Ukraine - Russia Conflict (Original Title: Things are heating up in the Donbass)
- Thread starter holdover
- Start date
Israel is arming the Azov neo-Nazi group in Eastern Ukraine. Apparently, the same people who accused every Trump supporter of being a Nazi suddenly are silent when an actual Nazi group is open and active in Eastern Ukraine. (They’re not the only group armed and funded by Israel)
electronicintifada.net
View attachment kaboom.MP4
Israel is arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine
Nazi group Azov is now a unit of the Ukrainian armed forces.
electronicintifada.net
View attachment kaboom.MP4
That_FNG
.308 Win
I don’t view Cuba and bay of pigs as different. Official American forces blockaded a sovereign country. Unofficial American forces invaded a sovereign country with the goal of over throwing their government. We’ve invaded plenty of countries and overthrown/eliminated/disposed of plenty of governments. No country has the right to invade another sovereign country simply because it doesn’t like the government running that country.
I was going to write some witty comment on how the US .gov is declaring war on Russian civilians, but I'll just let the article speak for itself.
www.zerohedge.com
oh, and why is the rum gone?
ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
oh, and why is the rum gone?
spat
.950 JDJ
Because appeasement is always a terrible idea.
At best it's delaying tactic to allow you to build up for a fight.
Delays like that work to Putin's advantage, not NATO's.
So, if there is to be a fight, best to have it now, when NATO is strong and Putin is weak.
Delaying the fight for 5 or 10 years by sacrificing Eastern European countries to Putin is a terrible idea. It just makes him stronger and us weaker.
He will either back down, and everyone ends up better off, or he won't, and Russia must be crushed it's that simple.
spat
.950 JDJ
We were engaged in an undeclared war at the time, and our enemy was building nuclear missile bases there.
It was as justified as our invasion of France in WWII, aka D-day.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Where the fuck do you think Russia was going with that army and that economy?
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
that is the most hypocritical thing you ever said.
Dr. Evil
20×102mm Vulcan
Zelensky should come here and work in this administration. He'd fit right in.
BerettaGuy
.308 Win
Isreal sends humanitarian aid and mobile hospitals. Some of the best in the world.
Personally, I am torn between Ukrainian babes holding AK's or Israeli women holding Tavors. Both are HOT!
Sorry children.
I am referring to actual military action, not humanitarian aid.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I've not heard of Threads, but the day after I saw as a kid and it wasn't so enjoyable. Watched it again as an adult.
Long term China is more of a threat to the US' influence for sure, but one big plus of China is they appear to act in their best interest. To achieve this they are rational. Being rational also makes their decisions more logical, understandable, and predictable. They are not good guys. I have no doubt China would kill a million of its citizens to achieve a goal they deem as important, but they will not suicide themselves.
Putin could in theory step this up with nuclear weapons and I am not sure that even if he nuked kyiv the west would respond because what do they do exactly? Nuke moscow? That seems like a bad idea. I didn't learn until recently that when Japan responded to sanctions by war it was believed by many of the leadership in japan that they had almost no chance of winning. It was not so much a gamble as a middle-finger. Russia could try that...
Putin’s Folly: A Case Study of an Inept Strategist - War on the Rocks
Editor’s note: Don’t miss our comprehensive guide to Russia’s war against Ukraine. Vladimir Putin is a bad strategist. He does not understand the
warontherocks.com
spat
.950 JDJ
We invaded France, right ? That was what D-day was all about. France was in theory a sovereign government separate from Germany at the time.
There was never a declaration of war against Vichy France, yet we conducted the largest amphibious invasion in history there.
Nobody anywhere questions the justification.
The cold war was a similar undeclared war.
Everbody on the planet knew exactly what was going on. It was a battle fought between our puppets and their puppets to avoid the main actors from turning it into a hot war and ending civilization.
So, one of our puppets invaded one of theirs in the bay of pigs. Just like the communist puppet invading our puppet in Korea a decade earlier.
And we conducted a naval blockade in the missile crisis.
Those were all minor battles in the ongoing cold war. It is a mistake to think of them as separate conflicts. Doing so would be like calling the US action in Laos a separate war than Vietnam.
In reality the entire Vietnam conflict was just one battle in the cold war.
Phazer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Dr. Evil
20×102mm Vulcan
Yeah, now let me see... where have we heard that before?
Steal2B
.700 Nitro Express
‘You’re a Guy… Go to War’ - Fleeing Ukrainian Trans Woman Turned Back
Another transgender person has been turned back by Ukrainian officials at the border and told to take up arms and fight Russia.
www.breitbart.com
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
The pic of the sign language girl is appropriate. It looks like she's laughing at Brandon.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Because?
