Ukraine - Russia Conflict (Original Title: Things are heating up in the Donbass)

[Steal2B]

I don't know what information they had, what information they were given and what information they used to make their decisions. I think they should see now it was wrong. Trump rolled out a red carpet in Ankorage and then stabbed them in the back by not honoring the agreement that was made there, denying it was an agreement.

Bullshit. Putin stabbed Trump in the back.

Trump for years balked at American support for Ukraine and Trump pledged to bring about an end to the war. After berating Zelenskyy in the Oval Office and cutting back military assistance to Kyiv, Putin even refused a pause the fighting.

In August 2025 in Anchorage Trump handed Putin's ego the long-sought recognition on the international stage (after years of Western efforts to make him a pariah over attacks on Ukraine and Putin's vicioud rackdown on dissent) and Trump forestalled threats of additional U.S. sanctions on the Russian economy.

In return Putin belittled Trumps deal making skills when Putin threw a hissey fit like a little bitch, cutting the meeting short and leaving.

Early in the tense meeting Trump and Rubio balked after Putin insisted any deal must permanently cement all Russia’s gains, forever block Kyiv’s bid to join the NATO military alliance, and pull a subservient Ukraine back into Moscow’s orbit. Putin then started screaming a lengthy historical lecture on Russia and Ukraine that consumed much of the tense three hour meeting, prompting Trump to raise his voice. It was then Putin called to cut short the meeting, insisted on cancelling the planned joint press conference, refused to take questions during his departure, cancelled Russian participation for the planned extended lunch and broader delegation meetings on shared economic interests. Cancelling the rest of the Agenda was the only changes from the meeting Trump and Putin agreed with.

A sour Putin and a sour Trump both uncerimoniouly boarded their aircraft ahead of schedule and left.

There were no fruitful agreements or promises. Nothing was changed by this meeting except Putin got his grand stage entrance he so longed for.

It's fair to say the only party to benefit from the August 2025 summit was Putin's selfish ego. Russia, Ukraine, the US, and even Trump's PR team gained nothing from the summit.

Trump leaves Alaska summit with Putin empty-handed after failing to reach a deal to end Ukraine war

President Donald Trump has failed to secure an agreement from Vladimir Putin to end Russia’s war in Ukraine, falling short in his most significant move yet to stop the bloodshed, even after rolling out the red carpet for the man who started it.

apnews.com

 

[Mosinitis]

They agreed on Donbas going to Russia.

 

[Steal2B]

They agreed on Donbas going to Russia.

 

[spat]

They agreed on Donbas going to Russia.

In exchange for what ?

Russia demanding something isn't an agreement.

And it's only a double cross if one side does their part and the other side doesn't.

So, what was the US supposed to get in exchange for Ukraine giving up the Donbass ?

And why would the US be in a position to give up Ukranian territory anyway ?

Maybe we should hold some talks with Ukraine and agree to give them Crimea in exchange for some oil and gas leases LOL.

 

[Mosinitis]

In exchange for what ?

Russia demanding something isn't an agreement.

And it's only a double cross if one side does their part and the other side doesn't.

So, what was the US supposed to get in exchange for Ukraine giving up the Donbass ?

And why would the US be in a position to give up Ukranian territory anyway ?

Maybe we should hold some talks with Ukraine and agree to give them Crimea in exchange for some oil and gas leases LOL.

It doesn't matter. Ukraine categorically refused no matter what and made it a none-starter. That being the case the pressure should have been on Ukraine. Trump continued arming Ukraine claiming it was Europeans and gave green light to Ukraine to escalate the attacks.

 

[spat]

It doesn't matter. Ukraine categorically refused no matter what and made it a none-starter. That being the case the pressure should have been on Ukraine. Trump continued arming Ukraine claiming it was Europeans and gave green light to Ukraine to escalate the attacks.

So, no agreement to anything then.

I don't understand how you guys keep thinking that "Russia demanded something" constitutes an agreement.

"we'll give up our nukes and you guys promise to defend us" is an agreement. We see who got double crossed by who there.

The long term answer for Ukraine at this point is simple. Russia has left them no options other than NATO membership, or become a nuclear power again.

If I was Zelensky, I would absolutely announce that they are withdrawing from the non-proliferation treaty and beginning development. If you don't want us to do that, then help us push the Russians back to their own borders.

 

[Mosinitis]

So, no agreement to anything then.

I don't understand how you guys keep thinking that "Russia demanded something" constitutes an agreement.

