When Lesser Force Fails: Who Gets a Last Resort in Times Square? What we learned yesterday

[PeteT]

Yesterday in Times Square, NYPD officers reportedly used commands, time, and a Taser before using firearms against a woman advancing with two knives. Their professionalism raises a fair question:

If even trained officers with backup and less-lethal options may ultimately require a firearm against that threat, why does New York generally make possession by a vetted carry licensee who completed the state’s required training a felony there—where civilians encounter the danger first?

This does not claim an armed bystander would have succeeded. It asks whether the policy is logically consistent.

Read the sourced analysis, tell us where you agree or disagree, and share it with someone who sees the issue differently:

Times Square Stabbing Exposed: Armed Police, Disarmed Public

 

[Cavalry]

If even trained officers with backup and less-lethal options may ultimately require a firearm against that threat, why does New York generally make possession by a vetted carry licensee who completed the state’s required training a felony there—where civilians encounter the danger first?

Do you want to talk about justifible force/Article 35.XX or that NYC is a draconian shithole?

You state NY but give a NYC example, These are vastly different places and the laws for each are equally different. Are we talking about NYC or NYS?

 

[livingston]

Yesterday in Times Square, NYPD officers reportedly used commands, time, and a Taser before using firearms against a woman advancing with two knives. Their professionalism raises a fair question:

If even trained officers with backup and less-lethal options may ultimately require a firearm against that threat, why does New York generally make possession by a vetted carry licensee who completed the state’s required training a felony there—where civilians encounter the danger first?

This does not claim an armed bystander would have succeeded. It asks whether the policy is logically consistent.

Read the sourced analysis, tell us where you agree or disagree, and share it with someone who sees the issue differently:

Times Square Stabbing Exposed: Armed Police, Disarmed Public

Suspect and female victim dead after Times Square stabbing spree​

 

[PeteT]

Do you want to talk about justifible force/Article 35.XX or that NYC is a draconian shithole?

You state NY but give a NYC example, These are vastly different places and the laws for each are equally different. Are we talking about NYC or NYS?

Justification doesn't matter when NY has such insanity around sensitive and restricted locations. No such thing as self-defense with a firearm in a sensitive place, even though these are the places where we need to be armed the most.

 

[Cooolone]

Justification doesn't matter when NY has such insanity around sensitive and restricted locations. No such thing as self-defense with a firearm in a sensitive place, even though these are the places where we need to be armed the most.

Did you come to just argue? You ask a question, get an answer then even take the question down a rabbit hole... Newbie's... Gosh!

For your information "Justifiable Defense" is entirely relevant and is the governing law. You should learn Art.35, Art.400 and maybe a few others if you're going to try and debate answers given by seasoned members. It might just help you out in the long run.

For the matter, or question at hand, NYC has a clear and definable malfeasance towards anyone exercising their 2A Rights. But Govt doesn't get to define a Right, the Constitution only recognizes it! YOU have life choices to make, be compliant, or do what you gotta do to protect yourself at all times. Here, in this example, the use of deadly force is entirely justifiable by Art.35. But then you'd have to add in the malfeasance of the DA and the fact they'll ask you why you were there to begin with, why you didn't remove yourself from the situation, etc.,etc.,etc. And oh, the SCOTUS has pretty much evaporated that nonsense "sensitive" places bullshit too... Times Square is one of the most PUBLIC places on the planet. Anyways...

Judged by 12 or carried by 6! It's a choice!

And also, it would be hard for anyone to show convictions for carrying outside their jurisdiction in NY, error, NYC. There's no case history there (or show me). So don't say you cannot defend yourself.

Times Square is still the shit hole it was decades ago, it just has new lipstick applied! If you're going there, what would YOU DO to prepare yourself? Share with us...

And yes, good advice above as well, that NYC is not a representation of the State as a whole...

Bottom line is Fuck NY and all it's madness!

 

[Tisto]

First, the term liberal logic is an oxymoron. Liberalism makes NO sense logically. It never has, and it never needed to. Liberals do not think, they feel. Their policies do not need to make any logical sense, nor do they need to produce the promised results. They need only to make people feel good about having "done something" to solve the problem. New York is run, top to bottom by liberals, and as such, the policies and laws of this State reflect that.

 

[dwa12479]

Reading a lot of takes on this on Twitter... it shocks me how ignorant some people are about force on force to defend oneself.

 

[fresch]

I'm just surprised a 9mm had the capability to down the beast.

 

[CaseHardened]

I realize not everyone speaks Spanish is an Illegal ... but ...

 

[CaseHardened]

I hear the gears spinning among the DSA as to how they plan to send the Officer who shot to Prison.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

I'm just surprised a 9mm had the capability to down the beast.

Do we know what caliber was actually fired? I thought the NYPD used either 10mm, or .40?

Not shown yet where that NYPD officer hit her 3 times from less than 10’ away, but that was certainly a big enough center mass that he was unlikely to miss.

Her quick, mini, sort of prancing footstep routine advancing toward the officers while whirling both knives did not work out too well for her. It was weird to see.

Saw an unedited / blocked video on my FB feed of the incident. You can see the black officer to the left reholstering after 3 shots were heard, and she fell forward.

 

[Brawny71]

She was tazed TWICE. Watch the video close and you’ll see one still connected to her.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

The video of her flailing around making circular motions with the knives and the weird short footsteps prancing routine as she advanced toward the cops popped up in my newsfeeds last night a few more times.

And then it occurred to me that it deserves to be named for its’uniqueness.

I think it should be named: Times Square Two Step.

