Ukraine - Russia Conflict (Original Title: Things are heating up in the Donbass)

Blimey

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GOPerfect said:
Historians puzzled at how Mosul Iraq, a city of 3 million, was flattened twice with American airstrikes in 2003 and 2017, without a single photograph of dead bodies being published.
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I don't even need to google "2003 mosul civilian deaths" to know with 100% confidence it will identify photographs of civilian deaths from mosul from 2003.
 
Blimey

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Most people see a fascist orwellian state (Russia is using 1984 as a textbook) invading a neighbor and immediately know it's a bad idea. Why is the fringe right having such a hard time?

I am nonetheless cheered to see that 88.5% of people on this forum are team ukraine:

Russia or the Ukraine? Which side do you support?

Inflation is because of the war, gas prices is because of the war, it will solve a lot of Biden’s problems and people here will eat it up. Exactly what he said this morning.
nygunforum.com nygunforum.com

This matches almost perfectly what Brookings has found polling American views of Ukraine:
www.brookings.edu

What do Americans think of the Russia-Ukraine war and of the US response? | Brookings

The Russian invasion of Ukraine has generated much debate in America, not only about what how the U.S. should respond, but also about the extent to which the invasion represents a threat to democracy. Shibley Telhami set out to probe public perceptions of these issues in a new poll.
www.brookings.edu www.brookings.edu

ukrainepoll.png
 
GOPerfect

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Blimey said:
I don't even need to google "2003 mosul civilian deaths" to know with 100% confidence it will identify photographs of civilian deaths from mosul from 2003.
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But, they would need to be researched

This little war, they are everywhere. All part of the propaganda. Loaded up on the nightly news. Posted on every site, in news papers; everywhere.

Most cannot understand that this is all part of the propaganda.
 
Blimey

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GOPerfect said:
Interesting video.

Still unsure of the truths. This appears truth filled.
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Understand that our resident communist referred to gulags as a positive place to get "lots of fresh air and exercise".

Putin Gets it. ( far-left woke ideology that he said is causing societal ills throughout the Western world)

“We see with bemusement the paralysis unfolding in countries that have grown accustomed to viewing themselves as the flagships of progress, Of course, it’s none of our business or what is happening, the social and cultural shocks that are happening in some countries in the Western countries...
nygunforum.com nygunforum.com

He is systemically incapable of even holding a negative thought about soviets/russia/communists.
 
spat

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Blimey said:
Get a nice big poster on a tall stick that says "The president is garbage, and a liar." Now stand in front of the white house with it. Tell me how long it takes to get arrested.
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We aren't too far from the point where you could lose your job and ostracized from society for doing that. Certainly for many people if the sign said "only women can get pregnant" that could happen.

Just because we haven't gone full Ingsoc yet doesn't mean we aren't 3/4 of the way there and falling fast.
 
prambo

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Another viewpoint...

The Curious Butchers of Bucha

"On the butchers of Bucha, who really knows if anything happened there but it’s probably best when in doubt, to resort to the first two Good Citizen Rules.

The first words ever written and posted to this site:

  1. Don’t believe anything your government tells you.
  2. Don’t believe anything the western corporate media tells you.
This goes doubly in times of war.

The fog of war always produces the foggiest of war propaganda.

Time will tell the truth. It usually does.

Will the western media correct their lies?

They usually don’t."
 
TEOTWAWKI inc.

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Blimey said:
This is not something to be proud of. If you cannot put trust in others how can you navigate the world? You have to identify those who trust, put them on a scale of legitimacy if you like, and move ahead. If you deny anything you've not seen with your own eyes how do you believe anything in history? Did any of it happen? Is Biden the president? Do the great pyramids exist? Is Tom Cruise a real person?

Here is drone footage of fascists using an auto-cannon on somebody on a bicycle:

Here is video of facists after murdering civilians:

Here is a boy whose mother was murdered by fascists:
View attachment 153376

Or you can take the nihilistic view that none of this is true and none of it matters.
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I think you made my point better than I did. If you are looking for "war crimes", it's not hard to find them. I need more than a sensational headline, or a picture/video that lacks context before I come to a logical conclusion.

Video #:
1. What did the guy do before he entered the frame, where was he going, who was he?
2. Gruesome, no doubt. Again, who are they, what events led to this outcome.
3. I bet they raped her before they killed her, right? How do you even know its his mom? It could have been a neighbor that committed suicide because they couldn't stand to live in the world depicted in the headlines of the first two videos.
 