For the record, NATO was invoked 24 hours after 911. ( but still irrelevant) And the US has bombed destroyed how many counties in the last 30 years? You want to compare records?? The US miliary world tour. I Know, I know, We kill for peace.
Why? Because you say so?
If China was going to put Nukes in Juarez , The US would not tolerate it for a minute, That is a non starter, In fact they would do the same thing they did in the Cuban missile crisis. pull them out or we will. Not only is it a historical fact. Its their policy .
In the Korean war, the US beat the living shit out of the N Koreans, China warned the US that they will not tolerate US forces on thier border and if the US invaded the north they would respond. and they did, and kicked our ass all the way to the tip of south of korea. (later on Mac Auther landed up in Inchon and pushed them back to the 38th, Its a different story, but it illustrates the same point .
Hostile troops on your border is a justification for war. Your opinion is that NATO, which was formed to protect Europe from Russia is not really hostile to Russia. Thats a nice opinion , but the Russians dont seem to think that a European army on thier border 500 miles from Moscow is a good idea. For years they have warned that this is a red line that would result in war .
NATO said go fuck yourself were doing it anyway. Putins choices were to invade now, before they are part of NATO and before NATO troops were on his border, or attack NATO troops once they were in the Ukraine and part of NATO and fight all of NATO.
If he had to go into the Ukraine he had to do it before NATO forces were there . Or he could have hypersonic missiles on his border that could hit all of eastern Russia and Moscow in less than 5 minutes. which you seem to be pretty comfortable with, The Russians are not.
the Placeing of NATO troops on his border was a direct threat to Russia , regardless of your opinion of it. the Russians disagree, they had made it very clear they would go to war.
Western propaganda will tell you it is a land grab by the largest county in the world. Bullshit. They have more land oil minerals natural gas natural resources than any country in the world. then they started a war with the most incompetent army ever seen on the modern battlefield .
They were not ready for a war and their military proves it. They were expecting an easy run through Ukraine and got caught off guard.
Plan B ? there was no plan B. Plan B now is to destroy Ukraine , in the hopes of gaining a deal with Kiev.
I dont see the Russians winning long term .
The thing is , a lot of people look just at Ukraine, as a victim of Russia , the larger picture, as joe Biden said the other day, was that we are entering a New world order. An order in which the Russians refused to join. The sanctions and the war will break the Russian economy and most like will cause the downfall Of Putin and Russia. shortly followed by the US . This has been the plan the whole time. Its the breaking of Russia and the beginning of the new order. They God damm well knew the Russians would attack. they were planning on it . They were training Ukrainian forces for years . The strain of a guerrilla war on the Russian economy with the sacntions in place is just to much , Russia will crack . And They didnt want that dam norstream pipeline because it gave economic and political strength to Russia.
And when the Russians wanted to run a pipeline through syria, they had a ''civil war"" ,they had the Saudis flood the global market with oil for years to cheapen it ,and weaken and deny Russia from from thier only export oil.
Its a global chess game in which Ukraine is only a pawn
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That_FNG
.308 Win
No it wasn’t. France had been invaded by an outside aggressor and we went in and liberated France. Cuba had not been invaded by an outside aggressor. There’s a difference between invading a country that has not attacked you and going in to assist a country who already has been invaded. I don’t care if the Soviet Union had put 10 million nuclear middles in Cuba all aimed at my house. I don’t care if the Cuban government was stabbing every Cuban citizen in the eyes with a knife. We did not have the right to try and invade cuba with unconventional forces. Cuba was a sovereign country who had not attacked the United States. I may not like what happens in another country, but I don’t have the right to preemptively invade them. If we have the right to preemptively invade a sovereign country just because we don’t like their government, then so does every other country. Does China have the right to preemptively invade America just because they don’t like our form of government?
Dr. Evil
20×102mm Vulcan
They aren't very smart. They should claim they are swimming in a women's NCAA tournament in the US.View attachment 151876
‘You’re a Guy… Go to War’ - Fleeing Ukrainian Trans Woman Turned Back
Another transgender person has been turned back by Ukrainian officials at the border and told to take up arms and fight Russia.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Putin's justification for attacking Ukraine is akin to me shooting a new neighbor's puppy because I'm afraid it will attack me when it's older. Not only is that clearly immoral but it's also very unlikely.
