capeable of hitting hyper sonic missiles. You can see those facts on any news station chief,

When asked *how* the Russians could theoretically do any of this, you just fall back on some nebulous "they would make plans" statement that says absolutely nothing.

It means nothing to you because you know nothing of How military's work . They have to ""what if ""everything, they have to wargame , they have to have contingency plans and doctrines , they dont fly by the seat of thier pants and guess, they dont go 100% balls to wall if they dont have to , its far to dangerous , they have to have reserves in case Poland decides to go it alone and move forces into Ukraine , they have reserves set aside for that purpose. thats just standard procedure for any modern military.

Yeah, I think Goperfect was right.

So, try to back something up with some actual research or quantitative data and not just your personal feelings that "Russians are cool, so they'll win"

Can you specify what personal feelings ? because I have no idea what your talking about.

 

[spat]

You know how terrain mapping works right? Radar. It sends radar waves directly to the ground and reads the terrain compares it to its on board maps and makes corrections . You send out enough radar chatter and you can blind them .

Yes, but that sort of jamming is impractical for the whole path, and the terminal guidance is usually optical.

Now similar "optical jamming" exists, but imagine trying to maintain a smoke screen covering your critical assets 24x7.

 

[spat]

This! You see this shit!!?? You do understand why this wont work right?

Yeah Im getting that from the fact that Ukraine citys are being bombed by missiles , Im getting that from the fact that patriots are not capeable of hitting hyper sonic missiles. You can see those facts on any news station chief,


It means nothing to you because you know nothing of How military's work . They have to ""what if ""everything, they have to wargame , they have to have contingency plans and doctrines , they dont fly by the seat of thier pants and guess, they dont go 100% balls to wall if they dont have to , its far to dangerous , they have to have reserves in case Poland decides to go it alone and move forces into Ukraine , they have reserves set aside for that purpose. thats just standard procedure for any modern military.

Yeah, I think Goperfect was right.


Can you specify what personal feelings ? because I have no idea what your talking about.

Yes, militaries have contingencies and plan out everything.

But that doesn't mean they can make *working* plans for everything. Sometimes the plan is just "we're fucked, but we'll do what we can", like the Pols sending guys on horseback to fight tanks.

But my point was that they have no way to counter something and you're just "they'll make a plan" as if that means they can pull some magic wand out of their ass to make it work.

The Iraqis had the 4th largest military on earth, and they had battle hardened troops and commanders from a decade long war against Iran.

They had detailed plans to defend their conquest in Kuwait. Fuck all good any of that did for them.

It would look like that if NATO decided to kick Russia out of Ukraine.


As for personal feelings, you seem to have some personal investment in the Russians being able to put up a fight against NATO. You have no idea how, but you're sure they can do it.

All you offer are vague "they have plans" or "their attitudes are different" or things like that. But you have no specifics about how any of that could translate into anything but mass casualties for them.

 

[holdover]

But that doesn't mean they can make *working* plans for everything. Sometimes the plan is just "we're fucked, but we'll do what we can",

that would be correct. But certainly the most likely and probable possibilities are going to be addressed. NATO or Poland entering the war would be a primary threat and contingency plans to deal with it have already been drawn up, and those plans require reserve forces . IM sure the Ukrainians have reserve forces posted in and around Kiev in the event of a Russian break through , and this demonstrates the point why you shouldn't go 100% , its to dangerous .

The Iraqis had the 4th largest military on earth, and they had battle hardened troops and commanders from a decade long war against Iran.

They had detailed plans to defend their conquest in Kuwait. Fuck all good any of that did for them.

Apples and oranges, Shitty air defense, and no air force , wide open terrain , and the Iraqis were not exactly a high end military, they had some tough units from the republican guard and a lot of conscripts.

Im not sure how you equate the 2 military's as being equal , the US were useing new weapons systems that were unknown or not understood by Iraqi military. Russia has been dealing with a lot of advanced weapon systems that NATO has sent , and still moving forward .

But my point was that they have no way to counter something and you're just "they'll make a plan" as if that means they can pull some magic wand out of their ass to make it work.

Thats not what I said at all.

 

[spat]

that would be correct. But certainly the most likely and probable possibilities are going to be addressed. NATO or Poland entering the war would be a primary threat and contingency plans to deal with it have already been drawn up, and those plans require reserve forces . IM sure the Ukrainians have reserve forces posted in and around Kiev in the event of a Russian break through , and this demonstrates the point why you shouldn't go 100% , its to dangerous .

Apples and oranges, Shitty air defense, and no air force , wide open terrain , and the Iraqis were not exactly a high end military, they had some tough units from the republican guard and a lot of conscripts.

Im not sure how you equate the 2 military's as being equal , the US were useing new weapons systems that were unknown or not understood by Iraqi military. Russia has been dealing with a lot of advanced weapon systems that NATO has sent , and still moving forward .


Thats not what I said at all.

Baghdad was considered to have the most sophisticated air defense on the planet at the time.

We systematically dismantled that in hours.

Yep, they had lots of conscription, just like Russia.

And you keep talking about "they have plans" as if that *means* anything. Unless you have a suggestion about what is *in* those plans it's just hot air.

"The need to hold something in reserve for contingencies" only makes sense up to a point. If you have troops you will *never* deploy because you "need to keep them in reserve" then you might as well not have them.

Imagine France in early WWII being overrun by the Germans, but keeping a large reserve force in case Spain decided to get involved.