H

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Blimey said:
This is not something to be proud of. If you cannot put trust in others how can you navigate the world? You have to identify those who trust, put them on a scale of legitimacy if you like, and move ahead. If you deny anything you've not seen with your own eyes how do you believe anything in history? Did any of it happen? Is Biden the president? Do the great pyramids exist? Is Tom Cruise a real person?

Here is drone footage of fascists using an auto-cannon on somebody on a bicycle:

Here is video of facists after murdering civilians:

Here is a boy whose mother was murdered by fascists:
View attachment 153376

Or you can take the nihilistic view that none of this is true and none of it matters.
Click to expand...


I dont know if the videos and pics are as stated. they could be. they could also be misleading. Since this is a war crime, We should look at it through the eyes of our own justice system , Is there any reasonable doubt?

The video of the man on bike for instance. Can you identify the vehicles? Both Russians and Ukrainians use the same ones? Can anyone positively ID them ? Can We tell the date place and time of video? Was the man armed? Did he fire ? Did you see anyone killed? Do you see a body? Why was a drone watching him? In the burned bodies videos , Were the bodies Russian or Ukrainian? Were thier women or children in the piles? Did the locals decide to burn the dead because they had no means of burying them? Could the Ukrainian army have arrested Russian collaborators and executed them for helping the Russians?

I can go on and on, but the point is We dont have the information to determine what happened. Maybe your right, But because of the nature of the information war , I have to hold my answer in reserve. I honestly dont know. Then there is the source itself, Ukraine, and the media has been caught lying multiple times, The US media lies about every war we were ever in , and the Ukraine, NATO and Russia all have motive to lie and have all lied in the past.

What I do know is that the media is full of misrepresentation and lies , pictures showing the same tanks destroyed last week , recently destroyed tanks, trucks covered in rust .

War crimes happen, So its entirely possible they are what they claim to be. Whats not possible from the pics is who did what when.

Im not convinced.
 
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1341

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livingston said:
When Ukraine handed out rifles to civilians to fight the Russians then lines are blurred as far as civilian deaths are concerned . Does that status change if one holds the rifle in the morning and walks around without one in the afternoon ?
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Off course the status changes, however as a uniformed soldier you can't go around and shoot any civilian in the afternoon you see just because they may have had a gun in the morning. If you do that then you are a war criminal, correct?
 
spat

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1341 said:
Off course the status changes, however as a uniformed soldier you can't go around and shoot any civilian in the afternoon you see just because they may have had a gun in the morning. If you do that then you are a war criminal, correct?
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Attempts to civilize war by declaring things "war crimes" are futile, and counter productive.

War is not civil. The less messy it is the more likely we are to have more.

The hypocrisy about "war crimes" is that generally they aren't crimes if your side wins.

So, there aren't crimes, just good tactics and bad. Generally targeting bystanders is bad tactics, that is all.
 
GOPerfect

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Blimey said:
This is not something to be proud of. If you cannot put trust in others how can you navigate the world? You have to identify those who trust, put them on a scale of legitimacy if you like, and move ahead. If you deny anything you've not seen with your own eyes how do you believe anything in history? Did any of it happen? Is Biden the president? Do the great pyramids exist? Is Tom Cruise a real person?

Here is drone footage of fascists using an auto-cannon on somebody on a bicycle:

Here is video of facists after murdering civilians:

Here is a boy whose mother was murdered by fascists:
View attachment 153376

Or you can take the nihilistic view that none of this is true and none of it matters.
Click to expand...
I do not doubt for a moment that what you have posted is true.

But, I have questions. In the Drone video, what was they guy on the bike doing? Was he preparing to attack the Soldiers?

The second video of the burnt peoples, who did the burning and why? How do we know it was the Russians? Maybe it was the Ukrainians.

Who killed the boys mother? Pictures are awesome, but without facts and data, real data, they are nothing.
 
Acer-m14

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Blimey said:
This is not something to be proud of. If you cannot put trust in others how can you navigate the world? You have to identify those who trust, put them on a scale of legitimacy if you like, and move ahead. If you deny anything you've not seen with your own eyes how do you believe anything in history? Did any of it happen? Is Biden the president? Do the great pyramids exist? Is Tom Cruise a real person?

Here is drone footage of fascists using an auto-cannon on somebody on a bicycle:

Here is video of facists after murdering civilians:

Here is a boy whose mother was murdered by fascists:
View attachment 153376

Or you can take the nihilistic view that none of this is true and none of it matters.
Click to expand...

where are the photos of them digging the hole for his mom and placing her ?
 
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