"we'll give up our nukes and you guys promise to defend us" is an agreement. We see who got double crossed by who there.

The long term answer for Ukraine at this point is simple. Russia has left them no options other than NATO membership, or become a nuclear power again.

If I was Zelensky, I would absolutely announce that they are withdrawing from the non-proliferation treaty and beginning development. If you don't want us to do that, then help us push the Russians back to their own borders.

The proposal came from the U.S. Russia agreed, that's an agreement. Ukraine refused categorically. There was no agreement with Ukraine, but there was one between U.S. and Russia. Trump and Rubio are backpedaling.

 

[Steal2B]

The proposal came from the U.S. Russia agreed, that's an agreement. Ukraine refused categorically. There was no agreement with Ukraine, but there was one between U.S. and Russia. Trump and Rubio are backpedaling.

Stop the made up Bullshit

There were 6 men negotiating in the room (Putin, Lavrov, Ushakov, Trump, Rubio, Witkoff)

A few support people

You were not one of them

No Ukranians were there either

Putin made demands, Trump and Rubio balked, Putin lost it, Trump yelled at him, Putin went home.

Just because Lavrov was whining generic bullshit in a propaganda news piece yesterday in Russia’s state-run TASS news agency mean that you can make some shit up.

 

[Mosinitis]

Stop the made up Bullshit

There were 6 men negotiating in the room (Putin, Lavrov, Ushakov, Trump, Rubio, Witkoff)

A few support people

You were not one of them

No Ukranians were there either

Putin made demands, Trump and Rubio balked, Putin lost it, Trump yelled at him, Putin went home.

They had a televised press conference at the end and complimented each other on making progress.

 

[Steal2B]

They had a televised press conference at the end and complimented each other on making progress.

Show us the August 2025 press conference you speak of where is says the US proposed that the Donbas (some of which was occupied by Ukranian Forces by the way) would be seceded to Russia.

The actual scheduled press conference with reporters being invited to discuss the "progress" was cancelled and replaced by some mutually agreed comments formulated by staff.

Please show us this press conference where the cessation of the Donbass proposal is mentioned.

It's funny you're spouting this bullshit one day after the Lavrov TASS propaganda spin piece about a meeting almost a year ago.

 

[spat]

They had a televised press conference at the end and complimented each other on making progress.

So, the only thing they actually agreed on was that they were "making progress".

Sounds like they were just all mistaken.

No actual deal for anyone to do anything.

 

[Mosinitis]

Show us the August 2025 press conference you speak of where is says the US proposed that the Donbas (some of which was occupied by Ukranian Forces by the way) would be seceded to Russia.

The actual scheduled press conference with reporters being invited to discuss the "progress" was cancelled and replaced by some mutually agreed comments formulated by staff.

Please show us this press conference where the cessation of the Donbass proposal is mentioned.

It's funny you're spouting this bullshit one day after the Lavrov TASS propaganda spin piece about a meeting almost a year ago.

It disputes your claim that they left on bad terms.

 

[spat]

The proposal came from the U.S. Russia agreed, that's an agreement. Ukraine refused categorically. There was no agreement with Ukraine, but there was one between U.S. and Russia. Trump and Rubio are backpedaling.

The proposal for what ?

"Ukraine should just give up" isn't an agreement. Especially when the conference was just the US and Russia.

Maybe we should have a meeting with just us France and we can all agree that Putin should just fuck off back home.

Would you call that "an agreement", and who's at fault when Russia doesn't go ?

 

[Mosinitis]

So, the only thing they actually agreed on was that they were "making progress".

Sounds like they were just all mistaken.

No actual deal for anyone to do anything.

U.S. as a mediator had to get Ukraine on board and it failed. There was no peace deal because Ukraine didn't agree to what U.S. proposed and Russia agreed to.

 

[holdover]

The proposal for what ?

"Ukraine should just give up" isn't an agreement. Especially when the conference was just the US and Russia.

the US was trying to mediate an agreement , nothing was set in stone . They had to hear the Russian terms for a cease fire . it was unacceptable to the west, and no cease fire was had.


Thing is, Once Ukraine did get a cease fire the west would have allowed them into NATO in aa late night vote , and begin to move NATO troops into Ukraiune ASAP. It would be difficult for Russia to do anything about it except possibly A nuclear strike .

 

[spat]

the US was trying to mediate an agreement , nothing was set in stone . They had to hear the Russian terms for a cease fire . it was unacceptable to the west, and no cease fire was had.