See the video in the linked NYPost article (other sites have clearer versions available):

Mom of crazed Times Square killer questions why cops couldn’t grab her as she lunged at them with knives

The killer’s brother said she “never showed any aggressiveness” before.

nypost.com

 

[tirwin1]

A crazy lady that goes off and kills someone completely at random? Sounds like an episode of the xfiles.

 

[CaseHardened]

mother and brother complain .... in spanish

Community Activists will be working to have an officer or two join this gentleman:



And .... family will be seeking a payday.

 

[CaseHardened]

Father complains (in Spanish).

 

[CaseHardened]

I have not read a definitive statement on the Immigration Status of any of the family.

 

[fresch]

The video of her flailing around making circular motions with the knives and the weird short footsteps prancing routine as she advanced toward the cops popped up in my newsfeeds last night a few more times.

And then it occurred to me that it deserves to be named for its’uniqueness.

I think it should be named: Times Square Two Step.

See the video in the linked NYPost article (other sites have clearer versions available):

Mom of crazed Times Square killer questions why cops couldn’t grab her as she lunged at them with knives

The killer’s brother said she “never showed any aggressiveness” before.

nypost.com

She was sneaking up like an assassin.

 

[tirwin1]

Apparently the murder of random strangers, particularly bank employees, is actively cheered on by a lot of mamdani fans.

 

[CaseHardened]

Apparently the murder of random strangers, particularly bank employees, is actively cheered on by a lot of mamdani fans.

And still most of you seem reluctant for Trump to "Go Full Lincoln"

Which is the only way to save this country.

 

[CaseHardened]

This is part of what Lincoln did.

Sadly, our present situation is far more serious and requires even more.

Moving quickly against the insurrection, President Abraham Lincoln called up the militia and suspended the writ of habeas corpus—a legal order enabling an individual to seek release from unlawful detention. In suspending that privilege, Lincoln exercised an authority constitutionally reserved for Congress. Lincoln then called the entire Congress into extraordinary session, where he sought congressional approval of his actions.
Image Details
After the attack on Fort Sumter, President Abraham Lincoln called for support from state militias. Confederate sympathizers in Maryland ambushed some of the northern troops en route to Washington. Lincoln declared martial law in the region and authorized General Winfield Scott, General-in-Chief of the Army, to suspend the writ of habeas corpus if necessary to control rebellion.

 

[CaseHardened]

I have not read a definitive statement on the Immigration Status of any of the family.

And still have not.

Forgive me for my Nationalist Reaction, but as I see it, the murderer and her entire family is worthless.

Even if not illegal, I doubt any hold jobs. Send them all home.

 

[togmaster]

Was it retaliation for the tariffs?

 

[spat]

The video of her flailing around making circular motions with the knives and the weird short footsteps prancing routine as she advanced toward the cops popped up in my newsfeeds last night a few more times.

And then it occurred to me that it deserves to be named for its’uniqueness.

I think it should be named: Times Square Two Step.

See the video in the linked NYPost article (other sites have clearer versions available):

Mom of crazed Times Square killer questions why cops couldn’t grab her as she lunged at them with knives

The killer’s brother said she “never showed any aggressiveness” before.

nypost.com

She should have tried out for the olympics.

 

[spat]

I have not read a definitive statement on the Immigration Status of any of the family.

So we know then.

 

[Grimscale]

This is part of what Lincoln did.

Sadly, our present situation is far more serious and requires even more.

I don't think we are at the point where we need to suspend the Constitution.

There are plenty of laws that just need to be enforced, especially against those rogue State legislatures and activist judges who consistently seek to violate the Constitution and The People's Constitutional Rights.

 

[Brawny71]

We NEED Lady Justice to put the blind fold back on! We NEED to purge all political bias flushed from the system.

 

[CaseHardened]

I don't think we are at the point where we need to suspend the Constitution.

There are plenty of laws that just need to be enforced, especially against those rogue State legislatures and activist judges who consistently seek to violate the Constitution and The People's Constitutional Rights.

As it turns out, even in 1861 merely passing a law does not get the job done.

Criminals and Traitors are shielded by Criminal Judges.

Actual Force by the US Goverment is the sole solution.

 

[CaseHardened]

We NEED Lady Justice to put the blind fold back on! We NEED to purge all political bias flushed from the system.

It won't happen without utilizing the maximum force specified by Article II, Section 2, Clause 1:

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

Martial law can be validly and constitutionally established by supreme political authority in wartime as held in Luther v. Borden.1 In Luther, the Court held that state declarations of martial law were conclusive and therefore not subject to judicial review.2 In this case, the Court found that the Rhode Island legislature had been within its rights in resorting to the rights and usages of war in combating insurrection in that state.3 The decision in the Prize Cases,4 although not dealing directly with the subject of martial law, gave national scope to the same general principle in 1863.

The fraudulent Election of 2020 alone, was an act of war against our nation. And should have been dealt with as such.

 

[spat]

As it turns out, even in 1861 merely passing a law does not get the job done.

Criminals and Traitors are shielded by Criminal Judges.

Actual Force by the US Goverment is the sole solution.

Don't need to suspend the constitution for that.

Just need to remove the corrupt judges and officials.

Now, if corrupt officials can look the other way for criminals with the "right politics", then maybe the honest officials can cut some slack when the people start doing something about them directly.

OfC, if Biden can pre-emptively pardon his guys, so can Trump.

Imagine the shitstorm if Trump announced a pre-emptive pardon for Boasberg's attacker. I bet someone would show up to collect that pardon real quick.

A lot of people would get real quiet too.

So, we're not at the "suspend the constitution" stage, but we're long past the point where we can "play by the rules" and still survive.