holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Absolutely, but You can understand why they would do it. Its a national security issue for them
Ukraine - Russia Conflict (Original Title: Things are heating up in the Donbass)
- Thread starter holdover
- Start date
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I see this as arguing for the sake of arguing. Do you think that places like Sweden or Finland will not join the west efforts should a conflict escalate? They have joined many times in the past as enhanced opportunity partners and they will continue to support the west even if they are not officially part of the NATO alliance.
Maps (specially old ones) say nothing about how the chess pieces will move.
Maps (specially old ones) say nothing about how the chess pieces will move.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
The old maps were used to make a valid point of encroachment over the years by NATO
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
I don't know what you are talking about. No one does that here.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
No relevance to the case.
The argument wasnt over a NATO war with Russia . The Argument was about NATO on Russia's borders
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
Either way it’s comforting to know our demented and worthless commander in chief will make the right callIf only he got his 10%
it Hunter on a plane yet to there for another Gas Job
Didn't Ukraine surrender all nuclear weapons in exchange for a promise of territorial integrity? If the Russians broke that agreement why wouldn't Ukraine look to join NATO?Before Soviet troops were withdrawn from Germany a pledge was made to Gorbachev that NATO will not expend to the East, not a single inch. This was argued by Russia for years and denied by the West.
To answer Russian demands in a recent speech, NATO Secretary General Stoltenberg categorically denied that such promises were ever made.
As the evidence of this pledge has emerged, Stoltenberg stands as an ARROGANT BOLDFACE LIAR.
West promised not to expand NATO – Der Spiegel
Newly discovered document proves existence of pledge not to expand NATO eastward towards Russia, proving Moscow rightwww.rt.com
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Add Finland to the "Nato" borders.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Why? They aren't a NATO country
en.wikipedia.org
Is Finland a member of NATO?
Six EU member states, all who have declared their non-alignment with military alliances, are not NATO members: Austria, Cyprus, Finland, Ireland, Malta, and Sweden. Additionally, Switzerland, which is surrounded by the EU, has also maintained their neutrality by remaining a non-EU-member.
Member states of NATO - Wikipedia
Is Finland a member of NATO?
Six EU member states, all who have declared their non-alignment with military alliances, are not NATO members: Austria, Cyprus, Finland, Ireland, Malta, and Sweden. Additionally, Switzerland, which is surrounded by the EU, has also maintained their neutrality by remaining a non-EU-member.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
In case you missed the last page
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
you can count then like if they were as they are enhance opportunity partners and they will also enforce sanctions.Why? They aren't a NATO country
Member states of NATO - Wikipedia
Is Finland a member of NATO?
Six EU member states, all who have declared their non-alignment with military alliances, are not NATO members: Austria, Cyprus, Finland, Ireland, Malta, and Sweden. Additionally, Switzerland, which is surrounded by the EU, has also maintained their neutrality by remaining a non-EU-member.
Potaito potato.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Well, yeah, but not quite NATO
The Finns and Russians never got a long well anyways.
The Finns and Russians never got a long well anyways.
spat
.950 JDJ
Think of it this way.
If you lived between an aggressive neighbor, and an alliance formed to oppose them, and that neighbor started gobbling up some of the other countries near them, is that going to make you more, or less likely to join that alliance ?
Budapest memorandum went out of the window when U.S. government violated political sovereignty of Ukraine and staged a violent coup removing democratically elected legitimate president of Ukraine thus violating two paragraphs of Budapest memorandum it co-signed.
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prambo
.475 A&M Magnum
Also posted elsewhere...
Always get a vibe with Paul Craig Roberts that he leans towards supporting Russia.
That being said, IMHO, it doesn't detract from the valid points he makes about Russia, Ukraine, and NATO.
The Washington Post: The Voice of the CIA - PaulCraigRoberts.org
Always get a vibe with Paul Craig Roberts that he leans towards supporting Russia.
That being said, IMHO, it doesn't detract from the valid points he makes about Russia, Ukraine, and NATO.
The Washington Post: The Voice of the CIA - PaulCraigRoberts.org
MothMan
.338 Win Mag
Wait, Wait,
about this BS! 
about this BS! 
Boys...
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
You forgot Poland. It also borders Russian kaliningrad
And how did we stage this violent coup all by ourselves? Did we send in the Marines? Is it possible the people of Ukraine had absolutely no desire to live under the rule of a Russian puppet and forced him out on their own?
MothMan
.338 Win Mag
Any and all news or reports about Ukraine is information warfare, agitprop and so many are scurrying down the rabbit hole that has been opened by it. 
Just like WWII, we are only taking back what was once ours.
Ukrainian people voted him in and they could have voted him out, but we staged a coup and didn't even hide it. Our participation in 2014 coup was admitted during Congressional hearings.
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holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Hes saying everything I have been saying all along!
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
The Ukrainian revolution was very shady.I remember a thread about it on here, There were pictures of people with pellet rifles and fake dying people it was really weird .
Heres a few,
Daisy 880 pellet gun
break barrel air rifle
RWS break barrel pellet rifle.
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prambo
.475 A&M Magnum
Yeah, I noticed that.
You seen to have an analytical, "research grade" bullshit detector - nailed the Scamdemic too...along with @Dr. Evil and @Bigfoot .
I'm generally not a fan of Russia (or Iran, or N. Korea, or the PRC) but, for total mendacity, it's hard to beat the trifecta - the CIA, Pravda on the Potomac and Obola's sock-puppet Joey SoftServe.
Celt
.450/400 Nitro Ex
That almost sounds sounds like when American people voted Biden in, but we know that's a farce.
Neither our government, nor EU, nor his opposition claimed that he stole presidential elections. I guess what almost sounds to you is a factual argument.
Celt
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I'll be the first to admit that my knowledge on foreign politics is extremely weak. I don't think any foreign governments claimed our election was illegitimate either, but I was just making an observation that elections should be considered questionable after what we've seen here.
I would like to get an unbiased overview of what really is going on over there. It seems everything we read in the media is propaganda and I have a hard time believing any of it.