Then how was this statement of yours remotely accurate ?

Trump rolled out a red carpet in Ankorage and then stabbed them in the back by not honoring the agreement that was made there, denying it was an agreement.

The US "Stabbed them in the back" by doing what ? Not agreeing to ridiculous one sided demands for a conflict they aren't even directly involved in ?

 

[Steal2B]

U.S. as a mediator had to get Ukraine on board and it failed. There was no peace deal because Ukraine didn't agree to what U.S. proposed and Russia agreed to.

I have an almost absolute certainty of what transpired in the six man negotiations from Alaska (short of being there or abusing relationships for details I only have a casual interest. )

It is my understanding the territorial framework proposals that started to be discussed (which never included the whole of Dombas) never progressed due to Putin's uncontrollable need to lecture his version of history in anger. Trump could not take Putin's bullshit show any longer and the meeting fell apart. It was loud and ugly. The economic frameworks did not even get to table. When you get a narcissist (but genuine patriot with empathy) in a room with another narcissist (who paranoid, psycopathic, and anti-social) tempers are expected to flare when they are not in agreement.

Disclaimer: There was a time I assumed Mosinitis was just a planted Russian bot or hacker and blocked the user ... but after learning otherwise (some shooting friends swear he [I'm assuming pronouns] is a decent guy and great shooter) it's hard to believe some of the direct Russian propaganda sourced bullshit and comments to others he posts on this fine forum.

 

[holdover]

Then how was this statement of yours remotely accurate ?

what statement?

 

[holdover]

Then how was this statement of yours remotely accurate ?



The US "Stabbed them in the back" by doing what ? Not agreeing to ridiculous one sided demands for a conflict they aren't even directly involved in ?

I dont know, I never said that.

 

[holdover]

I never followed it that close. they had a meeting and nothing happened , Thats all I really know about it

 

[Steal2B]

It disputes your claim that they left on bad terms.

Lol. Both parties were yelling and heated during the meeting. The press conference was called off and Putin was visibly pissed on US news cameras as he was leaving.

Trump and Putin believe they mutually need each other to be successful and take their political roles very seriously. Do not exaggerate their symbolic shaking hands, exchanging brief lukewarm pleasantries, and posing for a publicity photo as the meeting went well or the US proposed gifting Russia all of the Donbas, shit Ukraine was still occupying part of Dombas. It did not go down that way.

Putin appears to be visibly annoyed as reporters barrage him and Trump with questions

Russian President Vladimir Putin seemed frustrated as reporters shouted questions at him and President Donald Trump. While the two did not reach a deal on Friday, world leaders still saw the meeting as a success.

www.foxnews.com

 

[spat]

the US was trying to mediate an agreement , nothing was set in stone . They had to hear the Russian terms for a cease fire . it was unacceptable to the west, and no cease fire was had.


Thing is, Once Ukraine did get a cease fire the west would have allowed them into NATO in aa late night vote , and begin to move NATO troops into Ukraiune ASAP. It would be difficult for Russia to do anything about it except possibly A nuclear strike .

Then how was this statement of yours remotely accurate ?

. I think they should see now it was wrong. Trump rolled out a red carpet in Ankorage

I dont know, I never said that.

Sorry, I'm not sure how I replied to your post with Mosin's quote.

 

[Steal2B]

Both sides still trading blows, it's fair to say both countries are paying a dear price.

Ukraine war briefing: Kyiv hit with ballistic missiles, as civilians killed by drone strikes in Russia

Latest attack follows civilian deaths on both sides of Russia-Ukraine border on Saturday. What we know on day 1,586

www.theguardian.com

Ukraine hits defence plant in Russia’s Volgograd region, Zelenskyy says

Ukraine has intensified mid- and long-range drone attacks on Russian oil facilities and ‌weapon ⁠production in recent months in response to Russia’s devastating strikes on the capital Kyiv.

www.nbcnews.com

Ukraine strikes industrial facility in Russia's Volgograd as Russian drone attack kills 1

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Ukraine has struck a major industrial facility in the Russian city of Volgograd.

apnews.com

https://www.cnn.com/2026/06/27/europe/drone-artillery-ukraine-russia-latam-intl

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, June 26, 2026

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky announced that he authorized a 40-day strike campaign to influence Russia to end the war in Ukraine.

understandingwar.org

 

[Steal2B]

Russia Permanently Stations Its Most Powerful Nuclear Combat Ship at Strategic Arctic Facility: Admiral Nakhimov Positioned For Submarine Defence https://share.google/dFS615O6g2sYXaZ5J



From the Kola Peninsula, Russian warships can rapidly reach the Greenland-Iceland-United Kingdom Gap, which is a key maritime choke point between the Arctic and the North Atlantic.