Anyway, in the metrics of how much putin has fucked the pooch on this one the soviet union lost 15,000 troops in Afghanistan in a decade. Putin has lost at least 2/3rd of that number in Ukraine in a month! Not only is this going badly for Russia, but it will be one of history's greatest clusterfucks. He will be judged as one of history's biggest morons at the wrong place at the wrong time, his avarice leading to the collapse of an already dying nation. Fuck him and fuck all the russians who cheer him on.
That_FNG
.308 Win
I thought this was Detroit or Niagara Falls at first and then I realized there was less destroyed buildings.
Not sure it's true but there is historical precedent. The soviets used to shoot soldiers that dared to retreat against the germans in world war 2.
www.dailymail.co.uk
Russian 'kill squads' ordered to kill defectors, writes IAN BIRRELL
IAN BIRRELL: Defections have been encouraged by the Ukrainian army with Russia now drawing up drastic measures to prevent their soldiers from leaving the battlefield.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
How do you figure US missiles and tanks and soldiers on his border is Akin to a puppy?
If you lived on the Mexican border, and there was a Chinese army and air base there, just over the border, wouldnt it occur to you just what they are doing there? What are they training for?
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holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Well I cant argue with you there. Its pretty embarrassing. As far as Mariupol, it was expected. I called it a few weeks back. Its personnel. the AZOV battalion has been fighting with them since 2014, and Russia is getting some payback Apparently there is/was a lot of mercenaries there too.
As far as being real Nazis, I dont know. I dont know if they wave that NAZI shit around to bust Russian balls or if they really are . They obviously have a beef with each other over the Donbass for the last few years.
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spat
.950 JDJ
We are discussing NATO on the Russian border, not the US. Russia specifically said NATO. They did not say US.
So the US adventurism that did not occur under the NATO umbrella is irrelevant.
If hostile troops on your border is justification for war, then NATO would be fully justified in invading Ukraine now to kick the Russians out, right ?
Also, just because you issue some bullshit ultimatum doesn't give you justification when your opponent ignores it.
If the US said "pull all your troops out of Ukraine by the weekend or we will eliminate any russian vehicle larger than a bicycle this side of the Ukrainian border, would that justify a massive air assault Saturday morning ?
A lot of what you are saying about globalism is correct. I think they baited Putin into this mess. I think Biden's handlers orchestrated the entire thing, and are directly responsible for the invasion. That doesn't mean it was justified. That means it was stupid.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Yeah, but whos weapons and soldiers will be there? predominately US. and a token contingent of of NATO
Hideing behind the umbrella of NATO isn't going to make US cruise missiles and tanks any less scary. They can cook up an excuse in 15 minutes, run it on the TV for 2 weeks and they got themselves a war.
An argument can be made for it ,Yes. In fact you can hear it in the media with the ""planned Russian attack " on Poland and Moldova. They cant even handle Ukraine right now. The last thing Russia wants/needs right now Is a war with NATO . After their stellar performance recently.
Sooner or later NATO may jump into this fight.
Your looking at this through the lens of a sovereign country doing what they want and no one has any right to tell them what to do. I get it.
Thats the idea , not the reality. The reality is that weapons on Russia's borders do impose a threat. As a direct threat , they are going to take action against it . Thats the reality. The enemy gets a vote on whether they will tolerate that or not. You say its not justified, I say it is . just a difference of opinion on that , a judgement call.
Considering the condition of the Russian military, the Salvation army is a threat, maybe they knew it .
It could. Its all how you sell it.
I very much think so . they knew exactly what the response would be, it was never a secret. They never once tried to de-escalate it, but in fact pushed it. the game is to break Russia , Ukraine is just the tool to do it with.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Lawmakers, Yellen mull freezing Russian gold reserves
A bipartisan group of senators is working with the Treasury Department to prevent Russia from liquidating its giant stash of gold, potentially blocking one of the Kremlin's last methods for circumventing punishing financial sanctions.
www.foxbusiness.com
| US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen will meet this week with a bipartisan group of senators to discuss the possibility of freezing Russia's $132 billion in gold reserves, the news website Axios reported on Wednesday. Maine Senator Angus King reportedly has claimed that the legislation could pass the Senate as early as this week. The initiative is meant to deprive Moscow of the opportunity to mitigate the effects of Western sanctions on its economy by monetizing other assets, in an effort to punish the Kremlin for its military action in Ukraine. “Russia’s massive gold supply is one of the few remaining assets that Putin can use to keep his country’s economy from falling even further. By sanctioning these reserves, we will further isolate Russia from the world’s economy and increase the difficulty of Putin’s increasingly-costly military campaign,” King explained. |
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