Soviet naval strategy envisions refurbished Kirov class cruisers leading task groups through this region to challenge NATO carrier forces and threaten Atlantic sea lines of communication.

 

[tirwin1]

Both sides still trading blows, it's fair to say both countries are paying a dear price.

Ukraine war briefing: Kyiv hit with ballistic missiles, as civilians killed by drone strikes in Russia

Latest attack follows civilian deaths on both sides of Russia-Ukraine border on Saturday. What we know on day 1,586

www.theguardian.com

Ukraine hits defence plant in Russia’s Volgograd region, Zelenskyy says

Ukraine has intensified mid- and long-range drone attacks on Russian oil facilities and ‌weapon ⁠production in recent months in response to Russia’s devastating strikes on the capital Kyiv.

www.nbcnews.com

Ukraine strikes industrial facility in Russia's Volgograd as Russian drone attack kills 1

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Ukraine has struck a major industrial facility in the Russian city of Volgograd.

apnews.com

https://www.cnn.com/2026/06/27/europe/drone-artillery-ukraine-russia-latam-intl

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, June 26, 2026

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky announced that he authorized a 40-day strike campaign to influence Russia to end the war in Ukraine.

understandingwar.org

Continues to remind me of world war one. Massive casualties, little movement in the front lines but neither side willing to blink. How long before we see revolts in the ranks?

 

[Steal2B]

Continues to remind me of world war one. Massive casualties, little movement in the front lines but neither side willing to blink. How long before we see revolts in the ranks?

 

[holdover]

Looks like 2 exhausted boxers in the 22nd round, and neither can finish the other

 

[holdover]

The population of Russia in 2026 is estimated to be approximately 143.4 million people, ranking as the 9th most populous country in the world

In 2026, the male population in Russia aged 19 to 50 is estimated to be roughly 18 to 19 million.

How many men aged 18 to 50 in Russia?


AI Overview


The total male population in Russia aged 18 to 50 is estimated to be approximately 31 million. This cohort makes up roughly one-fifth of Russia's total population of about 143 to 146 million, with the prime working-age group (25-54) accounting for slightly over 30 million males on its own

and if you really get down to it, 16 and 17 year old can fight, plus they have a tradition of women snipers pilots . I dont think they really have a man power issue ,

 

[Steal2B]

A quick internet check makes it sure look like Russia's has military manpower problems fueled by soaring body bag counts and attrition with some units reduced to 30% to 40% of their authorized troop strength.

There are plummeting volunteer rates (in spite signing bonuses / debt relief packages that can exceed $100,000) volunteer contract recruitment dropped by roughly a third.

There is a noted decline in troop quality due to the inability to recruit enough willing trained soldiers. This has forced the military to lower standards, shorten / gut training cycles, rely on convicts, and even implement some forced enlistments from the streets and traffic checkpoints to fill gaps.

The demand for bodies has pulled hundreds of thousands of fighting-age men out of the domestic workforce, triggering a severe labor shortage and fueling inflation.

To sustain the Ukraine conflict, Putin has already been forced to start politically unpopular options, including renewed mass mobilization drives and relying on foreign fighters.

 

[holdover]

A quick internet check makes it sure look like Russia's has military manpower problems fueled by soaring body bag counts and attrition with some units reduced to 30% to 40% of their authorized troop strength.

There are plummeting volunteer rates (in spite signing bonuses / debt relief packages that can exceed $100,000) volunteer contract recruitment dropped by roughly a third.

There is a noted decline in troop quality due to the inability to recruit enough willing trained soldiers. This has forced the military to lower standards, shorten / gut training cycles, rely on convicts, and even implement some forced enlistments from the streets and traffic checkpoints to fill gaps.

The demand for bodies has pulled hundreds of thousands of fighting-age men out of the domestic workforce, triggering a severe labor shortage and fueling inflation.

To sustain the Ukraine conflict, Putin has already been forced to start politically unpopular options, including renewed mass mobilization drives and relying on foreign fighters.

I dont disagree with most of this ,but I dont think its AS big a problem as its being made out to be. the war has been taking its toll thats for sure . and of the 2 , I think Ukraine is suffering a much worse manpower problem. Russia is still taking ground ,but they are going to have to walk to Kiev